Oil pressure warning light on '95 Voyager w/ 3.0L

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Jeff Wieland wrote:

> The engine sounds normal. I'd really expect to hear the lifters
> clattering if there were no oil pressure.

Exactly.

> Hmmm. The oil was just changed last Friday, and a Mopar filter was
> used.

=Fram. Go get a different brand.

> Yep, I know. I've had trouble finding someone who knows their way
> around a Mopar (especially a Mopar with a Mitsubishi engine).

That's a little difficult for me to believe. There are millions of Mopars
with Mitsubishi engines on North American (South American, Middle Eastern,
European) roads. They're practically as common as Chevrolet Caprices with
305 V8s were a decade ago.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:12:56 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Jeff Wieland wrote:
>
>> We're 200 miles from home tonight with an erratic low oil pressure light
>> on our '95 Voyager, 3.0L, with 110,000 miles. The repair manual and
>> virtually all of my tools are 200 miles away :-(. The light goes on and
>> out. I do not hear any clattering or ticking like I'd expect to hear if
>> the oil pressure were truly low. I'm thinking that it's likely to be
>> the oil pressure sending unit. On a Sunday, I *might* be able to get a
>> new unit and the appropriate socket. Is it likely to be the sending
>> unit?
>
>Yes, it's likely just to be the sending unit or the wire. If the oil
>pressure were truly low, you'd be hearing expensive noises. Furthermore,
>if there were truly "intermittent" low oil pressure, it would occur either
>only at low RPMs (loose internal clearances and/or weak oil pump and/or
>stuck-open oil pressure regulator valve) or only at high RPMs
>(partially-clogged oil uptake screen or pipe, sagged oil filter element
>endcap). If you're driving along and getting a random intermittent oil
>pressure light, it's probably because the sender's flaky or the wire is
>intermittently grounding.
>
>Me, I'd just go have the oil and filter changed (with a quality filter, to
>eliminate the chance of filter problems), unplug the sender and drive
>home, then diagnose and fix it there.
>
>> Should I just wait until Monday to get it to the Dodge dealer where I
>> am?
>
>The dealer? I'd never take an out-of-warranty vehicle to the dealer for
>service.
>
>DS


I did have one experience with an early 3.0 Dodge van where the oil
light came on at highway speed and would (usually) go out when the
engine was slowed down. A light valve clatter started about when the
light came on, and went away seconds after the light went off. Oil
level was right on the full mark. The engine had 200 Km on a fresh oil
change.

When I checked the dipstick, the oil was thin as water.
I limped it in to the nearest garage and had the oil changed. Put in
Castrol oil to replace the cheap Penzoil that was in it, and never had
another problem. Almost 3000 Km in one week of driving.

As for taking OOW vehicles to the dealer for service, it depends an
awfull lot on the dealer, and who else is available.

When I was service manager at a dealership (toyota) our 3 year
weighted retention rate was consistently between 70% and 110% -
(meaning we were servicing, on a regular basis, between 70% and 110%
of the number of vehicles we had sold over the last three years) - so
there were a LOT of people who felt it was worth while returning their
out of warranty Toyotas to OUR dealership for service. Lots who
wouldn't take their car to the dealer they bought it from, but
preferred to have my mechanics work on it for them.
My mechanics were NOT paid flat rate, were all well trained, and the
customer was ALWAYS treated fairly. If the Boss thought I was doing
too much for the customer, he was free to get rid of me and find
someone who would make more money for him. I lasted 10 years. In that
10 years the service department made the owner over a million dollars.

After 10 years, we parted ways, the shop went to Flat Rate, a lot of
customers became unhappy and left. I imagine the next ten years made
him another million. I know a much larger percentage of the work was
vehicles under warranty. I suspect the retention rate got a lot closer
to the national average, which was, at the time, somewhare under 50%.

That said, a GOOD independent shop is very often a better deal, all
around, for routine maintenance, than the dealership.
Sadly, GOOD independent shops are every bit as hard to find as GOOD
dealerships.

And the good independents are finding it harder every year to get and
keep good techs.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:12:56 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Jeff Wieland wrote:
>
>> We're 200 miles from home tonight with an erratic low oil pressure light
>> on our '95 Voyager, 3.0L, with 110,000 miles. The repair manual and
>> virtually all of my tools are 200 miles away :-(. The light goes on and
>> out. I do not hear any clattering or ticking like I'd expect to hear if
>> the oil pressure were truly low. I'm thinking that it's likely to be
>> the oil pressure sending unit. On a Sunday, I *might* be able to get a
>> new unit and the appropriate socket. Is it likely to be the sending
>> unit?
>
>Yes, it's likely just to be the sending unit or the wire. If the oil
>pressure were truly low, you'd be hearing expensive noises. Furthermore,
>if there were truly "intermittent" low oil pressure, it would occur either
>only at low RPMs (loose internal clearances and/or weak oil pump and/or
>stuck-open oil pressure regulator valve) or only at high RPMs
>(partially-clogged oil uptake screen or pipe, sagged oil filter element
>endcap). If you're driving along and getting a random intermittent oil
>pressure light, it's probably because the sender's flaky or the wire is
>intermittently grounding.
>
>Me, I'd just go have the oil and filter changed (with a quality filter, to
>eliminate the chance of filter problems), unplug the sender and drive
>home, then diagnose and fix it there.
>
>> Should I just wait until Monday to get it to the Dodge dealer where I
>> am?
>
>The dealer? I'd never take an out-of-warranty vehicle to the dealer for
>service.
>
>DS


I did have one experience with an early 3.0 Dodge van where the oil
light came on at highway speed and would (usually) go out when the
engine was slowed down. A light valve clatter started about when the
light came on, and went away seconds after the light went off. Oil
level was right on the full mark. The engine had 200 Km on a fresh oil
change.

When I checked the dipstick, the oil was thin as water.
I limped it in to the nearest garage and had the oil changed. Put in
Castrol oil to replace the cheap Penzoil that was in it, and never had
another problem. Almost 3000 Km in one week of driving.

As for taking OOW vehicles to the dealer for service, it depends an
awfull lot on the dealer, and who else is available.

When I was service manager at a dealership (toyota) our 3 year
weighted retention rate was consistently between 70% and 110% -
(meaning we were servicing, on a regular basis, between 70% and 110%
of the number of vehicles we had sold over the last three years) - so
there were a LOT of people who felt it was worth while returning their
out of warranty Toyotas to OUR dealership for service. Lots who
wouldn't take their car to the dealer they bought it from, but
preferred to have my mechanics work on it for them.
My mechanics were NOT paid flat rate, were all well trained, and the
customer was ALWAYS treated fairly. If the Boss thought I was doing
too much for the customer, he was free to get rid of me and find
someone who would make more money for him. I lasted 10 years. In that
10 years the service department made the owner over a million dollars.

After 10 years, we parted ways, the shop went to Flat Rate, a lot of
customers became unhappy and left. I imagine the next ten years made
him another million. I know a much larger percentage of the work was
vehicles under warranty. I suspect the retention rate got a lot closer
to the national average, which was, at the time, somewhare under 50%.

That said, a GOOD independent shop is very often a better deal, all
around, for routine maintenance, than the dealership.
Sadly, GOOD independent shops are every bit as hard to find as GOOD
dealerships.

And the good independents are finding it harder every year to get and
keep good techs.

In article ch.edu> "Daniel J. Stern" > writes:
>On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Jeff Wieland wrote:
>
>> The engine sounds normal. I'd really expect to hear the lifters
>> clattering if there were no oil pressure.
>
>Exactly.
>
>> Hmmm. The oil was just changed last Friday, and a Mopar filter was
>> used.
>
>=Fram. Go get a different brand.

Seriously?? I've heard the critisms of Fram, but I didn't know
that's what Chrysler is using. Damn... That's what I've got on
my Neon R/T, too.

>> Yep, I know. I've had trouble finding someone who knows their way
>> around a Mopar (especially a Mopar with a Mitsubishi engine).
>
>That's a little difficult for me to believe. There are millions of Mopars
>with Mitsubishi engines on North American (South American, Middle Eastern,
>European) roads. They're practically as common as Chevrolet Caprices with
>305 V8s were a decade ago.

In article ch.edu> "Daniel J. Stern" > writes:
>On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Jeff Wieland wrote:
>
>> The engine sounds normal. I'd really expect to hear the lifters
>> clattering if there were no oil pressure.
>
>Exactly.
>
>> Hmmm. The oil was just changed last Friday, and a Mopar filter was
>> used.
>
>=Fram. Go get a different brand.

Seriously?? I've heard the critisms of Fram, but I didn't know
that's what Chrysler is using. Damn... That's what I've got on
my Neon R/T, too.

>> Yep, I know. I've had trouble finding someone who knows their way
>> around a Mopar (especially a Mopar with a Mitsubishi engine).
>
>That's a little difficult for me to believe. There are millions of Mopars
>with Mitsubishi engines on North American (South American, Middle Eastern,
>European) roads. They're practically as common as Chevrolet Caprices with
>305 V8s were a decade ago.

you have that right about an out-of-warranty vehicle to the dealer.
you don't even get a kiss with the screwing you'll take.
remember, tho, the 3.0 is the mitsu and they can be a real pain.
if it only comes on at idle, i'd drive it home.
good luck, sammmm



"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
.umich.edu...
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Jeff Wieland wrote:
>
> > We're 200 miles from home tonight with an erratic low oil pressure light
> > on our '95 Voyager, 3.0L, with 110,000 miles. The repair manual and
> > virtually all of my tools are 200 miles away :-(. The light goes on and
> > out. I do not hear any clattering or ticking like I'd expect to hear if
> > the oil pressure were truly low. I'm thinking that it's likely to be
> > the oil pressure sending unit. On a Sunday, I *might* be able to get a
> > new unit and the appropriate socket. Is it likely to be the sending
> > unit?
>
> Yes, it's likely just to be the sending unit or the wire. If the oil
> pressure were truly low, you'd be hearing expensive noises. Furthermore,
> if there were truly "intermittent" low oil pressure, it would occur either
> only at low RPMs (loose internal clearances and/or weak oil pump and/or
> stuck-open oil pressure regulator valve) or only at high RPMs
> (partially-clogged oil uptake screen or pipe, sagged oil filter element
> endcap). If you're driving along and getting a random intermittent oil
> pressure light, it's probably because the sender's flaky or the wire is
> intermittently grounding.
>
> Me, I'd just go have the oil and filter changed (with a quality filter, to
> eliminate the chance of filter problems), unplug the sender and drive
> home, then diagnose and fix it there.
>
> > Should I just wait until Monday to get it to the Dodge dealer where I
> > am?
>
> The dealer? I'd never take an out-of-warranty vehicle to the dealer for
> service.
>
> DS

you have that right about an out-of-warranty vehicle to the dealer.
you don't even get a kiss with the screwing you'll take.
remember, tho, the 3.0 is the mitsu and they can be a real pain.
if it only comes on at idle, i'd drive it home.
good luck, sammmm



"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
.umich.edu...
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Jeff Wieland wrote:
>
> > We're 200 miles from home tonight with an erratic low oil pressure light
> > on our '95 Voyager, 3.0L, with 110,000 miles. The repair manual and
> > virtually all of my tools are 200 miles away :-(. The light goes on and
> > out. I do not hear any clattering or ticking like I'd expect to hear if
> > the oil pressure were truly low. I'm thinking that it's likely to be
> > the oil pressure sending unit. On a Sunday, I *might* be able to get a
> > new unit and the appropriate socket. Is it likely to be the sending
> > unit?
>
> Yes, it's likely just to be the sending unit or the wire. If the oil
> pressure were truly low, you'd be hearing expensive noises. Furthermore,
> if there were truly "intermittent" low oil pressure, it would occur either
> only at low RPMs (loose internal clearances and/or weak oil pump and/or
> stuck-open oil pressure regulator valve) or only at high RPMs
> (partially-clogged oil uptake screen or pipe, sagged oil filter element
> endcap). If you're driving along and getting a random intermittent oil
> pressure light, it's probably because the sender's flaky or the wire is
> intermittently grounding.
>
> Me, I'd just go have the oil and filter changed (with a quality filter, to
> eliminate the chance of filter problems), unplug the sender and drive
> home, then diagnose and fix it there.
>
> > Should I just wait until Monday to get it to the Dodge dealer where I
> > am?
>
> The dealer? I'd never take an out-of-warranty vehicle to the dealer for
> service.
>
> DS

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 04:02:56 +0000 (UTC), Jeff Wieland
> wrote:

>In article ch.edu> "Daniel J. Stern" > writes:
>>On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Jeff Wieland wrote:
>>
>>> The engine sounds normal. I'd really expect to hear the lifters
>>> clattering if there were no oil pressure.
>>
>>Exactly.
>>
>>> Hmmm. The oil was just changed last Friday, and a Mopar filter was
>>> used.
>>
>>=Fram. Go get a different brand.
>
>Seriously?? I've heard the critisms of Fram, but I didn't know
>that's what Chrysler is using. Damn... That's what I've got on
>my Neon R/T, too.
>

When did Allied Signal start making Mopar filters??
Last I heard, here in Canada anyway, they were Danas.

>>> Yep, I know. I've had trouble finding someone who knows their way
>>> around a Mopar (especially a Mopar with a Mitsubishi engine).
>>
>>That's a little difficult for me to believe. There are millions of Mopars
>>with Mitsubishi engines on North American (South American, Middle Eastern,
>>European) roads. They're practically as common as Chevrolet Caprices with
>>305 V8s were a decade ago.
>

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 04:02:56 +0000 (UTC), Jeff Wieland
> wrote:

>In article ch.edu> "Daniel J. Stern" > writes:
>>On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Jeff Wieland wrote:
>>
>>> The engine sounds normal. I'd really expect to hear the lifters
>>> clattering if there were no oil pressure.
>>
>>Exactly.
>>
>>> Hmmm. The oil was just changed last Friday, and a Mopar filter was
>>> used.
>>
>>=Fram. Go get a different brand.
>
>Seriously?? I've heard the critisms of Fram, but I didn't know
>that's what Chrysler is using. Damn... That's what I've got on
>my Neon R/T, too.
>

When did Allied Signal start making Mopar filters??
Last I heard, here in Canada anyway, they were Danas.

>>> Yep, I know. I've had trouble finding someone who knows their way
>>> around a Mopar (especially a Mopar with a Mitsubishi engine).
>>
>>That's a little difficult for me to believe. There are millions of Mopars
>>with Mitsubishi engines on North American (South American, Middle Eastern,
>>European) roads. They're practically as common as Chevrolet Caprices with
>>305 V8s were a decade ago.
>

In article > "SAMMMMM" > writes:
>you have that right about an out-of-warranty vehicle to the dealer.
>you don't even get a kiss with the screwing you'll take.
>remember, tho, the 3.0 is the mitsu and they can be a real pain.
>if it only comes on at idle, i'd drive it home.
>good luck, sammmm

We made it home OK. Interestingly, the light went out after about 30
minutes on the road. It came back on about an hour after that. Then,
on a particularly rough state highway, we noticed that the light would
flicker when we hit bumps. To me, that points to some sort of
electrical problem, or maybe the sensor itstelf. There's no way that
hitting those bumps can affect the actual oil pressure, right?

We'll get it checked out tomorrow -- it will be interesting to see
what we find out.

About two weeks ago I'd been talking to a salesman at the dealership
about buying a new van. My wife hates the current colors so much that
she's quite opposed to the idea (the van is hers), so as long as the
'95 is running reasonably well and is safe to drive, she wants to keep
it. She wants a forest green color like our '95. I'd like to get her
into something with ABS and better airbags (and that doesn't have that
old 4-speed automatic tranny). We'll see after tomorrow.
--
Jeff Wieland