2009 Odyssey Heater

My first venture into the Honda line has been received with mixed
reviews. The vehicle in question is a new 2009 Honda Odyssey Touring.
The only option added was the trailering package which was dealer
installed. Some nice feature and some just plain disappointing. One of
my biggest regrets was not opting for all wheel drive. Traction in Ohio
winters is tenuous at best.

More importantly, in Ohio winters, I would like a bit more heat! I have
had it back to the dealers indicating it just takes too long for the
engine to warm up. It never reaches half way on the gauge and is
certainly less than satisfying in warming the the interior of the
vehicle. The dealer mechanic has measured the air temp coming out of
the dash as about 160 F which sounds okay, but has not offered the
engine temperature. Having called "the factory", it would seem that
that check is not necessary. The performance would indicate to me that
the thermostat does not allow the engine temperature to reach the 195
design level.

Any ideas out there about how I might pursue an improvement?

Tom

Piperson > wrote in :

> My first venture into the Honda line has been received with mixed
> reviews. The vehicle in question is a new 2009 Honda Odyssey Touring.
> The only option added was the trailering package which was dealer
> installed. Some nice feature and some just plain disappointing. One of
> my biggest regrets was not opting for all wheel drive. Traction in Ohio
> winters is tenuous at best.
>
> More importantly, in Ohio winters, I would like a bit more heat! I have
> had it back to the dealers indicating it just takes too long for the
> engine to warm up. It never reaches half way on the gauge and is
> certainly less than satisfying in warming the the interior of the
> vehicle. The dealer mechanic has measured the air temp coming out of
> the dash as about 160 F which sounds okay, but has not offered the
> engine temperature. Having called "the factory", it would seem that
> that check is not necessary. The performance would indicate to me that
> the thermostat does not allow the engine temperature to reach the 195
> design level.
>
> Any ideas out there about how I might pursue an improvement?
>



I've been hearing this for much more than a year. Not just for Hondas but
for Toyotas as well.

At first I thought it had to do with defective thermostats. And indeed,
people who had their thermostats replaced under warranty DID report an
improvement. But the perceived improvement may have been imaginary.

Given the frequency with which I'm seeing this problem, I wonder if there
has been a regulatory change to emissions control laws. NOx are a product
of excessive combustion chamber temperatures. Cool the chamber and you
reduce NOx. Cool it too much without restricting the cooling system and you
may actually affect interior heater performance.

I see absolutely nothing in any of the official documentation I have (which
is now extensive) relating to the problem, so evidently automakers do not
believe there is an issue.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Piperson > wrote in :

> My first venture into the Honda line has been received with mixed
> reviews. The vehicle in question is a new 2009 Honda Odyssey Touring.
> The only option added was the trailering package which was dealer
> installed. Some nice feature and some just plain disappointing. One of
> my biggest regrets was not opting for all wheel drive. Traction in Ohio
> winters is tenuous at best.
>
> More importantly, in Ohio winters, I would like a bit more heat! I have
> had it back to the dealers indicating it just takes too long for the
> engine to warm up. It never reaches half way on the gauge and is
> certainly less than satisfying in warming the the interior of the
> vehicle. The dealer mechanic has measured the air temp coming out of
> the dash as about 160 F which sounds okay, but has not offered the
> engine temperature. Having called "the factory", it would seem that
> that check is not necessary. The performance would indicate to me that
> the thermostat does not allow the engine temperature to reach the 195
> design level.
>


I think you're confusing dash vent temperatures with engine head
temperatures.

Assuming a 174F (78C) OEM thermostat and a fully-warm engine, an infrared
thermometer aimed at the upper rad hose outlet at the head will display
about 205F. Anywhere other than that, the thermometer will read drastically
lower. I'm very surprised the tech was able to get 160F at the vents.
That's hotter than the hot water tap in your house. I'd expect more like 70
or 75.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On 01/22/2010 07:39 PM, Tegger wrote:
> > wrote in :
>
>> My first venture into the Honda line has been received with mixed
>> reviews. The vehicle in question is a new 2009 Honda Odyssey Touring.
>> The only option added was the trailering package which was dealer
>> installed. Some nice feature and some just plain disappointing. One of
>> my biggest regrets was not opting for all wheel drive. Traction in Ohio
>> winters is tenuous at best.
>>
>> More importantly, in Ohio winters, I would like a bit more heat! I have
>> had it back to the dealers indicating it just takes too long for the
>> engine to warm up. It never reaches half way on the gauge and is
>> certainly less than satisfying in warming the the interior of the
>> vehicle. The dealer mechanic has measured the air temp coming out of
>> the dash as about 160 F which sounds okay, but has not offered the
>> engine temperature. Having called "the factory", it would seem that
>> that check is not necessary. The performance would indicate to me that
>> the thermostat does not allow the engine temperature to reach the 195
>> design level.
>>
>> Any ideas out there about how I might pursue an improvement?
>>
>
>
>
> I've been hearing this for much more than a year. Not just for Hondas but
> for Toyotas as well.
>
> At first I thought it had to do with defective thermostats. And indeed,
> people who had their thermostats replaced under warranty DID report an
> improvement. But the perceived improvement may have been imaginary.
>
> Given the frequency with which I'm seeing this problem, I wonder if there
> has been a regulatory change to emissions control laws. NOx are a product
> of excessive combustion chamber temperatures. Cool the chamber and you
> reduce NOx. Cool it too much without restricting the cooling system and you
> may actually affect interior heater performance.

but you'd then get excess hydrocarbon output instead.

otoh, if this is real, because ethanol has a lower calorie content, i
wonder if it could be high ethanol gasoline? [just an idle wonder - i
have no idea about comparative combustion temps.]


>
> I see absolutely nothing in any of the official documentation I have (which
> is now extensive) relating to the problem, so evidently automakers do not
> believe there is an issue.

if ethanol, it would not be an issue they could address easily. there
are two cooling circuits on modern engines - and one of them circulates
all the time. closing that off to get a higher temperature quicker
might lead to local hot-spots - you have to assume the manufacturers
have done /some/ homework on this.

manufacturers could of course move to an electronically controlled
thermostat and have the engine temp managed so it's warmer in winter and
cooler in the summer, but i'm not sure how the computer would know what
was "not warm enough" for any individual driver.

On 01/22/2010 07:00 PM, Piperson wrote:
> My first venture into the Honda line has been received with mixed
> reviews. The vehicle in question is a new 2009 Honda Odyssey Touring.
> The only option added was the trailering package which was dealer
> installed. Some nice feature and some just plain disappointing. One of
> my biggest regrets was not opting for all wheel drive. Traction in Ohio
> winters is tenuous at best.
>
> More importantly, in Ohio winters, I would like a bit more heat! I have
> had it back to the dealers indicating it just takes too long for the
> engine to warm up. It never reaches half way on the gauge and is
> certainly less than satisfying in warming the the interior of the
> vehicle. The dealer mechanic has measured the air temp coming out of the
> dash as about 160 F which sounds okay, but has not offered the engine
> temperature. Having called "the factory", it would seem that that check
> is not necessary. The performance would indicate to me that the
> thermostat does not allow the engine temperature to reach the 195 design
> level.
>
> Any ideas out there about how I might pursue an improvement?

i think you should check the facts. get an obdII code reader and use it
to find out what the actual coolant temperature is from the engine
computer output. if it's below 78C, you do indeed have a problem. if
not, you don't.

On 01/23/2010 03:24 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In >,
> > wrote:
>
>> I've been hearing this for much more than a year. Not just for Hondas but
>> for Toyotas as well.
>>
>> At first I thought it had to do with defective thermostats. And indeed,
>> people who had their thermostats replaced under warranty DID report an
>> improvement. But the perceived improvement may have been imaginary.
>>
>> Given the frequency with which I'm seeing this problem, I wonder if there
>> has been a regulatory change to emissions control laws. NOx are a product
>> of excessive combustion chamber temperatures. Cool the chamber and you
>> reduce NOx. Cool it too much without restricting the cooling system and you
>> may actually affect interior heater performance.
>>
>> I see absolutely nothing in any of the official documentation I have (which
>> is now extensive) relating to the problem, so evidently automakers do not
>> believe there is an issue.
>
> Frankly, the first thing that came to my mind was that he's warming up
> the car in the driveway and complaining that it's not getting warm
> enough just sitting there

good point.


>
> That's just how modern cars work, of course; you have to drive them to
> get the temps up. Been that way for years and years.
>
> The clue was his claim that the temp needle never gets to the middle.
> That's simply not true. When the engine is running properly, the body
> computer will move the temperature needle to the middle to indicate "all
> is well". It won't fluctuate up and down with minor variations. If the
> needle is in fact not getting to the middle during normal driving, then
> something is indeed wrong.

yup.

I never warm the car up in the driveway, except to clear the windshield.
I get in it and go, and expect when I hit the signal 1 mile away, I am
getting some heat out of the vents, just like the other three cars I
drive. It isn't happening on the Odyssey, until nearly the second mile.

Tom

On 1/23/2010 6:24 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In >,
> > wrote:
>
>> I've been hearing this for much more than a year. Not just for Hondas but
>> for Toyotas as well.
>>
>> At first I thought it had to do with defective thermostats. And indeed,
>> people who had their thermostats replaced under warranty DID report an
>> improvement. But the perceived improvement may have been imaginary.
>>
>> Given the frequency with which I'm seeing this problem, I wonder if there
>> has been a regulatory change to emissions control laws. NOx are a product
>> of excessive combustion chamber temperatures. Cool the chamber and you
>> reduce NOx. Cool it too much without restricting the cooling system and you
>> may actually affect interior heater performance.
>>
>> I see absolutely nothing in any of the official documentation I have (which
>> is now extensive) relating to the problem, so evidently automakers do not
>> believe there is an issue.
>
> Frankly, the first thing that came to my mind was that he's warming up
> the car in the driveway and complaining that it's not getting warm
> enough just sitting there
>
> That's just how modern cars work, of course; you have to drive them to
> get the temps up. Been that way for years and years.
>
> The clue was his claim that the temp needle never gets to the middle.
> That's simply not true. When the engine is running properly, the body
> computer will move the temperature needle to the middle to indicate "all
> is well". It won't fluctuate up and down with minor variations. If the
> needle is in fact not getting to the middle during normal driving, then
> something is indeed wrong.

On 01/23/2010 02:27 PM, Piperson wrote:

> On 1/23/2010 6:24 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In >,
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I've been hearing this for much more than a year. Not just for Hondas
>>> but
>>> for Toyotas as well.
>>>
>>> At first I thought it had to do with defective thermostats. And indeed,
>>> people who had their thermostats replaced under warranty DID report an
>>> improvement. But the perceived improvement may have been imaginary.
>>>
>>> Given the frequency with which I'm seeing this problem, I wonder if
>>> there
>>> has been a regulatory change to emissions control laws. NOx are a
>>> product
>>> of excessive combustion chamber temperatures. Cool the chamber and you
>>> reduce NOx. Cool it too much without restricting the cooling system
>>> and you
>>> may actually affect interior heater performance.
>>>
>>> I see absolutely nothing in any of the official documentation I have
>>> (which
>>> is now extensive) relating to the problem, so evidently automakers do
>>> not
>>> believe there is an issue.
>>
>> Frankly, the first thing that came to my mind was that he's warming up
>> the car in the driveway and complaining that it's not getting warm
>> enough just sitting there
>>
>> That's just how modern cars work, of course; you have to drive them to
>> get the temps up. Been that way for years and years.
>>
>> The clue was his claim that the temp needle never gets to the middle.
>> That's simply not true. When the engine is running properly, the body
>> computer will move the temperature needle to the middle to indicate "all
>> is well". It won't fluctuate up and down with minor variations. If the
>> needle is in fact not getting to the middle during normal driving, then
>> something is indeed wrong.

> I never warm the car up in the driveway, except to clear the windshield.
> I get in it and go, and expect when I hit the signal 1 mile away, I am
> getting some heat out of the vents, just like the other three cars I
> drive. It isn't happening on the Odyssey, until nearly the second mile.
>
> Tom
>

don't top post.

what temperature does the coolant read on the computer output?

In article >,
says...
> I never warm the car up in the driveway, except to clear the windshield.
> I get in it and go, and expect when I hit the signal 1 mile away, I am
> getting some heat out of the vents, just like the other three cars I
> drive. It isn't happening on the Odyssey, until nearly the second mile.
>
> Tom

Be aware that when you select the windshield defroster, the air
conditioner kicks in to dehumidify the air blown on the glass.
This can lower the temperature of the heated air quite a bit, and
the drier air feels cooler (faster evaporation from your skin).

I think you can defeat the AC during defrost through certain
button-pressing combinations; check the owner's manual.

Also, do you have the rear-passenger controls enabled? You're
diverting a lot of heat to unoccupied space if you do...

--Gene

On Jan 22, 10:00*pm, Piperson > wrote:
> My first venture into the Honda line has been received with mixed
> reviews. *The vehicle in question is a new 2009 Honda Odyssey Touring.
> The only option added was the trailering package which was dealer
> installed. *Some nice feature and some just plain disappointing. *One of
> my biggest regrets was not opting for all wheel drive. *Traction in Ohio
> winters is tenuous at best.
>

Honda does NOT offer AWD in their minivan. I'm pretty sure the only
minivan offering AWD is Toyota's Sienna. So instead opt for winter
tires on your Ody.

> More importantly, in Ohio winters, I would like a bit more heat! *I have
> had it back to the dealers indicating it just takes too long for the
> engine to warm up. *It never reaches half way on the gauge

My Sienna temp gauge also never rises above mid way. But it throws
LOTS of heat after about 5 to 10 min. of driving depending upon
outside temps.


and is
> certainly less than satisfying in warming the the interior of the
> vehicle. *The dealer mechanic has measured the air temp coming out of
> the dash as about 160 F which sounds okay,

It's a big interior to warm up. You need to run the fans, fore and
aft, at full speed until the interior warms.

Turn off the defroster setting as soon as the windshield clears and
run the heat to the floor and mid-level. Make sure the vents in the
back of the van are open and blowing. Do NOT operate HVAC on
recirculate or the windows will fog.

It'll warm if the heater's blowing 160F air but it takes a some time
in very cold temps.