99 vw loss of power...tried everything...please help

So my mechanic towed it on Saturday, and today it starts right up for
him!!!!! This is soooo frustrating! Engine Speed Sensor is the Hall
Sensor, correct, or no?? That he tested the other day. Would the
exhaust blowing a whole in the "middle" of the exhaust system be
symptomatic or a sign of a clogged exhaust system? Plus isn't it when
it runs too rich that it misfires, or both?


One out of many Daves wrote:
> 16684 P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
> 16685 P0301 Cyl.1 Misfire Detected
> 16686 P0302 Cyl.2 Misfire Detected
> 16687 P0303 Cyl.3 Misfire Detected
> 16688 P0304 Cyl.4 Misfire Detected
>
> Yeah that puzzles me since you have:
> excellent grounds to the engine, body and ign coil
> NEW cap, rotor, plugs, wires, coil, MAF, engine speed sensor(?) and other
> new components.
>
> if the engine is running too lean, that might create some misfires.
> maybe your mechanic will catch the problem now that it is dying out more
> often.
>
> hmmmm "brownish smoke out of the exhaust"
> don't forget to get that exhaust flow tested. maybe a clogged exhaust??
>
> Yes generally if the ign switch is bad the idiot lights will not light up
> when the engine stalls, or the lights go out while cranking over the engine.
> Although on my '91 Passat when my ignition switch was going bad some
> components worked and other didn't. I could drive but not operate my power
> windows nor hear the radio. ODD huh? A new aftermarket ign. switch died in
> about a week's time. My rebuilt one at least lasted about 6 months, but the
> dealer's switch has been good for over a year so far.
>
> guessing here again!
> good luck,
> dave
> (One out of many daves)
>
> "andrea" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Also the battery is good. Yesterday when it was dying I kept finagling
> > with the key and it would move the RPMs slightly, making them fluctuate
> > slightly....if the ignition switch was bad, wouldn't the dashboard
> > lights not go on when it stalled?
>
> > The misfire codes were PO300, 301, 302, 303, 304...in any case
> > yesterday getting on the highway the car was beginning to die and then
> > it backfired twice...brownish smoke out of the exhaust, died, then, got
> > it started, died aboout 100 yds. later, backfired while trying to start
> > it but this time under the middle of the car, and white smoke came
> > billowing out on the side..sounds like it blew a hole in the
> > exhaust...able to restart 5 more times for about 50-100 yds. each time
> > and was able to finally get it off the highway. The past couple of
> > days whenever it's died and you finally get it restarted there is
> > always a huge smell of gasoline, kinda like it smells when and if you
> > flood a car. My car then had to be towed to the mechanics.
> >

No the Hall Sensor inside of the distributor is the Camshaft Position
Sensor. It can be bad or unplugged and the engine should still run.
The Crank Position Sensor (AKA Engine Speed Sensor) should be bolted to the
block down lownear the flywheel/driveplate AFAIK. If it goes out you lose
spark and possibly will not even throw a code. At least it did not throw a
code on a '97 VR6 engine and my parts guy says the VR6 ESS don't fail often.
He did say the 2.0 engine ESS do fail frequently.

It sounds like this is not a VW mechanic. :-(

Let him drive it for a week or so! If it conks out then he might want to
change the ESS for safety sake. ;-)

Why did the exhaust blow a hole in the middle? Rust?
Does it run better with that hole? ;-)

AFAIK Misfires could happen with a lean or rich condition, but more often
with a lean condition.



"andrea" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> So my mechanic towed it on Saturday, and today it starts right up for
> him!!!!! This is soooo frustrating! Engine Speed Sensor is the Hall
> Sensor, correct, or no?? That he tested the other day. Would the
> exhaust blowing a whole in the "middle" of the exhaust system be
> symptomatic or a sign of a clogged exhaust system? Plus isn't it when
> it runs too rich that it misfires, or both?
=

ok

There are some sensors here that have not been replaced yet. My 1990
Golf had a similar sounding problem to yours and it turned out to an O2
sensor. That is not saying anything though about your car.

The way that I fixed it though was with a bentley manual. They list a
myriad of electrical tests that can be carried out. Basically at this
point your mechanic needs to stop replacing things and start
methodically going through and testing every single sensor, and every
single connection at the ECU. It takes some time and lots of patience
but in the end it will prove successful. I fell into this trap of
replacing parts and it is not fun, it sounds like a lot of money is
being spent.

I would recommend getting a Bentley manual either on CD-ROM or in
print. If you go on amazon you can get it for 55 dollars I think. It
has full schematics of the electrical system as well as lots of info
that is left out of your ordinary Haynes or Chilton manual. Its well
worth the money and will more than likely give you insight into what
the problem is.

In my opinion I think that the oxygen sensor (or its associated wiring)
sounds like it is acting up. The oxygen sensor tells the ECU what
condition it is running in lean, rich or bang on. This is only an
assumption though.

Good luck with your car!

Peter

One out of many Daves wrote:
> No the Hall Sensor inside of the distributor is the Camshaft Position
> Sensor. It can be bad or unplugged and the engine should still run.
> The Crank Position Sensor (AKA Engine Speed Sensor) should be bolted to the
> block down lownear the flywheel/driveplate AFAIK. If it goes out you lose
> spark and possibly will not even throw a code. At least it did not throw a
> code on a '97 VR6 engine and my parts guy says the VR6 ESS don't fail often.
> He did say the 2.0 engine ESS do fail frequently.
>
> It sounds like this is not a VW mechanic. :-(
>
> Let him drive it for a week or so! If it conks out then he might want to
> change the ESS for safety sake. ;-)
>
> Why did the exhaust blow a hole in the middle? Rust?
> Does it run better with that hole? ;-)
>
> AFAIK Misfires could happen with a lean or rich condition, but more often
> with a lean condition.
>
>
>
> "andrea" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > So my mechanic towed it on Saturday, and today it starts right up for
> > him!!!!! This is soooo frustrating! Engine Speed Sensor is the Hall
> > Sensor, correct, or no?? That he tested the other day. Would the
> > exhaust blowing a whole in the "middle" of the exhaust system be
> > symptomatic or a sign of a clogged exhaust system? Plus isn't it when
> > it runs too rich that it misfires, or both?
> =

I see that you have had your catalytic convertor replaced, but could
this possibly still be the problem? My 99 Golf was acting as you have
described. The problem was that the catalytic convertor had begun to
break apart and had clogged my exhaust system to the point that the car
would barely move. I took it to a dealership and they replaced the cc
and exhaust at no charge. I was told that it was a recall (although I
don't remember getting the recall notice).
Hope this helps you. PS. - also had the MAF sensor replaced at the
same time to correct misfiring.

wrote:
> ok
>
> There are some sensors here that have not been replaced yet. My 1990
> Golf had a similar sounding problem to yours and it turned out to an O2
> sensor. That is not saying anything though about your car.
>
> The way that I fixed it though was with a bentley manual. They list a
> myriad of electrical tests that can be carried out. Basically at this
> point your mechanic needs to stop replacing things and start
> methodically going through and testing every single sensor, and every
> single connection at the ECU. It takes some time and lots of patience
> but in the end it will prove successful. I fell into this trap of
> replacing parts and it is not fun, it sounds like a lot of money is
> being spent.
>
> I would recommend getting a Bentley manual either on CD-ROM or in
> print. If you go on amazon you can get it for 55 dollars I think. It
> has full schematics of the electrical system as well as lots of info
> that is left out of your ordinary Haynes or Chilton manual. Its well
> worth the money and will more than likely give you insight into what
> the problem is.
>
> In my opinion I think that the oxygen sensor (or its associated wiring)
> sounds like it is acting up. The oxygen sensor tells the ECU what
> condition it is running in lean, rich or bang on. This is only an
> assumption though.
>
> Good luck with your car!
>
> Peter
>
> One out of many Daves wrote:
> > No the Hall Sensor inside of the distributor is the Camshaft Position
> > Sensor. It can be bad or unplugged and the engine should still run.
> > The Crank Position Sensor (AKA Engine Speed Sensor) should be bolted to the
> > block down lownear the flywheel/driveplate AFAIK. If it goes out you lose
> > spark and possibly will not even throw a code. At least it did not throw a
> > code on a '97 VR6 engine and my parts guy says the VR6 ESS don't fail often.
> > He did say the 2.0 engine ESS do fail frequently.
> >
> > It sounds like this is not a VW mechanic. :-(
> >
> > Let him drive it for a week or so! If it conks out then he might want to
> > change the ESS for safety sake. ;-)
> >
> > Why did the exhaust blow a hole in the middle? Rust?
> > Does it run better with that hole? ;-)
> >
> > AFAIK Misfires could happen with a lean or rich condition, but more often
> > with a lean condition.
> >
> >
> >
> > "andrea" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> > > So my mechanic towed it on Saturday, and today it starts right up for
> > > him!!!!! This is soooo frustrating! Engine Speed Sensor is the Hall
> > > Sensor, correct, or no?? That he tested the other day. Would the
> > > exhaust blowing a whole in the "middle" of the exhaust system be
> > > symptomatic or a sign of a clogged exhaust system? Plus isn't it when
> > > it runs too rich that it misfires, or both?
> > =

My mechanic was not a VW mechanic and he admitted he was completely
stumped. I did take it to a new foreign vehicle mechanic (the vw
dealer says they don't see a problem) and he suggested the fuel pump,
(he did ask about the O2 sensor too) even though my other mechanic,
after testing the pump, insisted this wouldn't be the problem. But
since it is basically the first part I've paid for other than the coil
(long story there) I decided to bite...$572.73 later, the car died the
next day. I called the mechanic immediately (my other mechanic is
going to say "I told you so") and the new guy said there was a ground
wire in the trunk that needed to be secured...can I bring it right in?
So of course I did. This all happened on Saturday so I don't know if
that will make a difference. If this doesn't have any effect, then I
will have to go back to my old guy and ask him to do the tests. When
my cc was replaced, they checked out the exhaust since the cc was
broken and had turned. Also on that day that the car backfired,
everytime I tried to restart it, it sounded like it blew a hole in the
exhaust. Now that it funs "fine" again, there's no noise! This whole
thing is sooooo frustrating! Thanks everyone for all your help.


wrote:
> I see that you have had your catalytic convertor replaced, but could
> this possibly still be the problem? My 99 Golf was acting as you have
> described. The problem was that the catalytic convertor had begun to
> break apart and had clogged my exhaust system to the point that the car
> would barely move. I took it to a dealership and they replaced the cc
> and exhaust at no charge. I was told that it was a recall (although I
> don't remember getting the recall notice).
> Hope this helps you. PS. - also had the MAF sensor replaced at the
> same time to correct misfiring.
>
> wrote:
> > ok
> >
> > There are some sensors here that have not been replaced yet. My 1990
> > Golf had a similar sounding problem to yours and it turned out to an O2
> > sensor. That is not saying anything though about your car.
> >
> > The way that I fixed it though was with a bentley manual. They list a
> > myriad of electrical tests that can be carried out. Basically at this
> > point your mechanic needs to stop replacing things and start
> > methodically going through and testing every single sensor, and every
> > single connection at the ECU. It takes some time and lots of patience
> > but in the end it will prove successful. I fell into this trap of
> > replacing parts and it is not fun, it sounds like a lot of money is
> > being spent.
> >
> > I would recommend getting a Bentley manual either on CD-ROM or in
> > print. If you go on amazon you can get it for 55 dollars I think. It
> > has full schematics of the electrical system as well as lots of info
> > that is left out of your ordinary Haynes or Chilton manual. Its well
> > worth the money and will more than likely give you insight into what
> > the problem is.
> >
> > In my opinion I think that the oxygen sensor (or its associated wiring)
> > sounds like it is acting up. The oxygen sensor tells the ECU what
> > condition it is running in lean, rich or bang on. This is only an
> > assumption though.
> >
> > Good luck with your car!
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > One out of many Daves wrote:
> > > No the Hall Sensor inside of the distributor is the Camshaft Position
> > > Sensor. It can be bad or unplugged and the engine should still run.
> > > The Crank Position Sensor (AKA Engine Speed Sensor) should be bolted to the
> > > block down lownear the flywheel/driveplate AFAIK. If it goes out you lose
> > > spark and possibly will not even throw a code. At least it did not throw a
> > > code on a '97 VR6 engine and my parts guy says the VR6 ESS don't fail often.
> > > He did say the 2.0 engine ESS do fail frequently.
> > >
> > > It sounds like this is not a VW mechanic. :-(
> > >
> > > Let him drive it for a week or so! If it conks out then he might want to
> > > change the ESS for safety sake. ;-)
> > >
> > > Why did the exhaust blow a hole in the middle? Rust?
> > > Does it run better with that hole? ;-)
> > >
> > > AFAIK Misfires could happen with a lean or rich condition, but more often
> > > with a lean condition.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "andrea" > wrote in message
> > > oups.com...
> > > > So my mechanic towed it on Saturday, and today it starts right up for
> > > > him!!!!! This is soooo frustrating! Engine Speed Sensor is the Hall
> > > > Sensor, correct, or no?? That he tested the other day. Would the
> > > > exhaust blowing a whole in the "middle" of the exhaust system be
> > > > symptomatic or a sign of a clogged exhaust system? Plus isn't it when
> > > > it runs too rich that it misfires, or both?
> > > =

OKAY EVERYONE...MY PROBLEM INCREASES SIGNIFICANTLY WHEN THE AIR
CONDITIONER BUTTON IS PUSHED IN...does anyone have any info on the
relationship between the AC being on and how the engine should respond
accordingly so there is not a loss of power? Andrea


andrea wrote:
> My mechanic was not a VW mechanic and he admitted he was completely
> stumped. I did take it to a new foreign vehicle mechanic (the vw
> dealer says they don't see a problem) and he suggested the fuel pump,
> (he did ask about the O2 sensor too) even though my other mechanic,
> after testing the pump, insisted this wouldn't be the problem. But
> since it is basically the first part I've paid for other than the coil
> (long story there) I decided to bite...$572.73 later, the car died the
> next day. I called the mechanic immediately (my other mechanic is
> going to say "I told you so") and the new guy said there was a ground
> wire in the trunk that needed to be secured...can I bring it right in?
> So of course I did. This all happened on Saturday so I don't know if
> that will make a difference. If this doesn't have any effect, then I
> will have to go back to my old guy and ask him to do the tests. When
> my cc was replaced, they checked out the exhaust since the cc was
> broken and had turned. Also on that day that the car backfired,
> everytime I tried to restart it, it sounded like it blew a hole in the
> exhaust. Now that it funs "fine" again, there's no noise! This whole
> thing is sooooo frustrating! Thanks everyone for all your help.
>
>
> wrote:
> > I see that you have had your catalytic convertor replaced, but could
> > this possibly still be the problem? My 99 Golf was acting as you have
> > described. The problem was that the catalytic convertor had begun to
> > break apart and had clogged my exhaust system to the point that the car
> > would barely move. I took it to a dealership and they replaced the cc
> > and exhaust at no charge. I was told that it was a recall (although I
> > don't remember getting the recall notice).
> > Hope this helps you. PS. - also had the MAF sensor replaced at the
> > same time to correct misfiring.
> >
> > wrote:
> > > ok
> > >
> > > There are some sensors here that have not been replaced yet. My 1990
> > > Golf had a similar sounding problem to yours and it turned out to an O2
> > > sensor. That is not saying anything though about your car.
> > >
> > > The way that I fixed it though was with a bentley manual. They list a
> > > myriad of electrical tests that can be carried out. Basically at this
> > > point your mechanic needs to stop replacing things and start
> > > methodically going through and testing every single sensor, and every
> > > single connection at the ECU. It takes some time and lots of patience
> > > but in the end it will prove successful. I fell into this trap of
> > > replacing parts and it is not fun, it sounds like a lot of money is
> > > being spent.
> > >
> > > I would recommend getting a Bentley manual either on CD-ROM or in
> > > print. If you go on amazon you can get it for 55 dollars I think. It
> > > has full schematics of the electrical system as well as lots of info
> > > that is left out of your ordinary Haynes or Chilton manual. Its well
> > > worth the money and will more than likely give you insight into what
> > > the problem is.
> > >
> > > In my opinion I think that the oxygen sensor (or its associated wiring)
> > > sounds like it is acting up. The oxygen sensor tells the ECU what
> > > condition it is running in lean, rich or bang on. This is only an
> > > assumption though.
> > >
> > > Good luck with your car!
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > One out of many Daves wrote:
> > > > No the Hall Sensor inside of the distributor is the Camshaft Position
> > > > Sensor. It can be bad or unplugged and the engine should still run.
> > > > The Crank Position Sensor (AKA Engine Speed Sensor) should be bolted to the
> > > > block down lownear the flywheel/driveplate AFAIK. If it goes out you lose
> > > > spark and possibly will not even throw a code. At least it did not throw a
> > > > code on a '97 VR6 engine and my parts guy says the VR6 ESS don't fail often.
> > > > He did say the 2.0 engine ESS do fail frequently.
> > > >
> > > > It sounds like this is not a VW mechanic. :-(
> > > >
> > > > Let him drive it for a week or so! If it conks out then he might want to
> > > > change the ESS for safety sake. ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Why did the exhaust blow a hole in the middle? Rust?
> > > > Does it run better with that hole? ;-)
> > > >
> > > > AFAIK Misfires could happen with a lean or rich condition, but more often
> > > > with a lean condition.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "andrea" > wrote in message
> > > > oups.com...
> > > > > So my mechanic towed it on Saturday, and today it starts right up for
> > > > > him!!!!! This is soooo frustrating! Engine Speed Sensor is the Hall
> > > > > Sensor, correct, or no?? That he tested the other day. Would the
> > > > > exhaust blowing a whole in the "middle" of the exhaust system be
> > > > > symptomatic or a sign of a clogged exhaust system? Plus isn't it when
> > > > > it runs too rich that it misfires, or both?
> > > > =

the clutch/pulley on the a/c compressor engages and now the engine has to
power or turn the compressor too.
the little power that you had from the engine is now being robbed by the a/c
compressor...........turn it off.....turn it off! ;-)

I did see a 2000 Jetta 2.0 engine that had the wrong spark plugs in it. It
still ran well until the side electrode on one of the plugs disappeared
inside of the engine. It is better now.



"andrea" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> OKAY EVERYONE...MY PROBLEM INCREASES SIGNIFICANTLY WHEN THE AIR
> CONDITIONER BUTTON IS PUSHED IN...does anyone have any info on the
> relationship between the AC being on and how the engine should respond
> accordingly so there is not a loss of power? Andrea

andrea wrote:
> OKAY EVERYONE...MY PROBLEM INCREASES SIGNIFICANTLY WHEN THE AIR
> CONDITIONER BUTTON IS PUSHED IN...does anyone have any info on the
> relationship between the AC being on and how the engine should respond
> accordingly so there is not a loss of power? Andrea

Just a question: how is the outdoor temperature when you experience
these problems? I had a few similiar experiences with my Golf IV on
very cold days.

It does this all the time, hot, cold, it doesn't matter. I do now keep
the AC off but it does not cure the problem. It just doesn't increase
it...however, the car is bad enough with it off to still be greatly
concerned, and not be able to really go anywhere!!!!! S, One of Many
Daves, what you're basically saying is that the AC is basically not a
cause of the problem, but more a symptom...I was wondering if there was
some type of "electrical" type connection that was causing the
relationship??

Andrea

Øyvind Segrov wrote:
> andrea wrote:
> > OKAY EVERYONE...MY PROBLEM INCREASES SIGNIFICANTLY WHEN THE AIR
> > CONDITIONER BUTTON IS PUSHED IN...does anyone have any info on the
> > relationship between the AC being on and how the engine should respond
> > accordingly so there is not a loss of power? Andrea
>
> Just a question: how is the outdoor temperature when you experience
> these problems? I had a few similiar experiences with my Golf IV on
> very cold days.

I am saying trying to run the a/c ADDS to the loss of power. Kinda like
trying to drive your car uphill all of the time! ;-)

Hmmm I had a thought that your camshaft timing might be off a notch, but it
should not make the engine stall. :-(
I suggest you take it to a VW expert like Lost In Space or maybe he knows
some techs in your area.

"andrea" > wrote in message
oups.com...
It does this all the time, hot, cold, it doesn't matter. I do now keep
the AC off but it does not cure the problem. It just doesn't increase
it...however, the car is bad enough with it off to still be greatly
concerned, and not be able to really go anywhere!!!!! S, One of Many
Daves, what you're basically saying is that the AC is basically not a
cause of the problem, but more a symptom...I was wondering if there was
some type of "electrical" type connection that was causing the
relationship??