beware VW turbo repair scham

I decided to buy a 2002 VW Jetta TDI for fuel economy on my long trips.
It seemed to have good reviews (except from the Car Talk Guys) and in
real-life better gas mileage than the Prius and I though more reliable
technology.
At about 65000 miles there were only a series (5 or more) check engine
light episodes. We had been happy with the car up until then despite
several problems related to knobs breaking off, wheel well liners and
front air dams tearing off on roll stops, etc. Nothing all that
expensive. The drive train seemed solid. About a month ago, the
acceleration of the car became intermittently poor. I took it to the
local dealership and the problem was diagnosed as a faulty turbo that
would cost $1,500+ to replace. I was dumbstruck. There went all the
fuel savings for the life of that car and more. However a second
opinion from a local non-VW mechanic suggested that the essential
problem was a defective waste gate valve on the turbo. The diagnosis
was made by observing that disabling this valve made the intermittent
problem constant. The mechanic thought he could fine a replacement
valve for less than $200. After many hours of searching it was
apparent that Garrett (the maker of the turbo) and/or Volkswagen had
made sure that replacing this valve was not possible. Obviously they
wanted to sale a $1500 turbo rather than a lousy valve. So they get my
perfectly good turbo, clean it up, paint it, replace the valve and
resale it for $1500. What a racquet!!! In my book this thievery.

I just wanted to let you know what will happen to you if a valve goes
bad on your turbo. |For me, I have bought my last Volkswagen.

> At about 65000 miles there were only a series (5 or more) check engine
> light episodes. We had been happy with the car up until then despite
> several problems related to knobs breaking off, wheel well liners and
> front air dams tearing off on roll stops, etc.

What is a "roll stop" and how does it tear parts off of a car?

I believe he's talking about concrete parking bumpers.

Ken wrote:
>
> I just wanted to let you know what will happen to you if a valve goes
> bad on your turbo. |For me, I have bought my last Volkswagen.

One word:

"Aftermarket."

HTH,

E.P.

On Wed, 25 May 2005, Ken wrote:

> I decided to buy a 2002 VW Jetta TDI for fuel economy on my long trips.
> real-life better gas mileage than the Prius and I though more reliable
> technology.

A VW more reliable than a Toyota? Are you for real?

> At about 65000 miles there were only a series (5 or more) check engine
> light episodes. We had been happy with the car up until then despite
> several problems related to knobs breaking off, wheel well liners and
> front air dams tearing off on roll stops, etc.

VWs break more reliably than Toyotas, I'll give them that.

> I took it to the
> local dealership and the problem was diagnosed as a faulty turbo that
> would cost $1,500+ to replace.

The "+" stands for "Plus the extra costs for fixing the new problems
created by the dealer service department while they're 'fixing' the
original problem".

> I was dumbstruck. There went all the
> fuel savings for the life of that car and more.

Especially with diesel fuel costing more than premium gasoline in most
places across North America.

> After many hours of searching it
> was apparent that Garrett (the maker of the turbo) and/or Volkswagen had
> made sure that replacing this valve was not possible.

Sure it is. You just have to have the proper tools and skills. There are
several good turbo repair/rebuild houses out there, most of whom have
websites.

> For me, I have bought my last Volkswagen.

Too late...

Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Wed, 25 May 2005, Ken wrote:
>
> > I decided to buy a 2002 VW Jetta TDI for fuel economy on my long trips.
> > real-life better gas mileage than the Prius and I though more reliable
> > technology.
>
> A VW more reliable than a Toyota? Are you for real?

Read for comprehension.

Diesel, especially turbodiesel, is decades-mature tech. Hybrid?
Pretty new.

The VW will never need a $5000 battery replacement.

> > I took it to the
> > local dealership and the problem was diagnosed as a faulty turbo that
> > would cost $1,500+ to replace.
>
> The "+" stands for "Plus the extra costs for fixing the new problems
> created by the dealer service department while they're 'fixing' the
> original problem".

You got the stealership philosophy right there - and not limited to VW,
or even German makes.

> > I was dumbstruck. There went all the
> > fuel savings for the life of that car and more.
>
> Especially with diesel fuel costing more than premium gasoline in most
> places across North America.

Considering the mpg difference, it's still cheaper to run diesel.
Factor in the cost of battery replacement, and the Prius isn't going to
be winning any operation economy contests.

> > After many hours of searching it
> > was apparent that Garrett (the maker of the turbo) and/or Volkswagen had
> > made sure that replacing this valve was not possible.
>
> Sure it is. You just have to have the proper tools and skills. There are
> several good turbo repair/rebuild houses out there, most of whom have
> websites.

The stealership is not the place to fix an out-of-warranty (or even
sometimes an in-warranty) car. Of any make. As Joe Pesci might have
said in one of those Lethal Weapon movies - "They will **** you."

Even replacing the whole turbo in a TDI VW shouldn't cost $1500.
Unless you're buying it *from* VW, and having in replaced by a VW
stealership.

E.P.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 wrote:

> > A VW more reliable than a Toyota? Are you for real?
>
> Read for comprehension.

I did.

> The VW will never need a $5000 battery replacement.

Ah, but it does "need" an expensive turbo. And parts have been falling
off. And the "Check Engine" light's been coming on at random. Doesn't
sound very reliable to me.

> Considering the mpg difference, it's still cheaper to run diesel.

Naw, it ain't. Do the math.

> Factor in the cost of battery replacement,

Right, the big scary battery replacement which won't need doing for a very
long time.

Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Wed, 25 May 2005 wrote:
>
> > > A VW more reliable than a Toyota? Are you for real?
> >
> > Read for comprehension.
>
> I did.

Except you spoke about *brand* reliability, rather than the reliability
of the *technology.*

You do realize those aren't the same thing, right?

> > The VW will never need a $5000 battery replacement.
>
> Ah, but it does "need" an expensive turbo.

Actually it doesn't. And it won't, unless someone can't figure out how
to change the oil.

It needs a wastegate, or more probably, the actuator rod, replacement.
Cheap, really.

> And parts have been falling
> off.

Except the ones torn off with a habit of "park by feel."

> And the "Check Engine" light's been coming on at random.

Wastegate actuator rod failure might do that. And anyone who can pull
the codes will find out that it's not random at all.

> > Considering the mpg difference, it's still cheaper to run diesel.
>
> Naw, it ain't. Do the math.

I have. 'Round these parts, diesel is never more than $0.05 above
premium. If the battery pack needs replacing every ten years (8 was
the figure I last read) that's $500/year that has to be made up.
Where's that savings, again?

Versus a non-hybrid, even running non-premium gas, you'd have to get
some damn good gasoline mileage to beat the yearly TDI fuel costs.

> > Factor in the cost of battery replacement,
>
> Right, the big scary battery replacement which won't need doing for a very
> long time.

Still has to amortized over the time to figure out the true costs.
Sarcastic handwaving doesn't make the cost disappear, right?

E.P.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> I have. 'Round these parts, diesel is never more than $0.05 above
> premium. If the battery pack needs replacing every ten years (8 was
> the figure I last read) that's $500/year that has to be made up.
> Where's that savings, again?

Diesel where I live (Florida) is much less than premium, but a little more
than regular unleaded. Of course, the price of diesel also varies alot
more than gas. The best place for price is a truck stop, or one frequented
by fleet vehicles (there's one near here, alot of garbage trucks and vans
stop there to fuel up, that's where I go).

On Wed, 25 May 2005 wrote:

> > > > A VW more reliable than a Toyota? Are you for real?
> > > Read for comprehension.
> > I did.
>
> Except you spoke about *brand* reliability, rather than the reliability
> of the *technology.*

Yes. VW couldn't make a reliable *popsicle stick* if their life depended
on it.