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Five cylinder NB



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 17th 05, 06:55 AM
Harry
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"Johann Koenig" > wrote

> Thats too bad, I love 2 strokes. Got my eye out for a Honda NS400R,
> know of any in the northeast?
> --
> -Johann Koenig


Me too. I bought a DKW out of a person's yard as a kid and got it running
and was fun to drive around. A 3 cylinder 2-stroke auto, 4-speed column
shift, kind of like the early Saab with the Saab Shrike 2-stroke engine,
that was actually on the first Saab Sonnets, I believe, before the V4, and
by the way, was sold by Saab at times with a lifetime guarantee - trouble
with it and the dealer just swapped the small-size 3 cylinder 2-stroke
engine - one of the couple early front wheel drive cars - as a teenager my
friend's father owned a Saab with a Shrike engine and I loved it for it's
uniqueness (front wheel drive and 2 stroke engine tone, cool interior) and
Saab had an oil injector on the later versions like 2-stroke motorcycles.
The DKW (German) had, the present Audi Auto Union symbol on it, (4 rings?)
you mixed oil and gas and it had 3 sets of points. Only wish I knew then
what I know now. Probably would paint and restore it as a curiosity item.
(DKW) I was 17.

Harry


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  #12  
Old July 17th 05, 03:47 PM
Homer
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"Woodchuck" > wrote in message
...
> Not here in the USA anyways. Got any pictures?



http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...s/8_01_vol.htm
Unfortunately they only sold 250 of them.


  #13  
Old July 18th 05, 03:13 AM
Matt B.
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"Harry" > wrote in message
...
> "Matt B." > wrote
>
>> The 5 in the Jetta and NB is not a 'V'. it's an inline 5.

>
> Not to say it is the same size, but VW has had an inline 5 as way back as
> 1985 (?) in the Quantum and Quantum Syncro, sedan and wagon.


It first appeared around 1983 in the Quantum GL5 sedan. It basically was an
Audi unit because the Quantum (B2 Passat) was build on the Audi 80/4000
platform. It was a 2.2L unit if memory serves me correctly.

VW also fitted the Eurovan witha 2.5L 5-cylinder engine that was
Audi-derived but wasn't found (the exact same engine anyway) in any Audi
product.

And the current 2.5L in the Jetta is also a 2.5 unit. Definitely a
different head than the Eurovan engine. Not sure about the block though.


  #14  
Old July 18th 05, 06:21 PM
Mike Smith
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Homer wrote:
> "Woodchuck" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>I don't see how the NB can fit the 5 cylinder. But then again anything's
>>possible with VW's wisdom.

>
>
>
> They made 3.2L V6 Beetles so I don't see why the V5 wouldn't fit.


It's not the V5, it's a new inline 5, probably a little longer than the VR6.

--
Mike S
  #15  
Old July 18th 05, 06:22 PM
Mike Smith
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Joseph Meehan wrote:
> Homer wrote:
>
>>"Woodchuck" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>I don't see how the NB can fit the 5 cylinder. But then again
>>>anything's possible with VW's wisdom.

>>
>>
>>They made 3.2L V6 Beetles so I don't see why the V5 wouldn't fit.

>
>
> V-5 Is there any such thing as an odd number V???


There is for VW. It's the VR6 with one less cylinder.

--
Mike Smith
  #16  
Old July 18th 05, 06:24 PM
Mike Smith
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Matt B. wrote:
> "Harry" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Matt B." > wrote
>>
>>
>>>The 5 in the Jetta and NB is not a 'V'. it's an inline 5.

>>
>>Not to say it is the same size, but VW has had an inline 5 as way back as
>>1985 (?) in the Quantum and Quantum Syncro, sedan and wagon.

>
>
> It first appeared around 1983 in the Quantum GL5 sedan. It basically was an
> Audi unit because the Quantum (B2 Passat) was build on the Audi 80/4000
> platform. It was a 2.2L unit if memory serves me correctly.
>
> VW also fitted the Eurovan witha 2.5L 5-cylinder engine that was
> Audi-derived but wasn't found (the exact same engine anyway) in any Audi
> product.
>
> And the current 2.5L in the Jetta is also a 2.5 unit. Definitely a
> different head than the Eurovan engine. Not sure about the block though.


From what I've read, VW claims the current 2.5L I5 is an all-new
design. In fact, they say it's (loosely) based on half a Lamborghini
V10, but I don't buy that. Maybe the bore and stroke, but that's about it.

--
Mike Smith
  #17  
Old July 20th 05, 08:36 AM
Matt B.
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"Mike Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Matt B. wrote:
>> And the current 2.5L in the Jetta is also a 2.5 unit. Definitely a
>> different head than the Eurovan engine. Not sure about the block though.

>
> From what I've read, VW claims the current 2.5L I5 is an all-new design.
> In fact, they say it's (loosely) based on half a Lamborghini V10, but I
> don't buy that. Maybe the bore and stroke, but that's about it.


Well again the head is one thing and the block is another. VW claims the
head is more or less half the Lambo's V10 but not the entire engine, hence
my comment above regarding the head vs. block..

From http://www.vw.com/jetta/features_perf.html:

"...we borrowed the cylinder head design from the Lamborghini Gallaro V10"


  #18  
Old July 20th 05, 11:18 PM
Mike Smith
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Matt B. wrote:
> "Mike Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Matt B. wrote:
>>
>>>And the current 2.5L in the Jetta is also a 2.5 unit. Definitely a
>>>different head than the Eurovan engine. Not sure about the block though.

>>
>>From what I've read, VW claims the current 2.5L I5 is an all-new design.
>>In fact, they say it's (loosely) based on half a Lamborghini V10, but I
>>don't buy that. Maybe the bore and stroke, but that's about it.

>
>
> Well again the head is one thing and the block is another. VW claims the
> head is more or less half the Lambo's V10 but not the entire engine, hence
> my comment above regarding the head vs. block..
>
> From http://www.vw.com/jetta/features_perf.html:
>
> "...we borrowed the cylinder head design from the Lamborghini Gallaro V10"


But one would think that head design would have more to do with an
engine's power and efficiency than the block does, no? So why does the
2.5L I5 make only 150 hp?

--
Mike Smith
  #19  
Old July 21st 05, 03:00 AM
Woodchuck
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I'm sure there's room for a few more in the future.



"Mike Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Matt B. wrote:
>> "Mike Smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Matt B. wrote:
>>>
>>>>And the current 2.5L in the Jetta is also a 2.5 unit. Definitely a
>>>>different head than the Eurovan engine. Not sure about the block
>>>>though.
>>>
>>>From what I've read, VW claims the current 2.5L I5 is an all-new design.
>>>In fact, they say it's (loosely) based on half a Lamborghini V10, but I
>>>don't buy that. Maybe the bore and stroke, but that's about it.

>>
>>
>> Well again the head is one thing and the block is another. VW claims the
>> head is more or less half the Lambo's V10 but not the entire engine,
>> hence my comment above regarding the head vs. block..
>>
>> From http://www.vw.com/jetta/features_perf.html:
>>
>> "...we borrowed the cylinder head design from the Lamborghini Gallaro
>> V10"

>
> But one would think that head design would have more to do with an
> engine's power and efficiency than the block does, no? So why does the
> 2.5L I5 make only 150 hp?
>
> --
> Mike Smith



  #20  
Old July 21st 05, 05:05 AM
Matt B.
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"Mike Smith" > wrote in message
...
> But one would think that head design would have more to do with an
> engine's power and efficiency than the block does, no? So why does the
> 2.5L I5 make only 150 hp?


I'm not an expert on the subject but the head itself is most likely one of
only several components that goven HP. Slapping one of two Lambo heads on
an inline block of the same size doesn't necessarily mean that the engine
itself is 1/2 of the Lambo's HP (so 250) because of other factors that could
be going on.

A few googles turned up that the Lambo and Jetta are about the same bore and
stroke. However look at the compression ratio...Lambo 11:1, Jetta 9.5:1.
That's gotta have something to do with it (and the Jetta not needing premium
fuel).

The Jetta also could have conservative ECU settings as well. It doesn't
require premium fuel so the timing settings are tuned for that and not for
power. It's been rumored that this engine is not currently tuned to it's
full potential and there's quite a bit of room to grow there.

So what I'm getting at is that all things equal the Jetta probably would be
250HP. But there's enough going on that it makes the Jetta 150hp instead.
Now whether a loss of 100hp compared to 1/2 of the Lambo's engine is too
much given those other differences, I couldn't really say, but they
definitely come into play.

Also note that VW has never been in a HP race with the competition. All out
HP is not what VW is about with their passenger cars. VW has usually tuned
its cars (we're talking the non-high-performance ones like Jettas and Golfs
and not cars like the R32) for an overall balance suited to daily driving
and not balls-to-the-wall racing. HP isn't everything when it comes to
everyday driving.


 




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