Thinking about a 300C, 300C AWD, TL, RL. Experiences please

On Sun, 15 May 2005 22:52:47 -0400, MoPar Man wrote:

It's not a toy, they are absolutely indispensable. I have a handheld, a
Garmin GPS V. I couldn't go anywhere without it. However it's slow, has a
tiny memory and it's hard to read because the screen is so slow. The
built in units can recalculate the route instantly (the Garmin takes a
couple of minutes), they have the entire country in their memory, have big
easy to read screens, voice output, and a better antenna.

MoPar Man wrote:


> It's a toy, like the stereo system with 11 speakers and 300 watts (the
> last time I had a CD in my 300m's 4-CD changer was a few years ago).

Agreed! I'd never base a car-buying decision on something as trivial as
a nav system, stereo, or electric turnip-twaddler. Engine, suspension,
drivetrain, chassis- that's where to look because that's the foundation
that everything else is built on, and that's were the 300 trumps the
competition.

I have a 2005 TL I trade in my 2002 TL Type S, I can tell you the 2005 is
better in everyway. It is solid, great interior gets about 22 mpg in NY
mostly stop & go. My 2002 got 29 on the open road.
I simply wouldn't by an American car. I also had a 1986 Chrysler Turbo
Lebaron. I remember the ads where it out handled, out accelerated ..out
everything a BMW.
What they forgot to tell you is that the power windows would break every
three months.
The repair would last only 3 months. In between repair the windows were
duct taped in the up position so they would fall down into the doors. That's
the last American car I will own.
The Acura will feel & ride the same 5 years from now, do you think the 300C
will? What about trade in value? You can't go wrong with the TL.

"General Schvantzkoph" > wrote in message
news
> I'm about to buy a new car in the next few weeks. I test drove a number of
> cars yesterday and I'm torn between the Chrysler 300C AWD and the Acura
> TL. Here are my impressions of the cars that I drove, listed in the order
> that I tried them.
>
> Toyata Avalon. Good driving experience but nothing special, great gas
> mileage for a car this size. Horrible ergonomics, the CD player and NAV
> system use tilt out control panels. The user interface to the NAV system
> was the worst of any car I drove. To put a CD into the player involves
> having a front panel lift itself up and then having to reach over it. The
> UI issues are a deal breaker.
>
> Toyota Camry. Driving experience not as good as the Avalon. Better Nav
> system then the Avalon. Not a particularly interesting car.
>
> Chrysler 300C AWD. I drove a 300C last year but I'm afraid of owning a RWD
> car in New England, they now have a AWD version which is what I tried
> yesterday. The high on this car is the driving experience, it's in a
> completely different class then everything else I've driven. The handling
> is awesome, it's quiet and smooth and the performance is incredible, too
> good in fact, the acceleration is so quick and the feel is so smooth that
> you risk going to prison. With every other car I tried when I put my foot
> down a little (I didn't floor any of them) they jumped up to 80MPH and
> they got a little rough. When I touched the gas on the 300C I was at
> 100MPH and I only knew it because I was looking at the speedometer. The
> other high point is that it's comfortable, by far the most comfortable
> seat of any car I tried. The NAV system is better than the Avalon's but
> not as good as the TL's. It lacks a touch screen and uses a joy stick
> which I don't like. Unfortunately the 300C has some down sides. One is the
> looks, it's a pimp car there are no two ways about that. Another is the
> visibility which is very poor towards the rear and mediocre in the other
> directions. However that didn't feel as bad to me this year as it did when
> I test drove a 300C last year. Also this seems to be a common problem
> these days, the Avalon also had a tiny rear window. Finally there is the
> fuel consumption issue, the demonstrator that I drove was averaging 16MPG.
> The car is rated 17City, 25Highway, and it needs premium gas. One way to
> rationalize this is that I figure the 300C will consume an extra 200
> gallons a year over a TL which is only $500 at todays prices and is only
> $1000 if the price of gas goes up to $5 gallon.
>
> Honda Accord and Honda Accord Hybrid. These are terrible cars. I was very
> surprised, I was expecting that they would be superb. The engines in both
> are very rough and noisy. The acceleration was good, especially in the
> hybrid, but I couldn't get over how rough they felt. The seat was also
> just terrible. There is a lumbar support mechanism that was out and out
> painful even with it cranked down as far as it could go.
>
> Acura TL. Even though it is related to the Accord it's a vastly better
> car. The driving experience is very good but not in the same class as the
> 300C. The seat shared a little of the same problems as the Accord but it
> was tolerable. The NAV system is great. It has a touch screen and voice
> recognition. The car also comes with bluetooth standard. Overall they did
> a great job with the electronics, these are the features that I like best
> about the car. The downside is that it's a little on the small side. Also
> it doesn't come in all wheel drive but my current car is FWD and it's
> handled our winters just fine. The gas mileage is OK, not great for a car
> this small, but respectable especially considering the fact that it has a
> fairly powerful engine.
>
> Acura RL. The driving experience is very good but overall I didn't like
> the car as much as the TL. The NAV system is placed higher up on the dash
> where it is harder to see and which precludes the use of a touch screen.
> It does have voice recognition but overall it's a step in the wrong
> direction. The RL is AWD which is it's one plus over the TL but I don't
> think AWD is worth an extra $15K.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> I'm interested in hearing from owners of the 300C and TL. For 300 owners
> I'm especially in if you have found the poor visibility to be a problem.
> How hard is it to parallel park? What gas mileage are you getting? How
> reliable has it been? From TL owners I'd like to hear you general
> impressions. How well does it handle snow, 270HP is a lot in FWD car, is
> this a problem in the winter?
>
>
>

You must have had a bad dealer and you are blaming Chrysler for bad local
service. I've seen lots of LeBaron's over the years and none had duct tape
holding up the windows. Many are still on the road.


"JOSEPH Castro" > wrote in message
news:H0wie.7703$n95.449@trndny08...
>I have a 2005 TL I trade in my 2002 TL Type S, I can tell you the 2005 is
>better in everyway. It is solid, great interior gets about 22 mpg in NY
>mostly stop & go. My 2002 got 29 on the open road.
> I simply wouldn't by an American car. I also had a 1986 Chrysler Turbo
> Lebaron. I remember the ads where it out handled, out accelerated ..out
> everything a BMW.
> What they forgot to tell you is that the power windows would break every
> three months.
> The repair would last only 3 months. In between repair the windows were
> duct taped in the up position so they would fall down into the doors.
> That's the last American car I will own.
> The Acura will feel & ride the same 5 years from now, do you think the
> 300C will? What about trade in value? You can't go wrong with the TL.
>
> "General Schvantzkoph" > wrote in message
> news
>> I'm about to buy a new car in the next few weeks. I test drove a number
>> of
>> cars yesterday and I'm torn between the Chrysler 300C AWD and the Acura
>> TL. Here are my impressions of the cars that I drove, listed in the order
>> that I tried them.
>>
>> Toyata Avalon. Good driving experience but nothing special, great gas
>> mileage for a car this size. Horrible ergonomics, the CD player and NAV
>> system use tilt out control panels. The user interface to the NAV system
>> was the worst of any car I drove. To put a CD into the player involves
>> having a front panel lift itself up and then having to reach over it. The
>> UI issues are a deal breaker.
>>
>> Toyota Camry. Driving experience not as good as the Avalon. Better Nav
>> system then the Avalon. Not a particularly interesting car.
>>
>> Chrysler 300C AWD. I drove a 300C last year but I'm afraid of owning a
>> RWD
>> car in New England, they now have a AWD version which is what I tried
>> yesterday. The high on this car is the driving experience, it's in a
>> completely different class then everything else I've driven. The handling
>> is awesome, it's quiet and smooth and the performance is incredible, too
>> good in fact, the acceleration is so quick and the feel is so smooth that
>> you risk going to prison. With every other car I tried when I put my foot
>> down a little (I didn't floor any of them) they jumped up to 80MPH and
>> they got a little rough. When I touched the gas on the 300C I was at
>> 100MPH and I only knew it because I was looking at the speedometer. The
>> other high point is that it's comfortable, by far the most comfortable
>> seat of any car I tried. The NAV system is better than the Avalon's but
>> not as good as the TL's. It lacks a touch screen and uses a joy stick
>> which I don't like. Unfortunately the 300C has some down sides. One is
>> the
>> looks, it's a pimp car there are no two ways about that. Another is the
>> visibility which is very poor towards the rear and mediocre in the other
>> directions. However that didn't feel as bad to me this year as it did
>> when
>> I test drove a 300C last year. Also this seems to be a common problem
>> these days, the Avalon also had a tiny rear window. Finally there is the
>> fuel consumption issue, the demonstrator that I drove was averaging
>> 16MPG.
>> The car is rated 17City, 25Highway, and it needs premium gas. One way to
>> rationalize this is that I figure the 300C will consume an extra 200
>> gallons a year over a TL which is only $500 at todays prices and is only
>> $1000 if the price of gas goes up to $5 gallon.
>>
>> Honda Accord and Honda Accord Hybrid. These are terrible cars. I was very
>> surprised, I was expecting that they would be superb. The engines in both
>> are very rough and noisy. The acceleration was good, especially in the
>> hybrid, but I couldn't get over how rough they felt. The seat was also
>> just terrible. There is a lumbar support mechanism that was out and out
>> painful even with it cranked down as far as it could go.
>>
>> Acura TL. Even though it is related to the Accord it's a vastly better
>> car. The driving experience is very good but not in the same class as the
>> 300C. The seat shared a little of the same problems as the Accord but it
>> was tolerable. The NAV system is great. It has a touch screen and voice
>> recognition. The car also comes with bluetooth standard. Overall they did
>> a great job with the electronics, these are the features that I like best
>> about the car. The downside is that it's a little on the small side. Also
>> it doesn't come in all wheel drive but my current car is FWD and it's
>> handled our winters just fine. The gas mileage is OK, not great for a car
>> this small, but respectable especially considering the fact that it has a
>> fairly powerful engine.
>>
>> Acura RL. The driving experience is very good but overall I didn't like
>> the car as much as the TL. The NAV system is placed higher up on the dash
>> where it is harder to see and which precludes the use of a touch screen.
>> It does have voice recognition but overall it's a step in the wrong
>> direction. The RL is AWD which is it's one plus over the TL but I don't
>> think AWD is worth an extra $15K.
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> I'm interested in hearing from owners of the 300C and TL. For 300 owners
>> I'm especially in if you have found the poor visibility to be a problem.
>> How hard is it to parallel park? What gas mileage are you getting? How
>> reliable has it been? From TL owners I'd like to hear you general
>> impressions. How well does it handle snow, 270HP is a lot in FWD car, is
>> this a problem in the winter?
>>
>>
>>
>
>

JOSEPH Castro wrote:

> I have a 2005 TL I trade in my 2002 TL Type S, I can tell you the 2005 is
> better in everyway. It is solid, great interior gets about 22 mpg in NY
> mostly stop & go. My 2002 got 29 on the open road.
> I simply wouldn't by an American car. I also had a 1986 Chrysler Turbo
> Lebaron. I remember the ads where it out handled, out accelerated ..out
> everything a BMW.
> What they forgot to tell you is that the power windows would break every
> three months.

That was 1986. You DO realize that was 20 years ago, don't you? How many
parts do you think an 86 LeBaron shares with a 2005 300C? And aside from
that I see a lot of 1986 LeBarons are still on the road (power window
problems notwithstanding). More than I see 1986 Honda products, in fact.

> The repair would last only 3 months. In between repair the windows were
> duct taped in the up position so they would fall down into the doors. That's
> the last American car I will own.

Your loss, not mine. If you want to live 20 years in the past, be my guest.


> The Acura will feel & ride the same 5 years from now, do you think the 300C
> will?

I think the 300C will ride and feel the same TEN years and 240,000 miles
from now, if my wife's 1993 Chrysler product is any example.

Then by all means,,buy the Chrysler...good luck.
"Art" > wrote in message
news
> You must have had a bad dealer and you are blaming Chrysler for bad local
> service. I've seen lots of LeBaron's over the years and none had duct
> tape holding up the windows. Many are still on the road.
>
>
> "JOSEPH Castro" > wrote in message
> news:H0wie.7703$n95.449@trndny08...
>>I have a 2005 TL I trade in my 2002 TL Type S, I can tell you the 2005 is
>>better in everyway. It is solid, great interior gets about 22 mpg in NY
>>mostly stop & go. My 2002 got 29 on the open road.
>> I simply wouldn't by an American car. I also had a 1986 Chrysler Turbo
>> Lebaron. I remember the ads where it out handled, out accelerated ..out
>> everything a BMW.
>> What they forgot to tell you is that the power windows would break every
>> three months.
>> The repair would last only 3 months. In between repair the windows were
>> duct taped in the up position so they would fall down into the doors.
>> That's the last American car I will own.
>> The Acura will feel & ride the same 5 years from now, do you think the
>> 300C will? What about trade in value? You can't go wrong with the TL.
>>
>> "General Schvantzkoph" > wrote in message
>> news
>>> I'm about to buy a new car in the next few weeks. I test drove a number
>>> of
>>> cars yesterday and I'm torn between the Chrysler 300C AWD and the Acura
>>> TL. Here are my impressions of the cars that I drove, listed in the
>>> order
>>> that I tried them.
>>>
>>> Toyata Avalon. Good driving experience but nothing special, great gas
>>> mileage for a car this size. Horrible ergonomics, the CD player and NAV
>>> system use tilt out control panels. The user interface to the NAV system
>>> was the worst of any car I drove. To put a CD into the player involves
>>> having a front panel lift itself up and then having to reach over it.
>>> The
>>> UI issues are a deal breaker.
>>>
>>> Toyota Camry. Driving experience not as good as the Avalon. Better Nav
>>> system then the Avalon. Not a particularly interesting car.
>>>
>>> Chrysler 300C AWD. I drove a 300C last year but I'm afraid of owning a
>>> RWD
>>> car in New England, they now have a AWD version which is what I tried
>>> yesterday. The high on this car is the driving experience, it's in a
>>> completely different class then everything else I've driven. The
>>> handling
>>> is awesome, it's quiet and smooth and the performance is incredible, too
>>> good in fact, the acceleration is so quick and the feel is so smooth
>>> that
>>> you risk going to prison. With every other car I tried when I put my
>>> foot
>>> down a little (I didn't floor any of them) they jumped up to 80MPH and
>>> they got a little rough. When I touched the gas on the 300C I was at
>>> 100MPH and I only knew it because I was looking at the speedometer. The
>>> other high point is that it's comfortable, by far the most comfortable
>>> seat of any car I tried. The NAV system is better than the Avalon's but
>>> not as good as the TL's. It lacks a touch screen and uses a joy stick
>>> which I don't like. Unfortunately the 300C has some down sides. One is
>>> the
>>> looks, it's a pimp car there are no two ways about that. Another is the
>>> visibility which is very poor towards the rear and mediocre in the other
>>> directions. However that didn't feel as bad to me this year as it did
>>> when
>>> I test drove a 300C last year. Also this seems to be a common problem
>>> these days, the Avalon also had a tiny rear window. Finally there is the
>>> fuel consumption issue, the demonstrator that I drove was averaging
>>> 16MPG.
>>> The car is rated 17City, 25Highway, and it needs premium gas. One way to
>>> rationalize this is that I figure the 300C will consume an extra 200
>>> gallons a year over a TL which is only $500 at todays prices and is only
>>> $1000 if the price of gas goes up to $5 gallon.
>>>
>>> Honda Accord and Honda Accord Hybrid. These are terrible cars. I was
>>> very
>>> surprised, I was expecting that they would be superb. The engines in
>>> both
>>> are very rough and noisy. The acceleration was good, especially in the
>>> hybrid, but I couldn't get over how rough they felt. The seat was also
>>> just terrible. There is a lumbar support mechanism that was out and out
>>> painful even with it cranked down as far as it could go.
>>>
>>> Acura TL. Even though it is related to the Accord it's a vastly better
>>> car. The driving experience is very good but not in the same class as
>>> the
>>> 300C. The seat shared a little of the same problems as the Accord but it
>>> was tolerable. The NAV system is great. It has a touch screen and voice
>>> recognition. The car also comes with bluetooth standard. Overall they
>>> did
>>> a great job with the electronics, these are the features that I like
>>> best
>>> about the car. The downside is that it's a little on the small side.
>>> Also
>>> it doesn't come in all wheel drive but my current car is FWD and it's
>>> handled our winters just fine. The gas mileage is OK, not great for a
>>> car
>>> this small, but respectable especially considering the fact that it has
>>> a
>>> fairly powerful engine.
>>>
>>> Acura RL. The driving experience is very good but overall I didn't like
>>> the car as much as the TL. The NAV system is placed higher up on the
>>> dash
>>> where it is harder to see and which precludes the use of a touch screen.
>>> It does have voice recognition but overall it's a step in the wrong
>>> direction. The RL is AWD which is it's one plus over the TL but I don't
>>> think AWD is worth an extra $15K.
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> I'm interested in hearing from owners of the 300C and TL. For 300 owners
>>> I'm especially in if you have found the poor visibility to be a problem.
>>> How hard is it to parallel park? What gas mileage are you getting? How
>>> reliable has it been? From TL owners I'd like to hear you general
>>> impressions. How well does it handle snow, 270HP is a lot in FWD car, is
>>> this a problem in the winter?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Steve, You must live in a very exclusive part of town to see so many 86
Chrysler Lebaron's. But all means buy the 300C. BTW, your life is the sum
of your past experiences. Why some day you may even be married for 20
years, who knows.
"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> JOSEPH Castro wrote:
>
>> I have a 2005 TL I trade in my 2002 TL Type S, I can tell you the 2005 is
>> better in everyway. It is solid, great interior gets about 22 mpg in NY
>> mostly stop & go. My 2002 got 29 on the open road.
>> I simply wouldn't by an American car. I also had a 1986 Chrysler Turbo
>> Lebaron. I remember the ads where it out handled, out accelerated ..out
>> everything a BMW.
>> What they forgot to tell you is that the power windows would break every
>> three months.
>
> That was 1986. You DO realize that was 20 years ago, don't you? How many
> parts do you think an 86 LeBaron shares with a 2005 300C? And aside from
> that I see a lot of 1986 LeBarons are still on the road (power window
> problems notwithstanding). More than I see 1986 Honda products, in fact.
>
>> The repair would last only 3 months. In between repair the windows were
>> duct taped in the up position so they would fall down into the doors.
>> That's the last American car I will own.
>
> Your loss, not mine. If you want to live 20 years in the past, be my
> guest.
>
>
>> The Acura will feel & ride the same 5 years from now, do you think the
>> 300C will?
>
> I think the 300C will ride and feel the same TEN years and 240,000 miles
> from now, if my wife's 1993 Chrysler product is any example.

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> JOSEPH Castro wrote:
>
>> I have a 2005 TL I trade in my 2002 TL Type S, I can tell you the 2005 is
>> better in everyway. It is solid, great interior gets about 22 mpg in NY
>> mostly stop & go. My 2002 got 29 on the open road.
>> I simply wouldn't by an American car. I also had a 1986 Chrysler Turbo
>> Lebaron. I remember the ads where it out handled, out accelerated ..out
>> everything a BMW.
>> What they forgot to tell you is that the power windows would break every
>> three months.
>
> That was 1986. You DO realize that was 20 years ago, don't you? How many
> parts do you think an 86 LeBaron shares with a 2005 300C? And aside from
> that I see a lot of 1986 LeBarons are still on the road (power window
> problems notwithstanding). More than I see 1986 Honda products, in fact.
>
>> The repair would last only 3 months. In between repair the windows were
>> duct taped in the up position so they would fall down into the doors.
>> That's the last American car I will own.
>
I had an '84 Chrysler 600ES - essentially a LeBaron - with the Mitsubishi
2.6. It was a terrible car. The windows didn't fall down, but the driver's
window jammed every few months. Far, far worse was the Mitsubishi power
train... don't get me started. The chassis was no blessing, either. I spent
an entire day tracking down a wiring short in the lights to find it was a
wire in the passenger door that had been banging against a metal edge until
it cut through the insulation. The headliner started to fall nearly the day
the warranty expired. The CV boots lasted nearly 4 years, so I guess I
shouldn't complain much. But I traded the car and got nearly nothing for it
when it was 6 years old and needed a new timing chain. Step 1: remove
engine. The clearance in the car was not enough to remove the timing chain
cover, and remounting the engine required a special alignment jig to prevent
destroying the torque converter from misalignment (that happened to a
friend's 600). It was obviously designed by people who wanted it to sell and
didn't care what the ownership experience was after that.

Maybe they have changed their ways, but I'd be a fool to take the chance.

Mike

Joe wrote:

> Steve, You must live in a very exclusive part of town to see so many 86
> Chrysler Lebaron's.

Or maybe they just last longer than Honduhs.

> But all means buy the 300C.

If my previous Chrysler products actually needed replacement... I
would!! (Actually, I'd buy a Magnum- I like the styling better).

> BTW, your life is the sum
> of your past experiences. Why some day you may even be married for 20
> years, who knows.

Uh. Yeah. Maybe the price of tea in China is up this week... or not.


> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>JOSEPH Castro wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have a 2005 TL I trade in my 2002 TL Type S, I can tell you the 2005 is
>>>better in everyway. It is solid, great interior gets about 22 mpg in NY
>>>mostly stop & go. My 2002 got 29 on the open road.
>>>I simply wouldn't by an American car. I also had a 1986 Chrysler Turbo
>>>Lebaron. I remember the ads where it out handled, out accelerated ..out
>>>everything a BMW.
>>>What they forgot to tell you is that the power windows would break every
>>>three months.
>>
>>That was 1986. You DO realize that was 20 years ago, don't you? How many
>>parts do you think an 86 LeBaron shares with a 2005 300C? And aside from
>>that I see a lot of 1986 LeBarons are still on the road (power window
>>problems notwithstanding). More than I see 1986 Honda products, in fact.
>>
>>
>>>The repair would last only 3 months. In between repair the windows were
>>>duct taped in the up position so they would fall down into the doors.
>>>That's the last American car I will own.
>>
>>Your loss, not mine. If you want to live 20 years in the past, be my
>>guest.
>>
>>
>>
>>>The Acura will feel & ride the same 5 years from now, do you think the
>>>300C will?
>>
>>I think the 300C will ride and feel the same TEN years and 240,000 miles
>>from now, if my wife's 1993 Chrysler product is any example.
>
>
>

On Sun, 15 May 2005 19:04:25 -0400, General Schvantzkoph
> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 May 2005 18:20:54 -0400, Peter A. Stavrakoglou wrote:
>
>> "General Schvantzkoph" > wrote in message
>> news
>>>
>>> The difference between the 3.5 and the Hemi is only 1MPG. Frankly the
>>> whole reason to get a 300 is the Hemi, that's what distinguishes it.
>>> The styling is awful but the driving experience is incredible. If you put
>>> an ordinary engine in it it would still be an ugly car, but it would
>>> be a slow ugly car.
>>>
>>> The Ford 500 doesn't have a NAV system so I won't even look at it.
>>
>> You either love the styling of the 300 or you hate it. I wouldn't buy any
>> car I considered ugly, I'm puzzled why you would consider a car you think is
>> so ugly. BTW, my 300C does not require premium gas, only mid-grade. Are
>> you sure the 300C AWD requires premium? As for having AWD in New England,
>> that's a wise decision on your part. I kept the 300C in the garage here on
>> Long Island after the first time I drove it in the snow.
>
>I have two reasons for considering the 300C even though I don't like the
>styling. 1st I've been happy with Chryslers, I had a LeBaron GTS Turbo in
>the 80s and it was a decent car for the money. I'm currently driving a 94
>Concord 3.5L which was a wonderful car in it's youth. It's on it's last
>legs now, it needs a complete brake job, probably shocks, the engine has
>gotten rough, the air conditioning is dead, and I've just had the
>transmission rebuilt for the second time (the first rebuild lasted two
>months). I'm not going to throw anymore money into it.

Wait, wait, wait... You're telling me that you're considering buying
another car from the same company that made you rebuild a whole
transmission twice in 11 years? I drive a 1994 Civic DX, which I drive
like I stole it. It has 188,000 miles and still has the original
clutch, shocks, springs, and drums. I only just recently had to
replace the radiator for $100. The most money I ever spent on a repair
was $385 to replace the A/C compressor. If my Civic gave me half the
trouble your Concord did, I would never buy a Honda again. Think about
it.

Nate