Unmodified gasoline engines running off seawater?

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 01:22:54 -0500, James Masologites > wrote:
>Found this, sounded good, has anyone else heard of this? Running an
>unmodified gasoline engine off hydrogen thats created from seawater and
>an "inexpensive metal alloy"?

>http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/...0car2.htm#note

Wanna buy a bridge?

Engines can be set up to run on hydrogen, no question of it.
Buses in one major European airport already run on hydrogen powered engines,
as a practical experiment.

Getting and storing the hydrogen is another matter. There is no free lunch.
To get the hydrogen from oil or water, you have to put in energy. You can
get the energy from solar electricity, from separation of hydrogen from air,
corrosion reactions of metals above the electrode potential of hydrogen and
water, decomposition of natural gas, etc. But none of it is free.

To release hydrogen using some metal or alloy is no problem...but you
have to pay the piper to make the metal in the first place. It is not a
catalytic reaction, but rather a stoichiometric one.

Hydrogen is storable, but the technology is not trivial.




"James Masologites" > wrote in message
...
> Found this, sounded good, has anyone else heard of this? Running an
> unmodified gasoline engine off hydrogen thats created from seawater and
> an "inexpensive metal alloy"?
>
> http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/...0car2.htm#note

So who is winning the race company-wise?Investment minded considerations,
will it ever be mainstream?
"HLS" > wrote in message
...
> Engines can be set up to run on hydrogen, no question of it.
> Buses in one major European airport already run on hydrogen powered
engines,
> as a practical experiment.
>
> Getting and storing the hydrogen is another matter. There is no free
lunch.
> To get the hydrogen from oil or water, you have to put in energy. You can
> get the energy from solar electricity, from separation of hydrogen from
air,
> corrosion reactions of metals above the electrode potential of hydrogen
and
> water, decomposition of natural gas, etc. But none of it is free.
>
> To release hydrogen using some metal or alloy is no problem...but you
> have to pay the piper to make the metal in the first place. It is not a
> catalytic reaction, but rather a stoichiometric one.
>
> Hydrogen is storable, but the technology is not trivial.
>
>
>
>
> "James Masologites" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Found this, sounded good, has anyone else heard of this? Running an
> > unmodified gasoline engine off hydrogen thats created from seawater and
> > an "inexpensive metal alloy"?
> >
> > http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/...0car2.htm#note
>
>
>

"James Masologites" > wrote in message
...
> Found this, sounded good, has anyone else heard of this? Running an
> unmodified gasoline engine off hydrogen thats created from seawater and
> an "inexpensive metal alloy"?
>
> http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/...0car2.htm#note

I think the following quote from the webpage shows just how much validity
any of their claims may have. It must be rough breathing that air with only
6 or 7 percent oxygen. ;-)

"The environment is experiencing tremendous problems at the moment, and one
of the most serious of these is that we are losing our oxygen. The oxygen
content of the air is becoming so low that it threatens our very existence
in some areas. The normal oxygen content of our air is 21 percent. But in
some places it is only a fraction of that! In Tokyo, Japan, for example, the
oxygen content of the air has dipped to 6 or 7 percent. If it reaches 5
percent, people will begin to die. Tokyo has even put oxygen disbursement
centers on its street corners, so that people can get emergency oxygen if
they need it."

Great website. A classic illustration of scientific BS and double-talk.

Just one of many utterly stupid statements:
"Hydrogen: This fuel is complete in itself.
It does not need oxygen from the atmosphere to burn."

Just how does the hydrogen burn? If it doesn't "need oxygen from the air",
then it needs oxygen from somewhere else (much more expensive) or a substitute
for oxygen (probably more expensive) if we use a more liberal definition of
"burn." The second statement is correct only if the oxygen is coming from
another source such as hydrogen peroxide, very concentrated ozone, nitro
(nitromethane) or something similar. Or, the hydrogen is "oxidized/burned"
(in a more liberal definition of oxidize/burn) using expensive chemicals such
as the halogens (fluorine, chlorine, etc.), potassium permanganate, etc.

Also, a very basic high school chemistry or physics book is going to explain
that the amount of energy expended to extract the hydrogen from the water
is always greater than the amount of available energy that is delivered when
the hydrogen is burned.

This certainly reminds me of the 200 mpg secret carberator, the special
little magnets on the fuel line which magically line up the gasoline
molecules on the way to the engine, the secret perpetual motion machine which
runs forever using the now "banned" freons R-12 and R-22, etc. Or the famous
theory that a power inverter can be run off of a car battery, a battery charger
plugged into the inverter and the battery recharged via the charger. Free
energy is then tapped off of the second power outlet on the inverter. Wow.
And we are wasting money building expensive powerplant when unlimited free
power is available from a battery-inverter-charger setup?


===============================

James Masologites wrote in message ...
Found this, sounded good, has anyone else heard of this? Running an
unmodified gasoline engine off hydrogen thats created from seawater and
an "inexpensive metal alloy"?

http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/...0car2.htm#note

James Masologites wrote:
>
> Found this, sounded good, has anyone else heard of this? Running an
> unmodified gasoline engine off hydrogen thats created from seawater and
> an "inexpensive metal alloy"?
>
> http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/...0car2.htm#note

Drop a piece of zinc into HCl and you get H2.
Most of what is on that page is either misleading or lies.
Go to the library and read up on basic chemistry.

« Paul » wrote:
> James Masologites wrote:
>
>>Found this, sounded good, has anyone else heard of this? Running an
>>unmodified gasoline engine off hydrogen thats created from seawater and
>>an "inexpensive metal alloy"?
>>
>>http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/...0car2.htm#note
>
>
> Drop a piece of zinc into HCl and you get H2.
> Most of what is on that page is either misleading or lies.
> Go to the library and read up on basic chemistry.

I'm aware of basic chemistry and that the stuff talking about
replenishing our oxygen supply was bull****. but if the metal alloy is
really as cheap as the site claims, and if the reaction forms H2 like
the site claims, salt water and this mysterious alloy seem to have
potential.

James Masologites wrote:
>
> I'm aware of basic chemistry and that the stuff talking about
> replenishing our oxygen supply was bull****. but if the metal alloy is
> really as cheap as the site claims, and if the reaction forms H2 like
> the site claims, salt water and this mysterious alloy seem to have
> potential.

Mysterious alloy - bull. In order to liberate hydrogen you have to
break the H=0=H bonding. To do that with efficiency would either
require an alkali metal or energy pumped into the system.
Alkali metals take a LOT of energy to produce.

James Masologites wrote:

> « Paul » wrote:
>
>> James Masologites wrote:
>>
>>> Found this, sounded good, has anyone else heard of this? Running an
>>> unmodified gasoline engine off hydrogen thats created from seawater and
>>> an "inexpensive metal alloy"?
>>>
>>> http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/...0car2.htm#note
>>
>>
>>
>> Drop a piece of zinc into HCl and you get H2.
>> Most of what is on that page is either misleading or lies.
>> Go to the library and read up on basic chemistry.
>
>
> I'm aware of basic chemistry and that the stuff talking about
> replenishing our oxygen supply was bull****. but if the metal alloy is
> really as cheap as the site claims, and if the reaction forms H2 like
> the site claims, salt water and this mysterious alloy seem to have
> potential.

Where is the energy going to come from? If it IS in the form of a metal
alloy, it comes from either a) energy stored in the alloy's components
as they are found in natural deposits (unlikely, and note that this
would be even more environmentally disastrous than burning oil if we
suddenly started strip-mining the planet to make hydrogen from our
cars!) or b) it is accounted for in the enrgy required to REFINE the
metal, and the hydrogen released only gives back a small fractin of the
energy put in in the first place!

You can't get something for nothing. Ever.

Don't laugh too hard. The o2 content of air was 30% in 1900, now it's 21%. And
that's a global average including 'virgin' Canadian wilderness. It does not
surprise me if urban areas are much below that.
I find that very alarming.

||I think the following quote from the webpage shows just how much validity
||any of their claims may have. It must be rough breathing that air with only
||6 or 7 percent oxygen. ;-)
||
||"The environment is experiencing tremendous problems at the moment, and one
||of the most serious of these is that we are losing our oxygen. The oxygen
||content of the air is becoming so low that it threatens our very existence
||in some areas. The normal oxygen content of our air is 21 percent. But in
||some places it is only a fraction of that! In Tokyo, Japan, for example, the
||oxygen content of the air has dipped to 6 or 7 percent. If it reaches 5
||percent, people will begin to die. Tokyo has even put oxygen disbursement
||centers on its street corners, so that people can get emergency oxygen if
||they need it."
||
||

Texas Parts Guy