Owner can set off sudden acceleration in a Toyota (Don't try this athome!)

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:29:31 -0500, David Z wrote:

>>> That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
>>> patrol officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down
>>> for
>>> at least 3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of
>>> the other 3 (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into
>>> neutral?
>>
>> Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position...
>
> Are you saying that you can't easily shift from drive to neutral in "the
> Sport Shift position?"

It goes through a gate to get to the sport mode. You access the gate from
the D position. You'd have to go back to D and then to N. I think it
should take less than, oh, 30 seconds or so...

>
>> ...where average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as
>> Michael Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not
>> to check the gearshift lever.
>
> I heard the 911 call a few times. He had plenty of time. At least 30
> seconds or more. I would need no more than 1 or 2 seconds to shift from
> drive to neutral.

Are You Smarter Than A CHiP? New game show!!!

I guess I shouldn't poke fun, but JEEZE!!!!

I had an accelerator lock up on me wide open once. I can't remember what
car it was, but the aircraft cable throttle cable was rusty. All I really
remember is that I found neutral FAST!!!!!!!!!!!

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:23:11 -0800, ransley wrote:

>> > Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
>> > included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
>> > this problem?
>>
>> It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.
>
> More likely he was at fault and called 911 after the accident and the car
> was stopped.

He was calling 911 and said, "My throttle is stuck!" and then asked them
to clear an intersection for him.

They didn't. He did. Taking out a truck with him.

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:57:11 -0500, David Z wrote:

> "Vic Smith" > wrote in message
> news
>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:37:47 -0500, "David Z" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
>>>patrol
>>>officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for at
>>>least
>>>3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of the other
>>>3 (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into neutral?
>>>
>> I think Tegger answered that question. Something about different shift
>> modes on the shifter. More unnecessary complication.
>
> What does that mean?
>
> Is he saying that, in some "shift mode," the ES doesn't allow you to shift
> from Drive to Neutral? at high speed? What "shift mode" would that be?

Sport mode accessed through a 'gate'. Have to move back to drive and then
to neutral.

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:21:04 -0500, "David Z" > wrote:

>"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Ad absurdum per aspera" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, NHTSA is looking at (not jumping to conclusions about,
>>> just looking at) electronic reasons for these accidents, even as the
>>> field efforts focus upon floor mats and mechanical-advantage issues
>>> regarding the pedal linkage: http://tinyurl.com/y9x5cg6
>>>
>>
>> I'm not jumping to conclusions either, but I agree that the problem is
>> related to the fly-by-wire gas pedal system more so than to the floor
>> mats. FOR THE RECORD, I don't have one of the affected vehicles, so my
>> opinion and a quarter will get you a free cup of coffee.
>>
>> My gut instinct is that there is a combination of electrical inputs that
>> is creating an error to the logic, the result being that the car is being
>> told to speed up through the computer system somehow.
>>
>> My car -- a '94 BMW -- tells me on occasion that the radio has been
>> stolen, or it has been in a wreck (the emergency flashers turn on for no
>> apparent reason), or the window rolls itself down a half-inch at a time.
>> All of this stuff comes about due to an electrical problem that I've not
>> been able to get my arms around. I can't help but wonder if the
>> fly-by-wire fuel system is being affected by a similar kind of gremlin
>> that works over my BMW from time to time.
>
>I'm not confident that Toyota has "found the problem" and "designed the fix"
>in a couple of days. The pressure they are under is more conducive to
>getting it "right away" rather than getting it right.
>
>There are a lot of unanswered questions in my mind, many of which have been
>discussed here. Here's one question that I haven't seen addressed. The
>original incident that made the news was about a highway patrol officer's
>911 call in which he was unable to stop a Lexus ES350. Why isn't the ES350
>included in the recall?
>
>The situation reminds me of the many complaints about hesitation and jerking
>in the ES330/350. For years, Lexus/Toyota has been stonewalling these
>complaints and saying that the car "performs as designed." Perhaps if they
>had listened to, and responded to, these complaints, they would have
>established the proper culture for responding to this problem.
>

There are problems with the terribly superficial reports by the media.
First off, the continual reference to a "pedal problem". The
accelerator pedal is just an inert piece of plastic and/or metal that
reacts to foot input (or carpet input). The first problem, as I
understand it through the media filter, should have been referred to a
as an aftermarket floor carpet placement problem, fixed by either
removing the carpet or shortening the pedal. The latest problem is,
apparently, a sticking linkage. The "fix" has been reported as
requiring some sort of metal shim or a or a piece of stainless steel
rod or bushing. But the media keep referring to the shorthand version
of "pedal problem". Does anyone here know what the actual mechanical
repair consists of? Too many reporters went to journalism school and
didn't learn much about actual mechanics and physics and must be under
pressure to keep it short and punchy. Reminds me of the old Audi
"unintended acceleration" problem of several years ago. That almost
killed Audi in the USA. Now it looks like Toyota is being run through
the same wringer.

Ashton Crusher wrote:

> My recollection was that after the first reports came out talking
> about a rug it was determined that the vehicle did not have any mats
> in it.

There's a neat free service called Google. Use it.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct...toyota-crash25

According to todays Tribune Newspapers, the Chairman of the House Oversight
Committee is stating Toyota will be asked about runaways problems with the
Tacoma truck.

The NHTSA has received over 100 complaints about sudden uncontrolled
accelerations problem on the Tacoma, their truck that does NOT use the same
pedal assembly as the other recalled Toyotas.

The article also refers to Japans Transport Ministry releasing that their
have been numerous complaints about "braking problems" with NEW generation
Prius. Toyota admits they are addressing braking problems in previous
Prius models but they are "unaware" of problems in the NEW generation Prius.

The ever growing issue over sudden uncontrolled acceleration in most every
type of Toyota vehicle is having a sensitizing effect on consumers around
the world and Toyotas confusing responses are not helping the situation.
Curious ah?


"dr_jeff" > wrote in message
...
>>>> Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
>>>> included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
>>>> this problem?
>>> it had a different cause of sticking accelerator: The rug. IT was
>>> covered by a different recall.
>>
>> That's where I get real skeptical. Are we supposed to believe that these
>> problems are unrelated? It's possible, but it stretches credulity.
>
> It's quite possible. We'll see.