2001 2.7 Intrepid...a deal?

In article >,
DeserTBoB > wrote:

> I note some late VW Jettas are
> also selling for just over low book everywhere except VW dealerships,
> for the same reason. I did check one of those out, and a peek inside
> the valve cover did indeed shows a nasty amount of sludge.
With VWs it's much more than sludge; VWs have been a terrible
maintenance problem. Even VW implies to that by mentioning their "much
improved" build quality recently.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 04:47:21 GMT, Just Facts >
wrote:

>That is true here as well with regard to the tax being on the
>difference, however it is well known that buying without a trade results
>in a significantly lower price on the new vehicle.
>Well more than a $100 saving.
>Trades the dealers don't want go to auction clearance sales here. <snip>

That's always been the case. When I worked at a dealership, people
would bring in their beaters and the closer would write the trade up
to the moon, showing how much the buyer would save on sales tax due to
their generous trade allowance. The buyer would hopefully be
bedazzled by this, not seeing that the selling price of the car which
he'd committed to has mysteriously jumped 2Gs or more in the process.
It's the oldest trick in the book.

What was remarkable back then was that two and three year old Datsun
1200s were coming in on trades for below low book, none of which were
very cosmetically nice looking cars, getting a quickie wash and detail
job, and going right on the front line of the used lot and were moving
on the back end the next week! People wanted that 40 MPG, never mind
the smelly interior plastic, the ****ty seating and the already
oxidized paint. At that time, the only thing going to auction were
trashed or gas guzzler US made cars...pure beaters. Salesmen could
pick up these beaters for a couple of hundred if the wholesaler didn't
show up that day. That's how I wound up with a very dirty but
otherwise very straight '62 Olds Starfire with 68K miles for $200 one
time. The sales manager just lumped it in with the rest of the
beaters, but I saw basically a very straight car that had lived out in
cowboy country a little too long. A month's worth of work and it was
pristine. Car salesman, unless it's a very good house, usually know
nothing about cars, and couldn't care less. The name of the game is
getting your bucks.

What I learned working at a dealership has stayed with me all these
years: NEVER bring in a trade, ALWAYS have cash and be prepared to
WALK if you don't get what you want. It just doesn't pay to get
"committed" to buying any car...be prepared to either take it or leave
it. If you play poker right, and floor traffic is light and sales
slow, they'll go for the skinny every time. Why? That closer needs
to eat (and he might even cut out the "up" salesman in a "turnover"
house altogether...it happens), and he'd rather take a skinny deal
over NO deal any day. When he finally figures out that you've got
cash, and some of it's supposed to be his, and you're getting into
your other car, he'll come running to the curb.

In article >,
DeserTBoB > wrote:

> Car salesman, unless it's a very good house, usually know
> nothing about cars, and couldn't care less. The name of the game is
> getting your bucks.
Exactly. They've shown their lack of real car knowledge all to often to
me. The bull S I've heard would fertilize all the farms in NA.
>
> What I learned working at a dealership has stayed with me all these
> years: NEVER bring in a trade, ALWAYS have cash and be prepared to
> WALK if you don't get what you want. It just doesn't pay to get
> "committed" to buying any car...be prepared to either take it or leave
> it. If you play poker right, and floor traffic is light and sales
> slow, they'll go for the skinny every time. Why? That closer needs
> to eat (and he might even cut out the "up" salesman in a "turnover"
> house altogether...it happens), and he'd rather take a skinny deal
> over NO deal any day. When he finally figures out that you've got
> cash, and some of it's supposed to be his, and you're getting into
> your other car, he'll come running to the curb.
Total agreement here.
After many car buying experiences I've come up with this approach which
works for me.
1) Research the cars and determine exactly what you want. Don't value
extra options you don't want.
Don't take options you don't want.
For example I never want leather seats again. I also want all weather
tires of reasonable profile, not high performance summer tires.
This eliminates some high priced cars.
2) Research local car prices to determine the minimum prices being
asked for your car. Also research prices on the Internet.
3) Go to all your desirable dealers, discuss your car requirements with
them. If you get a hard BS time, eliminate those dealers.
4) Finally go to the dealer you prefer, tell them what you want to buy
and say: "there will be no haggling and there will be one price quoted
by you and one by them, they can chose who goes first".
They usually ask me to go first. This approach has always worked and I
know I've always obtained a very good deal.

If I have a trade I don't want to sell myself I may ask them for their
offer after we agree on the new car price, although I often sell it
myself.

DeserTBoB wrote:


> ...offer her a little more than the dealer would. I really don't want to
> try to "program" her (she IS a neighbor!) but, I do like the car and
> know that the "sludging" problem wouldn't be a problem with my kind of
> maintenance.

So after your agreeing that the dealer would be scamming her out of a
grand or two by fluffing on the trade, out of the goodness of your
heart, because she is a neighbor, you're going to do her a favor by
taking that value out of it rather than point out the fluffing scam and
you are offering her $1 more than the dealer claims to be offering her
on trade. I hope she some how reads this to understand the true nature
of your "altruism". What a jerk.

If you're going to take advantage of her, then go ahead, but don't couch
it like you are doing her a favor because she is a neighbor. Admit at
least to youreslf that you're part of the scam, just without the
dealer's knowledge, and that you're not giving her "special treatment"
because she is a neighbor..

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Bill Putney wrote:
> DeserTBoB wrote:
>
>
>> ...offer her a little more than the dealer would. I really don't want to
>> try to "program" her (she IS a neighbor!) but, I do like the car and
>> know that the "sludging" problem wouldn't be a problem with my kind of
>> maintenance.
>
> So after your agreeing that the dealer would be scamming her out of a
> grand or two by fluffing on the trade, out of the goodness of your
> heart, because she is a neighbor, you're going to do her a favor by
> taking that value out of it rather than point out the fluffing scam and
> you are offering her $1 more than the dealer claims to be offering her
> on trade. I hope she some how reads this to understand the true nature
> of your "altruism". What a jerk.
>
> If you're going to take advantage of her, then go ahead, but don't couch
> it like you are doing her a favor because she is a neighbor. Admit at
> least to youreslf that you're part of the scam, just without the
> dealer's knowledge, and that you're not giving her "special treatment"
> because she is a neighbor..

Hi...

I'm lucky enough to have about the best neighbors in the world; after
25+ years much more like family than neighbors

I intend keeping it that way by being neither a seller nor a buyer

Respectfully suggest that the OP perhaps gently hint that she might
do better selling it privately (to someone else); then change the
subject to the weather, or the grandkids, or fishing, or ...

Take care.

Ken

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:11:27 GMT, Ken Weitzel >
wrote:

>I'm lucky enough to have about the best neighbors in the world; after
>25+ years much more like family than neighbors
>
>I intend keeping it that way by being neither a seller nor a buyer <snip>

Probably sage advice.
>
>Respectfully suggest that the OP perhaps gently hint that she might
>do better selling it privately (to someone else); then change the
>subject to the weather, or the grandkids, or fishing, or ...
>
>Take care. <snip>

I snipped Putney's outlashing. Those rightards are getting a bit
testy now that their political heroes are swirling down the toilet of
ignomy and their "enemy" party is taking over in a scant three weeks!

First, I don't think she can sell the car privately for more than I
can offer her in cash. 2.7L DC products are drugs on the market,
period. I just opened yesterday's LA Times, and there was a slough of
'00 2.7 Intrepids for low book and below, NONE at high book. My
offer's for midrange, NOT high book, which is around $6.1K on this
particular car.

All these "free marketeers" espouse all this "market forces" crap
until someone they don't like follows their advice. What hypocrites.
If I were being truly altruistic, I'd try to tell her that her son's
full of beans and if she just changes the oil regularly, the car will
be just fine. However, I'm not about to tell her her son's a
Putney...er, jerk...because you just don't do that. If she's going to
dump the car, she's going to dump the car, period. One cannot meddle
too deeply in other peoples' families' dynamics.

It's like when I sell this house. Realtor crooks have a new scam in
which they bring in unqualified, shady buyers from "de ghetto" and
then demand that, instead of me dropping the price of the house
$10-20K to close the deal, that I keep the price high and just pay the
unqualified buyer's closing costs. It's the same basic scam as
"fluffing the trade," and also "fluffs" the realtor's commission (as
well as boosts sales taxes.) That isn't going to happen here, but
they talked my father-in-law across the street into it, and ripped him
off for $12.5K. Hey, I tried to warn him, but you just don't tell
dumb people they're being dumb sometimes.

I offered her $5K for the car this morning. She can take it or leave
it. However, I got to thinking that if indeed she trades it in at the
Chrysler dealership, the car will probably wind up on the lot for
around the same selling (not asking) price. These cars do NOT sell
well. If I take my chances and just grind down the dealer, I can
probably get a warranty as well...IF they even will offer a warranty
on a 2.7.

Bill Putney wrote:
> DeserTBoB wrote:
>
>
> > ...offer her a little more than the dealer would. I really don't want to
> > try to "program" her (she IS a neighbor!) but, I do like the car and
> > know that the "sludging" problem wouldn't be a problem with my kind of
> > maintenance.
>
> So after your agreeing that the dealer would be scamming her out of a
> grand or two by fluffing on the trade, out of the goodness of your
> heart, because she is a neighbor, you're going to do her a favor by
> taking that value out of it rather than point out the fluffing scam and
> you are offering her $1 more than the dealer claims to be offering her
> on trade. I hope she some how reads this to understand the true nature
> of your "altruism". What a jerk.

So whenever you see something for sale that's priced lower than it's
true value you explain that the price is too low and offer more? I
doubt it. Don't be such a righteous ass.

> If you're going to take advantage of her, then go ahead, but don't couch
> it like you are doing her a favor because she is a neighbor. Admit at
> least to youreslf that you're part of the scam, just without the
> dealer's knowledge, and that you're not giving her "special treatment"
> because she is a neighbor..

Admit nothing. See above. It's not our job to educate everyone we meet
on the true value of something. It's all part of getting a good deal.
If she is happy with the price than nothing else matters. No one is
forcing her to accept it and she is free to ask others if the offer is
reasonable or not.

Charlie Deludo wrote:

> Bill Putney wrote:
>
>>DeserTBoB wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>...offer her a little more than the dealer would. I really don't want to
>>>try to "program" her (she IS a neighbor!) but, I do like the car and
>>>know that the "sludging" problem wouldn't be a problem with my kind of
>>>maintenance.
>>
>>So after your agreeing that the dealer would be scamming her out of a
>>grand or two by fluffing on the trade, out of the goodness of your
>>heart, because she is a neighbor, you're going to do her a favor by
>>taking that value out of it rather than point out the fluffing scam and
>>you are offering her $1 more than the dealer claims to be offering her
>>on trade. I hope she some how reads this to understand the true nature
>>of your "altruism". What a jerk.
>
>
> So whenever you see something for sale that's priced lower than it's
> true value you explain that the price is too low and offer more? I
> doubt it. Don't be such a righteous ass.
>
>
>>If you're going to take advantage of her, then go ahead, but don't couch
>>it like you are doing her a favor because she is a neighbor. Admit at
>>least to youreslf that you're part of the scam, just without the
>>dealer's knowledge, and that you're not giving her "special treatment"
>>because she is a neighbor..
>
>
> Admit nothing. See above. It's not our job to educate everyone we meet
> on the true value of something. It's all part of getting a good deal.
> If she is happy with the price than nothing else matters. No one is
> forcing her to accept it and she is free to ask others if the offer is
> reasonable or not.
>

Oh - I was just challenging where you said "I really don't want to try
to 'program' her (she IS a neighbor!)". I suspected you were lieing.
Thanks for confirming. But even still you don't see your own
contradiction in your behavior as well as your treatment of your
"neighbor". No doubt if you do make any further comments, you will
continue to contradict yourself in this regard (i.e., "I won't take
advantage of my neighbor, but hey - it's not my job to educate her, so
I'll take advantage of her" - and all the stuff about poor market value
is just rationalization, unless you don't believe what you said about
fluffing, so you've pretty much trapped yourself either way).

Hmmm - I though you kill-filed me. Oh well. Doesn't matter.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Bill Putney wrote:
> Charlie Deludo wrote:
>
> > Bill Putney wrote:
> >
> >>DeserTBoB wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>...offer her a little more than the dealer would. I really don't want to
> >>>try to "program" her (she IS a neighbor!) but, I do like the car and
> >>>know that the "sludging" problem wouldn't be a problem with my kind of
> >>>maintenance.
> >>
> >>So after your agreeing that the dealer would be scamming her out of a
> >>grand or two by fluffing on the trade, out of the goodness of your
> >>heart, because she is a neighbor, you're going to do her a favor by
> >>taking that value out of it rather than point out the fluffing scam and
> >>you are offering her $1 more than the dealer claims to be offering her
> >>on trade. I hope she some how reads this to understand the true nature
> >>of your "altruism". What a jerk.
> >
> >
> > So whenever you see something for sale that's priced lower than it's
> > true value you explain that the price is too low and offer more? I
> > doubt it. Don't be such a righteous ass.
> >
> >
> >>If you're going to take advantage of her, then go ahead, but don't couch
> >>it like you are doing her a favor because she is a neighbor. Admit at
> >>least to youreslf that you're part of the scam, just without the
> >>dealer's knowledge, and that you're not giving her "special treatment"
> >>because she is a neighbor..
> >
> >
> > Admit nothing. See above. It's not our job to educate everyone we meet
> > on the true value of something. It's all part of getting a good deal.
> > If she is happy with the price than nothing else matters. No one is
> > forcing her to accept it and she is free to ask others if the offer is
> > reasonable or not.
> >
>
> Oh - I was just challenging where you said "I really don't want to try
> to 'program' her (she IS a neighbor!)". I suspected you were lieing.
> Thanks for confirming. But even still you don't see your own
> contradiction in your behavior as well as your treatment of your
> "neighbor". No doubt if you do make any further comments, you will
> continue to contradict yourself in this regard (i.e., "I won't take
> advantage of my neighbor, but hey - it's not my job to educate her, so
> I'll take advantage of her" - and all the stuff about poor market value
> is just rationalization, unless you don't believe what you said about
> fluffing, so you've pretty much trapped yourself either way).
>
> Hmmm - I though you kill-filed me. Oh well. Doesn't matter.

The only thing that has been confirmed is your not as smart as you
think and you need to get something straight before you continue to
make a complete ass out of yourself.

I'm not Bob.

Bob lives in California and I live in Pennsylvania.

My statements are mine alone and do not contradict anything. I'm not
trapped.
I'm not her neighbor. I'm not taking advantage of anyone. I'm not
offering to buy anyones vehicle. I haven't killfiled anyone.

That being said, my comments still hold true. If she is happy that's
all that matters for her and I doubt you offer people more for
something that's priced lower than it's true vale.

Charlie Deludo wrote:

> I'm not Bob.

As far as I'm concerned, you and he are interchangeable. A troll is a
troll. You contribute nothing.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')