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My GT test drive thoughts



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 13th 04, 08:57 AM
PhilipS
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> The biggest surprise I got was when I test drove the 1.9 JTD. The
> performance was staggering! Loads of grunt, fantastic mid range
> acceleration, nice relaxed 6th gear motorway cruising - I was hooked and
> have ordered one as a result!
>

Maybe i need to put my outdated oil burner preconceptions to one side
and try one out!
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  #12  
Old August 13th 04, 08:59 AM
PhilipS
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> An interesting read Philip. It left me wondering if you have ever tested a
> 156 2 ltr. As the chassis and engine of that car are closer to the GT than
> the 147 1.6 and it would be interesting to hear your opinion of that too.
> I appreciate that you are not interested in buying a 156, and don't want a
> stepping stone to the GT. It would just be interesting to hear your feeling
> about the chassis/engine with the different body <G>
>
> Pete


Interesting question. I haven't driven a 156 2 litre, and would also
be interested to hear from anyone who has tried both, I would maybe
expect the GT to feel more like the 147 than the 156 because…

The 147 is a c. 4 year old design evolution of the 156; road tests I
read around the time of the 147 launch indicated that in their opinion
the 147 offered a handling/ride improvement over the 156, (primarily I
guess as a more up-to-date reworking).

Reading alfa's literature they openly describe the GT as a 156 based
coupe. Owning a 147, the GT feels very much like a 147 (partly in
terms of on-the road feel), but also shapes, curves, controls, driving
position, I would guess that in reality it is more directly 147 based
than 156 based, but for market placement they have decided not to
describe it as such?? In any event they are all evolutionary.

Anyone out there jumped a generation and tested 156 vs GT?
  #13  
Old August 13th 04, 09:12 AM
PhilipS
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"Gareth Tuckwell" > wrote in message >...
> The engine was probably extremely tight at 1100 miles - I was encouraged to
> keep it under 3000 revs until to run it in until about 1200 miles!
>
> I have a the 2.0 JTS (in my 156) with 19,000 miles on the clock and the
> engine is still loosening up now. I have really started to feel a difference
> in the last few weeks, following a 1500 mile trip through the UK and France.
>


I've done 31,000 in my 147 (1.6TS) and the engine is improving all the
time, especially in the last 10k miles. It is interesting that this
is the timesclae in which the oil consumption has also increased, not
hugely, but still more than it used to be. Philip
  #14  
Old August 13th 04, 12:46 PM
Gareth Tuckwell
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Well I am no mechanic, but I can say is that in the last 1000 - 2000 miles,
the car has started performing better than the first 16,000 miles. I was
actually rather dissapointed to be honest! There is a definite smoothness
developing now, along with a noticable increase in mid-range pick-up!

You say running-in is a thing of the past, but may still occur with modern
engines, only slowly - would you say that around 16,000 miles (about 25-26k
kilometers) is about right?

I don't think the amount of difference I have noticed lately can be
attributed to climactic changes, air pressure, new shoes or anything other
than the engine easing-in. I have no way of measuring, but there must be a
good 10-25% improvement lately.

I should add that this improvement didn't happen suddenly, it has been a
gradual improvement, so I don't think anything has gone wrong (or gone
right!).

Anyone any comments on this?



"Alfistagj" > wrote in message
news:s1qSc.5309$vH5.3434@amstwist00...
>
> "Gareth Tuckwell" > schreef in bericht
> ...
> > The engine was probably extremely tight at 1100 miles - I was encouraged

> to
> > keep it under 3000 revs until to run it in until about 1200 miles!

>
> When an incidental problem is in the car from new, it will occur within
> those first miles indepent of the way you drive it..
> Engine and gearboxes are built so precisely nowadays (perfect tolerances
> etc), that driving in isn't needed any more from a technical point of

view.
> Being careful the first 1200miles/2500km is advisable.
> Best reason: You have to get to know the car!!
>
> >
> > I have a the 2.0 JTS (in my 156) with 19,000 miles on the clock and the
> > engine is still loosening up now. I have really started to feel a

> difference
> > in the last few weeks, following a 1500 mile trip through the UK and

> France.
> >

>
> Driving in in the past was nothing else than letting all the engine

gearbox
> parts get a nice fit. In fact a kind of "wear".
> As the old way of machining all parts weren't as smooth and precise as

now,
> so the running in more or less was a in situ polishing of all engine/gear
> box components. For this reason the engines used to have special "running

in
> oil" as well as a "running in oil filter" that needed to be exchanged for
> normal oil & filter already at approx. 5000km's (3000miles)
> In those old filters you could have found a hughe amount of polish debree

as
> well i.e. casting sand that was not properly removed from the oil canal in
> the block after casting.
>
> What you will now notice is that the modern engines are 1) made to very
> tight tolerances and 2) machined very smootly and 3) made from superior
> material.
> Wear is very low, so "running in" will occur, but very very slowly.
> Where you would definately feel the engine getting "stronger" in the past
> quite quickly from new (in fact, in percentage of the total engine power

it
> could be as much as 15%!!), it will no be over a much longer period and

much
> less in %
>
> So, when you have a nice long and firm drive and after that you drive your
> normal route, it is quite reasonable that you =can feel (little) more

power.
>
> Nevertheless, I guess what you have felt is the influence of the weather
> which is immediate.
> Ambient temperature, air pressure and humidity are of great influence of

the
> power output.
> Taking into account that the average air pressure is 1013mb a normal high
> pressure zone will reach 1040mb (+2.7%) and a normal low pressure zone

980mb
> (-3.2%)
> Looking at it this way, a high pressure zone is something like a natural
> turbo!!
> So, only based on "normal" weather variations approx 6% power difference

can
> occur.
> And the higher the temperature, the lower the amount of oxygen in the air;
> oxygen eq power!!
> Humidity is also a factor as humidity can to a certain amount bind oxygen.
> --
> Ciao from Holland
> AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
> Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
> Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)
>
>



  #15  
Old August 13th 04, 09:13 PM
Alfistagj
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Default

"Gareth Tuckwell" > schreef in bericht
...
> Well I am no mechanic, but I can say is that in the last 1000 - 2000

miles,
> the car has started performing better than the first 16,000 miles. I was
> actually rather dissapointed to be honest! There is a definite smoothness
> developing now, along with a noticable increase in mid-range pick-up!
>
> You say running-in is a thing of the past, but may still occur with modern
> engines, only slowly - would you say that around 16,000 miles (about

25-26k
> kilometers) is about right?
>


Since I drive Alfa's, I found them bringing more and more power by the mile
It really starts being noticable at 30-40000km so indeed the 16000miles
could be a starting point of your performance boost.

> I don't think the amount of difference I have noticed lately can be
> attributed to climactic changes, air pressure, new shoes or anything other
> than the engine easing-in. I have no way of measuring, but there must be a
> good 10-25% improvement lately.
>


10% could well be; that is really noticable already
25% is out of the question!!

> I should add that this improvement didn't happen suddenly, it has been a
> gradual improvement, so I don't think anything has gone wrong (or gone
> right!).
>
> Anyone any comments on this?
>


Question:
Did you have a regular service done lately?
Reason why I ask:
"They say" (I have never got it confirmed) that at the first service
(20000km) the electronic setting is changed to a "after driving in" mode.
It can also be that it happens automatically at a certain mileage.
But like I said, never got it confirmed.

Question:
Did you change the petrol brand lately?
Reason why I ask:
In Germany I hear all kinds of miracle stories about Shell's new "super
fuel".
Many of them seem true and are supported by traceable facts.
10-15 kmh higher top speed etc. will calculate to 10-15% higher power!
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)


  #16  
Old August 14th 04, 11:50 PM
Grahame
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"PhilipS" > wrote in message
m...
> > The biggest surprise I got was when I test drove the 1.9 JTD. The
> > performance was staggering! Loads of grunt, fantastic mid range
> > acceleration, nice relaxed 6th gear motorway cruising - I was hooked and
> > have ordered one as a result!
> >

> Maybe i need to put my outdated oil burner preconceptions to one side
> and try one out!


Yeah - please do, I'd like to hear your thoughts. When I went for a test
drive I went to try the 2.0 JTS. I got back to the garage thinking "OK but
not great" when the salesman said "do you want to try the JTD?" I hadn't
even considered it having "oil burner preconceptions" myself. But I thought
what the hell, I'm here anyway - might as well give it a try. As you can
tell from my previous comments, I was blown away (no turbo pun intended).

Grahame.


  #17  
Old August 15th 04, 12:19 PM
Zathras
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On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:51:42 +0100, "Grahame"
> wrote:

<Snip>
>The biggest surprise I got was when I test drove the 1.9 JTD. The
>performance was staggering! Loads of grunt, fantastic mid range
>acceleration, nice relaxed 6th gear motorway cruising - I was hooked and
>have ordered one as a result!


I'm surprised that YOU'RE surprised. I've been bleating on for years
about how good the Alfa diesels are in comparison to their current 4
cylinder petrol engines.

Because they don't rev very high but deliver massive torque (in my
case more than even the GTA) they give a completely effortless but
stunning performance in normal driving. Even better, I only have to
fill her up once a month...

I, also, prefer the sound of my 5 cylinder diesel to that of the 4
cylinder petrol engines too..but that's because when I boot it, I can
still hear something interesting!!! Most Alfas are too quiet these
days. For me, the JTS has too much 'rubber belt whine'..

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)
  #18  
Old August 15th 04, 04:52 PM
Zathras
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Default

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:11:26 +0100, "Grahame"
> wrote:

<Snip>
>You're preaching to the converted now my friends I am now an official
>diesel evangelist and will bleat on extolling the virtues of the new
>generation of oil burners to anyone who'll listen.


...old petrol-heads who still think diesels are slow, smoky and noisy
won't. This is, of course, *excellent* when insurance companies still
maintain the old ideas as *policy*.

>When do you think people
>will catch on that the 0-62 times aren't the "be all and end all" of
>performance measurement?


Never.. In any case, diesels are getting well up the lists of superb
0..60 times now anyway.

>I'd be much more interested to see manufacturers /
>car mags quoting 30-50 / 50-70 in gear acceleration times as I think these
>give a much better indication of real-world performance and drivability. -


They do..but what normal person would buy a petrol car if they did?
After all, I'm pretty ordinary but, I instantly *jumped* at diesel
when I discovered this killer combination:

1/ I could significantly improve on the performance of my petrol car.
(Top speed and through the gears acceleration.)
2/ I could get better miles per gallon.

I've always found that with a comparable petrol car, while they may
improve on 1/, they can never do 1/ and 2/ at the same time with the
kind of driving I do.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)
  #19  
Old August 15th 04, 11:38 PM
Gareth Tuckwell
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Posts: n/a
Default

I have not had a service for a while - due in December, but I have
experimented with different petrol. I tried a tank of the Esso Premium (97
octane I think) and it made even more difference, but even with supermarket
petrol, the improvement is noticable - long may it continue!


"Alfistagj" > wrote in message
news:Oh9Tc.5531$vH5.3822@amstwist00...
> "Gareth Tuckwell" > schreef in bericht
> ...
> > Well I am no mechanic, but I can say is that in the last 1000 - 2000

> miles,
> > the car has started performing better than the first 16,000 miles. I was
> > actually rather dissapointed to be honest! There is a definite

smoothness
> > developing now, along with a noticable increase in mid-range pick-up!
> >
> > You say running-in is a thing of the past, but may still occur with

modern
> > engines, only slowly - would you say that around 16,000 miles (about

> 25-26k
> > kilometers) is about right?
> >

>
> Since I drive Alfa's, I found them bringing more and more power by the

mile
> It really starts being noticable at 30-40000km so indeed the 16000miles
> could be a starting point of your performance boost.
>
> > I don't think the amount of difference I have noticed lately can be
> > attributed to climactic changes, air pressure, new shoes or anything

other
> > than the engine easing-in. I have no way of measuring, but there must be

a
> > good 10-25% improvement lately.
> >

>
> 10% could well be; that is really noticable already
> 25% is out of the question!!
>
> > I should add that this improvement didn't happen suddenly, it has been a
> > gradual improvement, so I don't think anything has gone wrong (or gone
> > right!).
> >
> > Anyone any comments on this?
> >

>
> Question:
> Did you have a regular service done lately?
> Reason why I ask:
> "They say" (I have never got it confirmed) that at the first service
> (20000km) the electronic setting is changed to a "after driving in" mode.
> It can also be that it happens automatically at a certain mileage.
> But like I said, never got it confirmed.
>
> Question:
> Did you change the petrol brand lately?
> Reason why I ask:
> In Germany I hear all kinds of miracle stories about Shell's new "super
> fuel".
> Many of them seem true and are supported by traceable facts.
> 10-15 kmh higher top speed etc. will calculate to 10-15% higher power!
> --
> Ciao from Holland
> AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
> Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
> Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)
>
>



 




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