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Pushing Euro At American Buyers
Interesting commentary:
-- The current Detroit enthusiasm for global engineering and design is amazing considering how often it fails to score with American buyers. My impression is that Americans just don't think much of European design. You might say Mercedes and BMW are successful. They a But their 530,000 combined sales for cars and trucks, out of a market of almost 17 million, is a limited success. Care to look at the failures? Start with Volkswagen and its Golf, popular in Europe but a flop here. Go to Ford. The Contour and Mystique were American versions of the European Mondeo. They failed. There is the Ford Focus, a European-designed small car that started moderately well in the U.S. but is seriously slumping. Go to GM. Remember the Cadillac Catera, an Opel with Cadillac badges, imported here? A flop. How about the Saturn LS, a European platform with a plastic skin, a flop and now gone like Cateras and Contour/Mystique. The Saturn Ion was another of those Euro platforms used here. The most successful of the Global/European platform cars sold here is the Chevy Malibu, the fleet special, which even GM executives say is a design bore. But this doesn't stop executives from thinking the answer to their problems, particularly at GM, is at the global approach. Whenever you bring up the failures, they just brush them aside or say they weren't done well enough. The idea that Americans really don't care for the European approach is beyond their radar. Here are just a few of my complaints with this mindset. There's no global exchange here. What GM and Ford want to build are European cars with Euro platforms and European engineering. They just want American badges on them. The design freedom for the American versions is quite limited because they can only work off the Euro platforms. If this continues, it won't be long before Americans at GM and Ford won't be able to design and engineer a car. They'll just do pickups. Look at General Motors: GM forgot how to do a rear-drive car and had to borrow from GM Australia. No American car platforms get transferred for European production. It's a one-way street. Yet the American market, and GM and Ford's share in it, are much larger than the European vehicle market or the GM/Ford shares. You even see some of this thinking with trucks. When GM wanted a small pickup, the Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon, they started with a truck they build in Thailand. That's the global approach. It's supposed to save money. Of course, they couldn't get a V-6 in that pickup, but who needs a V-6? Toyota decided to do a thoroughly American new small pickup truck, the Tacoma. They figured what appeals in Texas might be more important that what sells in Thailand. Right now that Tacoma is outselling the combined GM models 2 to 1. Now I have said the models never go the other way. So far that has been true. GM adapted its minivan designs so that the American-built models could be shipped to Europe. But the Europeans at GM never really wanted them and the exports stopped. GM made a big fuss about the European potential of its Cadillac Seville a few years back, but the GM Europeans never really wanted to sell them. It has occurred to me that the GM people in Europe want to design and build their own vehicles, not sell U.S.-made cars. Now they will have another chance to take an American car. The GM Pontiac Solstice plant will build a version, called the Opel GT, for GM in Europe. It will be interesting to see if the GM Germans actually try to sell it, or if they bury them as they have those American-made vehicles in the past. Aura of success? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Opel designs will sell here. The coming Saturn Aura, which is an Opel design, looks good. It could be successful. But I still say this is a huge market. There's no reason that we shouldn't be able to design and build cars for our market profitably, building what our people like, instead of taking a second-best compromise - meaning, the best car we could make out of a car really designed for the European tastes. Ironically, the one company that seems to think there is something positive in American design is Chrysler, which has German ownership. The Chrysler 300, the Dodge Magnum and Charger don't borrow styling from Europe. The smaller models, the PT Cruiser and the new Dodge Caliber, are distinctive, too. What about Toyota and its global success? Remember that the best-selling Camry sold in America is not the same car they sell in Europe. What sounds better? Having Detroit design and engineer cars for the American buyer or adapting European designs for America? And how much money can be saved if the vehicles have to be built here anyway? The factory and the tooling are the major costs. No savings there. Frankly, German GM, meaning Opel, has been flopping anyway and is just now trying to turn around. What makes anyone at GM think they can build a better car than we can? I recall the then-chairman of Ford, standing with me as we looked at the new Contour. He said. "If this doesn't work we'll never try it again." It didn't work but they haven't stopped trying to shove Euro designs down our throats. -- Patrick |
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Pushing Euro At American Buyers
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Pushing Euro At American Buyers
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#4
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Pushing Euro At American Buyers
at 23 Mar 2006, ] wrote in
oups.com: > I have said the models never go the other way. So far that has been > true. GM adapted its minivan designs so that the American-built > models could be shipped to Europe. But the Europeans at GM never > really wanted them and the exports stopped. GM made a big fuss about > the European potential of its Cadillac Seville a few years back, but > the GM Europeans never really wanted to sell them. It has occurred > to me that the GM people in Europe want to design and build their > own vehicles, not sell U.S.-made cars. Part of the reason for thia is engine size/has consumption of most US designed/made vehicles. We are bitching at $2.80 a gallon for gas but in Europe you are looking at about $5.00 and more a gallon. Ergo, what they want is small cars with 4 cylinder engines that have good gas mileage. If I was in Europe, I would not have bought the 2005 v7 Mustang Convertible I just did. Considering the 30% tax on vehicles in Holland and the $5 a gallon gas I could not afford to drive it. It's a moot point as it seems Ford is not marketing/selling the Mustang in Europe anyway. -- _ 1995 Mustang V6 Coupe (Bright Blue) |_| Member Modern Mustangs of North America |(MMNA) http://mustang.fdns.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#5
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Pushing Euro At American Buyers
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 17:43:55 GMT, Paul > puked:
>f I was in Europe, I would not have bought the 2005 v7 >Mustang Convertible I just did. You should have paid a little extra for the v8... -- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere? |
#6
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Pushing Euro At American Buyers
Greetings,
From across the big pond. All you in the US should count yourselves lucky. I live in England and have to live with this euro ****. But no longer, my 99GT has just arrived I have a V8 again at last "sigh!!" Take care guys and keep turnning out great Pony cars. JohnP. > wrote in message oups.com... > Interesting commentary: > > -- > The current Detroit enthusiasm for global engineering and design is > amazing considering how often it fails to score with American buyers. > > My impression is that Americans just don't think much of European > design. You might say Mercedes and BMW are successful. They a But > their 530,000 combined sales for cars and trucks, out of a market of > almost 17 million, is a limited success. > > Care to look at the failures? Start with Volkswagen and its Golf, > popular in Europe but a flop here. > > Go to Ford. The Contour and Mystique were American versions of the > European Mondeo. They failed. There is the Ford Focus, a > European-designed small car that started moderately well in the U.S. > but is seriously slumping. > > Go to GM. Remember the Cadillac Catera, an Opel with Cadillac badges, > imported here? A flop. How about the Saturn LS, a European platform > with a plastic skin, a flop and now gone like Cateras and > Contour/Mystique. The Saturn Ion was another of those Euro platforms > used here. The most successful of the Global/European platform cars > sold here is the Chevy Malibu, the fleet special, which even GM > executives say is a design bore. > > But this doesn't stop executives from thinking the answer to their > problems, particularly at GM, is at the global approach. Whenever you > bring up the failures, they just brush them aside or say they weren't > done well enough. The idea that Americans really don't care for the > European approach is beyond their radar. > > Here are just a few of my complaints with this mindset. There's no > global exchange here. What GM and Ford want to build are European cars > with Euro platforms and European engineering. They just want American > badges on them. The design freedom for the American versions is quite > limited because they can only work off the Euro platforms. > > If this continues, it won't be long before Americans at GM and Ford > won't be able to design and engineer a car. They'll just do pickups. > Look at General Motors: GM forgot how to do a rear-drive car and had to > borrow from GM Australia. No American car platforms get transferred for > European production. It's a one-way street. Yet the American market, > and GM and Ford's share in it, are much larger than the European > vehicle market or the GM/Ford shares. > > You even see some of this thinking with trucks. When GM wanted a small > pickup, the Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon, they started with a truck > they build in Thailand. That's the global approach. It's supposed to > save money. Of course, they couldn't get a V-6 in that pickup, but who > needs a V-6? Toyota decided to do a thoroughly American new small > pickup truck, the Tacoma. They figured what appeals in Texas might be > more important that what sells in Thailand. Right now that Tacoma is > outselling the combined GM models 2 to 1. > > Now I have said the models never go the other way. So far that has been > true. GM adapted its minivan designs so that the American-built models > could be shipped to Europe. But the Europeans at GM never really wanted > them and the exports stopped. GM made a big fuss about the European > potential of its Cadillac Seville a few years back, but the GM > Europeans never really wanted to sell them. It has occurred to me that > the GM people in Europe want to design and build their own vehicles, > not sell U.S.-made cars. > > Now they will have another chance to take an American car. The GM > Pontiac Solstice plant will build a version, called the Opel GT, for GM > in Europe. It will be interesting to see if the GM Germans actually try > to sell it, or if they bury them as they have those American-made > vehicles in the past. > > Aura of success? > > Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Opel designs will sell here. The coming Saturn > Aura, which is an Opel design, looks good. It could be successful. > > But I still say this is a huge market. There's no reason that we > shouldn't be able to design and build cars for our market profitably, > building what our people like, instead of taking a second-best > compromise - meaning, the best car we could make out of a car really > designed for the European tastes. > > Ironically, the one company that seems to think there is something > positive in American design is Chrysler, which has German ownership. > The Chrysler 300, the Dodge Magnum and Charger don't borrow styling > from Europe. The smaller models, the PT Cruiser and the new Dodge > Caliber, are distinctive, too. > > What about Toyota and its global success? Remember that the > best-selling Camry sold in America is not the same car they sell in > Europe. > > What sounds better? Having Detroit design and engineer cars for the > American buyer or adapting European designs for America? And how much > money can be saved if the vehicles have to be built here anyway? The > factory and the tooling are the major costs. No savings there. > > Frankly, German GM, meaning Opel, has been flopping anyway and is just > now trying to turn around. What makes anyone at GM think they can build > a better car than we can? > > I recall the then-chairman of Ford, standing with me as we looked at > the new Contour. He said. "If this doesn't work we'll never try it > again." It didn't work but they haven't stopped trying to shove Euro > designs down our throats. > -- > > Patrick > |
#7
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Pushing Euro At American Buyers
at 28 Mar 2006, lab~rat >:-) ] wrote in
news > You should have paid a little extra for the v8... Equivalent V8 would have been more than a little extra. More in the region of 10K. I'm very happy with my new baby... -- _ 1995 Mustang V6 Coupe (Bright Blue) |_| Member Modern Mustangs of North America (MMNA) http://mustang.fdns.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#8
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Pushing Euro At American Buyers
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 23:11:13 GMT, Paul > puked:
>at 28 Mar 2006, lab~rat >:-) ] wrote in >news > >> You should have paid a little extra for the v8... > >Equivalent V8 would have been more than a little extra. More in the >region of 10K. I'm very happy with my new baby... If I was in Europe, I would not have bought the 2005 v7 So how is that v7 runnin'? -- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere? |
#9
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Pushing Euro At American Buyers
at 30 Mar 2006, lab~rat >:-) ] wrote in
: > On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 23:11:13 GMT, Paul > puked: > >>at 28 Mar 2006, lab~rat >:-) ] wrote in >>news >> >>> You should have paid a little extra for the v8... > If I was in Europe, I would not have bought the 2005 v7 I'm not in Europe either. I'm in sunny Fla. ;-) > So how is that v7 runnin'? Thanks for the extra cylinder. You must be referring to the soda can in the center console. *grinning* She's running great, beat a '98 GT the other day with ease. No competition, just a friend;y fact finding mission... -- _ 1995 Mustang V6 Coupe (Bright Blue) |_| Member Modern Mustangs of North America (MMNA) http://mustang.fdns.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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