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Buying a new car



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 7th 05, 03:05 AM
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Default Buying a new car

The first time I bought a car I ordered it with the options I wanted.
We agreed on the price and when the car arrived at the dealership I had
a cashiers check for the car.

The dealer had a rebate check that was issued from Ford with my name on
it. He asked me to sign the check and took put it in the cash drawer.

Nothing was ever mentioned in pricing the car about any rebate check.
I didn't say anything and I know I should have at least asked if that
money was from Ford to the dealer then why did they send it to him with
my name on it?

Thinking back I think that check should have been mine and I was
foolish enough to sign it over to the dealer.

I am planning to buy another new car soon and I dread the negotiating I
will have to do to buy one.

Any suggestions on how to get the best deal with poor negotiating
skills?

Any suggestions on a better group to ask these questions?

Ads
  #2  
Old March 7th 05, 03:19 AM
James C. Reeves
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> wrote in message
oups.com...
> The first time I bought a car I ordered it with the options I wanted.
> We agreed on the price and when the car arrived at the dealership I had
> a cashiers check for the car.
>
> The dealer had a rebate check that was issued from Ford with my name on
> it. He asked me to sign the check and took put it in the cash drawer.
>
> Nothing was ever mentioned in pricing the car about any rebate check.
> I didn't say anything and I know I should have at least asked if that
> money was from Ford to the dealer then why did they send it to him with
> my name on it?
>
> Thinking back I think that check should have been mine and I was
> foolish enough to sign it over to the dealer.
>
> I am planning to buy another new car soon and I dread the negotiating I
> will have to do to buy one.
>
> Any suggestions on how to get the best deal with poor negotiating
> skills?
>
> Any suggestions on a better group to ask these questions?
>


Go to www.edmunds.com and configure the car the way you want it. Click on
the "current offers" link to see what rebates are being offered for your
area. Offer $100 over invoice minus the rebate. You'll still be paying a
little more than you should, but it saves the hassle. You'll be in and out
in under 30 minutes (in most cases). If you still want to haggle, that's a
good starting number.



  #3  
Old March 7th 05, 04:07 AM
John Harlow
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> Any suggestions on how to get the best deal with poor negotiating
> skills?


You can possibly save up to a third if you instead consider buying a
slightly used car from a private seller. The remaining warranty will still
be good too. Have it inspected if you aren't capable of doing it yourself.

Delaers are simply the worst place to buy a car. Let someone else take the
hit.


  #4  
Old March 7th 05, 04:50 AM
Skip Elliott Bowman
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Default

> wrote in message
oups.com...

> Any suggestions on how to get the best deal with poor negotiating
> skills?


http://www.fightingchance.com

HIGHLY recommended. Also, make a trip to your bookstore and buy some books
on how to buy a car. The best one I know of is "Car Buyer's and Leaser's
Negotiating Bible" by William Bragg. I gotta tell ya, it was fun turning
the tables on car salesmen. From the moment we stepped onto the lot to the
moment we signed the papers, 90 minutes time--and that included a 45 minute
test drive! Not to mention which we paid less than $300 over factory
invoice. Can you dig it?

One other tip: see those two things past your legs and ankles, covered up by
shoes and socks? Those are your absolute best negotiating tools. Use them
for fun and profit. They work.


  #5  
Old March 8th 05, 08:15 PM
Ad absurdum per aspera
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> http://www.fightingchance.com
>
> HIGHLY recommended. Also, make a trip to your
> bookstore and buy some books on how to buy a car.
>The best one I know of is "Car Buyer's and Leaser's
> Negotiating Bible" by William Bragg.


Don't forget _Don't Get Taken Every Time_ by Remar Sutton. The latest
edition(s) are worth a look even if you read it back in the day --
there's an interesting new chapter on how dealers as well as consumers
use the Internet. It also goes through scenarios that describe how
different personality types and demographic groups get ripped on the
individual deal and get permanently upside-down over time.

Sutton is also very big on private-party sales within your network of
family and friends and neighbors as a good way to pick up a quality
*used* car. The catches, of course, are that you have to be flexible
about make/model/year and the timing of the purchase so as to take
advantage of what's available, and that it'll often have to be a cash
deal. But I must say that I've gotten the most satisfactory deals in
this manner.

But let's suppose you want a new car. The advice in this thread
should, if not make you a budding professional shopper and/or business
negotiator, at least give you a concrete idea of how best to proceed
and what specifically to look out for.

If after doing your homework you decide you wouldn't find it amusing
and rewarding to sally forth and try to best the car sharks at their
own game, you might try auto brokers -- independent ones, services of
the warehouse shopping clubs, whatever. (Don't forget to perform due
diligence on them first, of course.) The broker has to make money out
of this somewhere, so you won't get the rock bottom price that you
yourself could hypothetically extract by using well-honed negotiating
skills upon a hungry dealer. But if the broker is reputable and
talented, it should still be a substantially below-sticker price and a
low-hassle experience.

Another important way to keep both cost and hassle to a minimum is to
have in place your own financing arrangements through your own bank,
credit union, or whatnot before ever making contact with a dealer.

Best of luck,
--Joe

  #6  
Old March 8th 05, 10:13 PM
Skip Elliott Bowman
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Default

"Ad absurdum per aspera" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> http://www.fightingchance.com
>>
>> HIGHLY recommended. Also, make a trip to your
>> bookstore and buy some books on how to buy a car.
>>The best one I know of is "Car Buyer's and Leaser's
>> Negotiating Bible" by William Bragg.

>
> Don't forget _Don't Get Taken Every Time_ by Remar Sutton. The latest
> edition(s) are worth a look even if you read it back in the day --
> there's an interesting new chapter on how dealers as well as consumers
> use the Internet. It also goes through scenarios that describe how
> different personality types and demographic groups get ripped on the
> individual deal and get permanently upside-down over time.


I have this book also; should have mentioned it. Thanks!

> Sutton is also very big on private-party sales within your network of
> family and friends and neighbors as a good way to pick up a quality
> *used* car. The catches, of course, are that you have to be flexible
> about make/model/year and the timing of the purchase so as to take
> advantage of what's available, and that it'll often have to be a cash
> deal. But I must say that I've gotten the most satisfactory deals in
> this manner.


More excellent advice.

> If after doing your homework you decide you wouldn't find it amusing
> and rewarding to sally forth and try to best the car sharks at their
> own game, you might try auto brokers -- independent ones, services of
> the warehouse shopping clubs, whatever. (Don't forget to perform due
> diligence on them first, of course.) The broker has to make money out
> of this somewhere, so you won't get the rock bottom price that you
> yourself could hypothetically extract by using well-honed negotiating
> skills upon a hungry dealer. But if the broker is reputable and
> talented, it should still be a substantially below-sticker price and a
> low-hassle experience.


One technique to use on sales hawks also works on brokers: the old 20/80
rule. 20% of car sales customers generate 80% of the profits. So tell
them that they'll make a sale but not a huge commission. If they want to
move a vehicle today, they can do it with you--they can make a lot of money
with their next sales. If they balk, don't argue. Just say "Okay," and
walk away. Then watch them chase you back into the booth to make the sale.

> Another important way to keep both cost and hassle to a minimum is to
> have in place your own financing arrangements through your own bank,
> credit union, or whatnot before ever making contact with a dealer.


Shopping within a specific budget and the money in your pocket (and outta
sight of the sales hawks)--yet more excellent advice. Joe, you rock.

> Best of luck,
> --Joe
>



  #7  
Old March 9th 05, 05:34 AM
Big Bill
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Default

On 8 Mar 2005 11:15:59 -0800, "Ad absurdum per aspera"
> wrote:

>Sutton is also very big on private-party sales within your network of
>family and friends and neighbors as a good way to pick up a quality
>*used* car. The catches, of course, are that you have to be flexible
>about make/model/year and the timing of the purchase so as to take
>advantage of what's available, and that it'll often have to be a cash
>deal. But I must say that I've gotten the most satisfactory deals in
>this manner.


Personal opinion:
Never, ever, sell a used car to a friend/relative.
It's like loaning money to a friend/relative.
Be prepared to lose either the car/money or the friend/relative.

Or, as in the case of my own experience, *always* *ALWAYS* get a note
(contract) outlining the rules.

If you *give* the car to a friend/relative, it's almost as bad. The
car probably has problems (otherwise you'd sell it),and those problems
may come back to haunt.

Like I said, personal opinion.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
  #8  
Old March 9th 05, 08:06 AM
Skip Elliott Bowman
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Default

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 03:50:35 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
> > wrote:
>
>>> Any suggestions on how to get the best deal with poor negotiating
>>> skills?

>>
>>http://www.fightingchance.com
>>
>>HIGHLY recommended.

>
> Did they ever get their delivery process fixed?
>
> The one time I tried to use that service, they sent the results to me
> as a gigantic email file attachment, which of course never made it.
> The guy didn't seem to think it was a problem worth fixing, and he
> couldn't be bothered to, say, let customers download their report
> files from his web site or anything like normal e-businesses do, so I
> just got a refund.
>
> That was a few years ago, however, so hopefully they've gotten a
> little smarter since then.


Well, that sucks. When I bought it, I was having trouble with my ISP--I
couldn't download large attachments (they got sued over that, but that's
another story) so I got the fax instead. It was frigging huge alright, but
still useful. If I had tried to download this thing it would have crashed
my system for sure.

For example, when people used his system to buy a car, they would write back
with a purchase report. They'd say what make and model car they'd bought
where for what price, and how far over factory invoice they'd paid. Knowing
your car's (in my wife's case, a Grand Am) actual going rate and popularity
in your neighborhood and around the country was valuable info. FI and MSRP
comparisons are in monthly car buying magazines, sold on any bookstand.
They show FI in one column and MSRP right next to it.

At the time I used Fighting Chance, they charged something like $17 for the
fax, which I found out about by buying his book for like $15. It's gotta be
more now, but I'd pay double that, or more. Compare that to saving
thousands below whatever deal they offered me.

I spent a total of around $75 and 4.5 month's research on that purchase.
Lots of work, but it paid off in the end. Not just in saving money, but in
the sweet smell of smug that comes from turning the tables on the sales
hawks.


  #9  
Old March 11th 05, 09:58 PM
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Default

Skip Elliott Bowman wrote:

>I spent a total of around $75 and 4.5 month's research on that

purchase.
>Lots of work, but it paid off in the end. Not just in saving money,

but in
>the sweet smell of smug that comes from turning the tables on the

sales
>hawks.


You likely got a better deal than you would otherwise have gotten, but
if the dealer agreed to the deal, you didn't turn the tables on anyone.
The sales "hawks" don't care that they let a vehicle be sold for a
minimal profit, they want you out of there so they can spend their time
on the next guy.

The only time you know that you've turned the tables on them is when
they come up with a phoney excuse to renege on the whole deal, after
the contract has been signed, but then you don't end up with the
vehicle, so they still win.

I bought a vehicle in Southern California, at West Covina Toyota. It
was an "All in Stock at this Price" sale, so you'd think it'd be hassle
free, but it wasn't.

We agreed to the deal, which was way below invoice (due to factory to
dealer incentives), and signed the contract. When it became clear that
we were not financing, buying a warranty, or buying any other extras
like paint guard, fabric guard, gold package, digital ash trays, etc.,
the car suddenly became "unavailable." The cock and bull story was that
they couldn't sell it to us because it had been damaged, then repaired
(hence the lack of visible damage), but it hadn't been "cleared by
Toyota."

We went back the next day, got there before the dealer opened, and I
was talking to a guy setting up a BBQ lunch at the dealership. He knew
the dealership's owner personally, told me his name, about his family,
his previous dealership etc. When the salespeople arrived, I was
talking to them outside as they could not get into the building until
the dealer arrived. I explained that I was an old friend of the dealer
when he had his dealership across town, etc., all lies of course. So
when the dealer arrives one salesman tells the dealer that an old
customer is here and I say, "g-d it's been a long time, how's the wife
and the family," and the dealer who doesn't know who the hell I am has
to pretend that he knows me, and my wife has to walk away to keep from
bursting out laughing. Fortunately no one recognized us from the day
before. We ended up getting the car at the advertised price, but we
financed it to make the dealer happy, then paid it off immediately.
Then the dealer starts sending us gifts so we'll fill out the Toyota
survey "properly."

  #10  
Old March 11th 05, 11:01 PM
Dave C.
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Default

>
> You likely got a better deal than you would otherwise have gotten, but
> if the dealer agreed to the deal, you didn't turn the tables on anyone.
> The sales "hawks" don't care that they let a vehicle be sold for a
> minimal profit, they want you out of there so they can spend their time
> on the next guy.


Actually, you are wrong on that. It depends on the dealer, but most dealers
will NOT sell a vehicle at a "fair" or "minimal" profit. They would rather
have the vehicle sit on the lot an extra day or two until some sucker pays
them thousands of dollars more than what the vehicle is actually worth. I
know this for a fact, as I was told this by a regional (car) sales manager.

Several years ago, I did my research VERY carefully, and knew the exact
model of car I wanted to buy, and how much I should have to pay for it, to
the penny. I didn't need financing, it was going to be a cash sale. I
didn't have a car to trade, as I intended to keep my current car for a
while. It was a simple transaction, Car X for Y number of dollars. I went
to several dealers, all within a 2 hour drive of where I live. I made sure
they had the car I wanted with the options I wanted. I made my offer. Most
flatly refused to even consider it. One salesman wrote up the paperwork as
if the car was going to be sold, spent an hour or so going over details of
the sale, and then claimed that the sales manager rejected the sale. They
made a counter-offer for several hundred more than I was willing to pay. I
walked out, no sale.

I was just about ready to give up when I arrived at the SIXTH car dealer
(having had my offer rejected by five other dealers). I walked in, talked
to a very nice salesman. Told him I'd already been to several dealers and
had been rejected by all of them, but that I really WANTED to buy a car
TODAY. I explained that the car I wanted was on the lot, we walked over to
it so that he could see the one I wanted. I then told him how much I was
willing to pay for it. He said he'd gladly sell it to me, at the price I
wanted to pay. The catch? He was a regional sales manager FROM THE OTHER
SIDE OF THE COUNTRY who just happened to be at the dealership that day. He
couldn't sell me a car from the local lot, but if I paid to have an
identical one shipped from California . . .

Anyway, when I found out who he was, I asked him why I couldn't buy a car
from a local dealer. He informed me that my offer was fair, that HE would
have accepted it at his home dealership in California, but that some dealers
(apparently all in the New England area) would not sell a car for such a
small profit. So he CONFIRMED that car dealers are (on the whole) crooks
who will not sell a car unless they can RIP YOU OFF. A car won't be sold at
a "profit", it will only be sold if the dealership makes a killing.

Later, I found a similar car (different make) selling for several thousands
under MSRP as it was a year-end leftover. So I ended up spending less than
I had planned to, but I did not get the car I really wanted, and there's no
doubt in my mind that I was still ripped off, even though I paid several
thousands below MSRP. -Dave


 




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