Off topic CVT tranny question for Jim Warman or others...

This question is slightly off topic as it pertains to the new CVT
(Continuously Variable Transmission) used on the new Ford Freestyle Crossover
SUV, but I think the discussion will be interesting to all. The idea has been
around for a while, but this is one of the first actual applications on a US
automobile.
The question is: What are your thoughts on this new design CVT & what
concerns do you have about the longevity of the design ??? Any ideas on cost to
repair (if someone could be found who knew how) ??? Also, are adjustments
required during the life of the tranny ??? Is this tranny suitable for towing
??? Does this tranny generate more or less heat as current automatics???
I am considering purchasing a Freestyle, but do not know much about the
CVT tranny. Testing a brand new transmission like this for Ford is a bit scary.

Thanks for any input you might have on this. - Ray

On 09 Nov 2004 15:36:42 GMT, (CRAngelo) wrote:

> This question is slightly off topic as it pertains to the new CVT
>(Continuously Variable Transmission) used on the new Ford Freestyle Crossover
>SUV, but I think the discussion will be interesting to all. The idea has been
>around for a while, but this is one of the first actual applications on a US
>automobile.
> The question is: What are your thoughts on this new design CVT & what
>concerns do you have about the longevity of the design ??? Any ideas on cost to
>repair (if someone could be found who knew how) ??? Also, are adjustments
>required during the life of the tranny ??? Is this tranny suitable for towing
>??? Does this tranny generate more or less heat as current automatics???
> I am considering purchasing a Freestyle, but do not know much about the
>CVT tranny. Testing a brand new transmission like this for Ford is a bit scary.
>
>Thanks for any input you might have on this. - Ray

Every thing I've ever read about CVTs has been that it's hard to make
them last. So they usually wind up being used in under/marginally
powered vehicles. I certainly wouldn't buy one in the first few years
of production if it was a vehicle I planned on keeping past the
warranty period. That said, I believe one of the Hybrid vehicles that
came out in the last couple years (Prius or the other one) used a CVT
and I haven't heard of it having any problems. Of course, they aren't
all that old and proven in those vehicles yet either.
--
Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the
establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . .
Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of
the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order
to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House
of Representatives, August 17, 1789

Like AZGuy, I recommend shying away from new releases for the first couple
of years. I don't quite agree with much else...

At 203/207 for hp and torque, the Freestyle is no screamer but it certainly
isn't a slouch, either. While this CVT is yet to be proven in real world
action, I don't think we can compare it to the asian offering of more than a
decade ago. The state of the art has changed greatly since then.

We have one Freestyle in stock but I have yet to have the opportunity to
drive it nor the time to take the NMT course (New Model Training).

Looking at the specs, though, we see that the towing capacity is rated at
2000 lbs. Until the transmission has proved itself, I can't comment. I don't
think we'll see anything different in the way of temperatures.... most of
the heat in an automatic transmission is created by the torque converter.
Remember that the CVT is more of a gas mileage thing rather than a
workhorse. You might consider the 6 speed auto.....

Depending on usage, I can forsee some teething problems with the CVT trans
and I'm positive that any after warranty repairs will hurt. Like many other
innovations (variable cam timing, variable displacement, and so on), there
will be a learning curve. This vehicle isn't going to replace Explorers or
pick ups any time soon and I would recommend buying the car you need rather
than the car you want.

FWIW... my 92 is soon to be up for grabs. My 16 year old will get his
drivers licence in March (we have a graduated system - hopefully it will
reduce the carnage) and the Ex doesn't fulfill his needs. I'll miss the old
girl but the plan is to find a Ranger with the same powertrain.....


"CRAngelo" > wrote in message
...
> This question is slightly off topic as it pertains to the new CVT
> (Continuously Variable Transmission) used on the new Ford Freestyle
> Crossover
> SUV, but I think the discussion will be interesting to all. The idea has
> been
> around for a while, but this is one of the first actual applications on a
> US
> automobile.
> The question is: What are your thoughts on this new design CVT & what
> concerns do you have about the longevity of the design ??? Any ideas on
> cost to
> repair (if someone could be found who knew how) ??? Also, are adjustments
> required during the life of the tranny ??? Is this tranny suitable for
> towing
> ??? Does this tranny generate more or less heat as current automatics???
> I am considering purchasing a Freestyle, but do not know much about
> the
> CVT tranny. Testing a brand new transmission like this for Ford is a bit
> scary.
>
> Thanks for any input you might have on this. - Ray

AZGuy > wrote in message >. ..
> On 09 Nov 2004 15:36:42 GMT, (CRAngelo) wrote:
>
> > This question is slightly off topic as it pertains to the new CVT
> >(Continuously Variable Transmission) used on the new Ford Freestyle Crossover
> >SUV, but I think the discussion will be interesting to all. The idea has been
> >around for a while, but this is one of the first actual applications on a US
> >automobile.
> > The question is: What are your thoughts on this new design CVT & what
> >concerns do you have about the longevity of the design ??? Any ideas on cost to
> >repair (if someone could be found who knew how) ??? Also, are adjustments
> >required during the life of the tranny ??? Is this tranny suitable for towing
> >??? Does this tranny generate more or less heat as current automatics???
> > I am considering purchasing a Freestyle, but do not know much about the
> >CVT tranny. Testing a brand new transmission like this for Ford is a bit scary.
> >
> >Thanks for any input you might have on this. - Ray
>
> Every thing I've ever read about CVTs has been that it's hard to make
> them last. So they usually wind up being used in under/marginally
> powered vehicles. I certainly wouldn't buy one in the first few years
> of production if it was a vehicle I planned on keeping past the
> warranty period. That said, I believe one of the Hybrid vehicles that
> came out in the last couple years (Prius or the other one) used a CVT
> and I haven't heard of it having any problems. Of course, they aren't
> all that old and proven in those vehicles yet either.

Not all CVTs are created equal.

For example, there's the traditional cone CVT that is used on the
Saturn VUE, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, and I think
maybe the Mini...

Then there's the planetary gearset (eCVT) used on the Toyota Prius and the
Ford Escape Hybrid.


Which one most closely resembles the one on the Freestyle?

I rented a nissan murano that had a CVT. It's weird to get used to. You pull
out of the toll plaza and gun it and it revs right up to 5k and stays there as
the car goes faster, no shifts. It keeps the engine in its best power band at
any speed.

Because of the infinite gear ratios you can throw it in low at any speed and
use engine braking to slow down.

On 18 Nov 2004 16:44:41 GMT, (JaWise) wrote:

>I rented a nissan murano that had a CVT. It's weird to get used to. You pull
>out of the toll plaza and gun it and it revs right up to 5k and stays there as
>the car goes faster, no shifts. It keeps the engine in its best power band at
>any speed.
>
>Because of the infinite gear ratios you can throw it in low at any speed and
>use engine braking to slow down.

One of those new hybrids that uses a CVT has the computer programmed
to make the CVT do a little "bump" at appropriate times to simulate a
regular automatic shifting to keep drivers happy.
--
Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the
establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . .
Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of
the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order
to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House
of Representatives, August 17, 1789

>I rented a nissan murano that had a CVT. It's weird to get used to. You
>pull
>out of the toll plaza and gun it and it revs right up to 5k and stays there
>as
>the car goes faster, no shifts. It keeps the engine in its best power band
>at
>any speed.
>
>Because of the infinite gear ratios you can throw it in low at any speed and
>use engine braking to slow down.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks for the info. -- I was wondering about how the CVT performed -vs- what
we're used to. Haven't taken a ride yet, but I think it will be enlightening.
Thanks again - Ray(original poster)