Do I have a clutch or tranny problem?

I inheritied a beautiful 1973 Thing from my dad. He bought it new and kept all
the papers. It still has the original top on it. I use it as my daily driver
and while out today it became very difficult to shift.

When I try to start the car in neutral I can not shift into any gear. If I try
to start in gear with in clutch engaged it is like I am in gear. Then there
are times I can get it to shift but it is rough and sloppy. Once in gear it
runs like a champ.

Clutch or transaxle?

I tried the old test of shifting in 4th and letting out on the clutch with the
brake on and the car cuts off.

I am hoping for the inexpensive clutch job as opposed to the expensive tranaxle
replacement.

The petal is up high where it should be telling me it does not need to be
adjusted.

Can a clutch go bad from one shift to the next?

Which clutch from the VW parts bins fits the Thing? No telling how many miles
are on this clutch.

I know my old man is looking down from Heaven sceaming at me right now.

Thanks for any advice.

Bobby in Savannah

RDavis1957 wrote:

> I inheritied a beautiful 1973 Thing from my dad. He bought it new and kept all
> the papers. It still has the original top on it. I use it as my daily driver
> and while out today it became very difficult to shift.
>
> When I try to start the car in neutral I can not shift into any gear. If I try
> to start in gear with in clutch engaged it is like I am in gear. Then there
> are times I can get it to shift but it is rough and sloppy. Once in gear it
> runs like a champ.
>
> Clutch or transaxle?
>
> I tried the old test of shifting in 4th and letting out on the clutch with the
> brake on and the car cuts off.
>
> I am hoping for the inexpensive clutch job as opposed to the expensive tranaxle
> replacement.
>
> The petal is up high where it should be telling me it does not need to be
> adjusted.
>
> Can a clutch go bad from one shift to the next?
>
> Which clutch from the VW parts bins fits the Thing? No telling how many miles
> are on this clutch.
>
> I know my old man is looking down from Heaven sceaming at me right now.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> Bobby in Savannah
>
>

Shift in Neutral.
Engine idling.
Press clutch pedal to floor.
Very slowly, engage Reverse.
If it grinds/won't go in, the clutch is not releasing.

There are many things that could go wrong, including a broken
clutch release arm/shaft.

THING uses the same clutch components of the 1600cc Beetle ('71 up).

You probably won't be able to tell what happened till you pull
the engine:
http://www.geocities.com/bugfuel/pull_it.html



Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

Sometimes the tube housing the clutch cable breaks off a weld in the
floorpan, and it moves when you press the pedal - so it doesn't release the
clutch as it should.

Be sure to check the free play - press on the pedal with a finger and see
how far it moves before it gets "heavy" - It should only be a small amount.
You can adjust the clutch cable using the nut where it attaches to the lever
on the tranny. If you do adjust it, make sure there is still a little
freeplay at the pedal end. Otherwise the release bearing will stay in
contact with the clutch and wear prematurely.

Allan :-)

Speedy Jim > wrote in message
...
> RDavis1957 wrote:
>
> > I inheritied a beautiful 1973 Thing from my dad. He bought it new and
kept all
> > the papers. It still has the original top on it. I use it as my daily
driver
> > and while out today it became very difficult to shift.
> >
> > When I try to start the car in neutral I can not shift into any gear.
If I try
> > to start in gear with in clutch engaged it is like I am in gear. Then
there
> > are times I can get it to shift but it is rough and sloppy. Once in
gear it
> > runs like a champ.
> >
> > Clutch or transaxle?
> >
> > I tried the old test of shifting in 4th and letting out on the clutch
with the
> > brake on and the car cuts off.
> >
> > I am hoping for the inexpensive clutch job as opposed to the expensive
tranaxle
> > replacement.
> >
> > The petal is up high where it should be telling me it does not need to
be
> > adjusted.
> >
> > Can a clutch go bad from one shift to the next?
> >
> > Which clutch from the VW parts bins fits the Thing? No telling how many
miles
> > are on this clutch.
> >
> > I know my old man is looking down from Heaven sceaming at me right now.
> >
> > Thanks for any advice.
> >
> > Bobby in Savannah
> >
> >
>
> Shift in Neutral.
> Engine idling.
> Press clutch pedal to floor.
> Very slowly, engage Reverse.
> If it grinds/won't go in, the clutch is not releasing.
>
> There are many things that could go wrong, including a broken
> clutch release arm/shaft.
>
> THING uses the same clutch components of the 1600cc Beetle ('71 up).
>
> You probably won't be able to tell what happened till you pull
> the engine:
> http://www.geocities.com/bugfuel/pull_it.html
>
>
>
> Speedy Jim
> http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

Allan Williams wrote:
> Sometimes the tube housing the clutch cable breaks off a weld in the
> floorpan, and it moves when you press the pedal - so it doesn't release the
> clutch as it should.
>
> Be sure to check the free play - press on the pedal with a finger and see
> how far it moves before it gets "heavy" - It should only be a small amount.
> You can adjust the clutch cable using the nut where it attaches to the lever
> on the tranny. If you do adjust it, make sure there is still a little
> freeplay at the pedal end. Otherwise the release bearing will stay in
> contact with the clutch and wear prematurely.
>
> Allan :-)

Yes, agreeing strongly with Allan. This kept me awake last night!
It could also be a clutch cable stretching/broken strands.
Do the finger-on-the-pedal test. The play should be no more
than roughly 3/4".

Maybe it will prove to be something simple and avoid pulling the
engine:-)

Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

>ubject: Do I have a clutch or tranny problem?
>From: Speedy Jim
>Date: 12/1/04 9:31 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Allan Williams wrote:
>> Sometimes the tube housing the clutch cable breaks off a weld in the
>> floorpan, and it moves when you press the pedal - so it doesn't release the
>> clutch as it should.
>>
>> Be sure to check the free play - press on the pedal with a finger and see
>> how far it moves before it gets "heavy" - It should only be a small amount.
>> You can adjust the clutch cable using the nut where it attaches to the
>lever
>> on the tranny. If you do adjust it, make sure there is still a little
>> freeplay at the pedal end. Otherwise the release bearing will stay in
>> contact with the clutch and wear prematurely.
>>
>> Allan :-)
>
> Yes, agreeing strongly with Allan. This kept me awake last night!
> It could also be a clutch cable stretching/broken strands.
> Do the finger-on-the-pedal test. The play should be no more
> than roughly 3/4".
>
> Maybe it will prove to be something simple and avoid pulling the
> engine:-)
>
>Speedy Jim
>http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/
>


Gentlemen:

Thank you for the suggestions. I did Speedy Jim's reverse test and found out
that the clutch was not releasing.

I also thought about the fact the cable may have stretched but the petal seemed
to have the correct 3/4 inch play in it.

At the suggestion on my neigbor "Wild Bill" I added a spacer just in front of
the wing nut to see if stretching it would help.

I did not see an immediate change.

However while I was back there looking for broken welds and other loose stuff,
I checked the fluid level and found it to be very low. I added about 10+
ounces of lube and it seemed to shift better after a short test drive. I do
not think this has anything to do with the clutch but what the hell it works
better.

I'll drive it today and let you know the results tonight.

Bobby in Savannah

> the papers. It still has the original top on it. I use it as my daily driver
> and while out today it became very difficult to shift.
>
> When I try to start the car in neutral I can not shift into any gear. If I try
> to start in gear with in clutch engaged it is like I am in gear. Then there
> are times I can get it to shift but it is rough and sloppy. Once in gear it
> runs like a champ.

Check the shifter coupling under the back seat(if the thing has a back
seat??) If the bushings there go bad your shifting will be a mess but
you will be able to drive it if you can find a gear and wrestle it in.

Unless your clutch pedal started to feel substantially different than
it has previously I would not consider the clutch to be your problem.
Along those same lines, I doubt you would lose all gears at once
unless something happened with the shifter, which is where I think you
should look first.

Good luck.

Chris

On 04 Dec 2004 23:27:10 GMT, (RDavis1957) scribbled
this interesting note:

>>Check the shifter coupling under the back seat(if the thing has a back
>>seat??) If the bushings there go bad your shifting will be a mess but
>>you will be able to drive it if you can find a gear and wrestle it in.
>
>this sounds like my problem.
>
>How do you tell if the bushings are bad?
>
>it shifts okay now but I am getting abad bearing sound and will re adjust the
>clutch to prevent any pre mature wear.
>
>Bobby in Savannah

It isn't that hard. Remove the engine. Inspect everything closely. Go
ahead and replace the clutch plate. With the engine out you can get a
good look at all the components back there. Look at the tube. Does it
look right?

Chances are it is the little connector under the plate under the back
seat. Those go out on occasion as the rubber that is a part of them
become apart from them. Inexpensive part, easy to inspect. Easy to
replace.

If all is good under the seat, pull the engine. Clean it up a bit
while you are there, I'm sure it could use it. While it is out,
replace the tinware-to-body seal, that too isn't very hard-search
Google for good instructions on how-to.

Every car needs a good going over every now and again. Your car is now
telling to that it needs one. Take heed, you'll be glad you did!:~)


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 17:31:09 -0600, John Willis
> wrote:

>On 04 Dec 2004 23:27:10 GMT, (RDavis1957) scribbled
>this interesting note:
>
>>>Check the shifter coupling under the back seat(if the thing has a back
>>>seat??) If the bushings there go bad your shifting will be a mess but
>>>you will be able to drive it if you can find a gear and wrestle it in.
>>
>>this sounds like my problem.
>>
>>How do you tell if the bushings are bad?
>>
>>it shifts okay now but I am getting abad bearing sound and will re adjust the
>>clutch to prevent any pre mature wear.
>>
>>Bobby in Savannah
>
>It isn't that hard. Remove the engine.

Ahhh. :-) This is one of the reasons I'm gonna get back into VWs.
"It isn't that hard... Step one: Remove the engine." How many
other vehicles can you give *accurate* advice about by starting out
with "It isn't that hard....remove the engine..."? And to think I
almost gave away my VW engine stand to the buyer of the LCB.


---
"There's nothing wrong with a little killing as long as the right people get killed."
- Inspector Harry Callahan