hybrids: toyota vs. honda

wrote:

> Which doesn't imply that you are correct in any way. I would suggest
> that the experiences of an automotive profession carries more weight
> than some d00d in usenet.

I know little about snow tires and have never felt that I
needed any. I do however have an opinion of automobile
magazine authors. Elevating most of them to "automotive
profession<al>" is a little much. Maybe CSABA CSERE is a
great author and maybe he has driven a lot of cool cars, but
I imagine his area of expertise is not tire dynamics. The
particular article quoted was interesting, but seemed to be
little more than one man's opinion. The fact that his
opinion was printed in Car and Driver doesn't make it any
more valid than one man's opinion expressed through the
internet. The whole article smacked of a Tire Rack article
designed to sell snow tires.

Ed

C. E. White wrote:

> I know little about snow tires and have never felt that I
> needed any.

I felt the same way until I actually got a set. A set will probably
cost a little more than you would pay for a tow, but it's definitely
cheaper than the body shop.

C. E. White wrote:

> I know little about snow tires and have never felt that I
> needed any.

I felt the same way until I actually got a set. A set will probably
cost a little more than you would pay for a tow, but it's definitely
cheaper than the body shop.

Arif Khokar wrote:
>
> C. E. White wrote:
>
> > I know little about snow tires and have never felt that I
> > needed any.
>
> I felt the same way until I actually got a set. A set will probably
> cost a little more than you would pay for a tow, but it's definitely
> cheaper than the body shop.

I don't claim to be an expert on winter driving. I spent one
winter in Michigan (1978 - it was bad) and have to endure
one or two snow storms a year here in NC. I have never found
driving on snow to be much of a challenge. In fact, the
winter in Michigan was a piece of cake. I was driving a
Datsun 280Z at the time and never once had any problem
despite repeated snow storms and the OE Bridgestone tires.

I actually find winter storms in NC to be much worse, mostly
because of the lack of expertise by many NC drivers, the
lack of adequate snow removal equipment, and the repeated
cycles of thaws and refreezes that result in a lot of ice on
the roads. Biggest challenge I had was driving a 2001
Mustang GT convertible home on a hilly road after an ice
storm. Between the limited slip rear axle and the traction
control, the car was almost undrivable. I never lost
control, but because of the stop and go traffic, I was often
stopped on the up slope of a steep hill. Getting the car
started without bring the rear end around was a challenge.
Fortunately I was patient and eventually made it home
without incident. I can't say the same for a number of
people in SUVs who didn't understand that ice equals little
or no traction no matter how big your tires are and whether
2 or 4 are being driven.

Ed

Arif Khokar wrote:
>
> C. E. White wrote:
>
> > I know little about snow tires and have never felt that I
> > needed any.
>
> I felt the same way until I actually got a set. A set will probably
> cost a little more than you would pay for a tow, but it's definitely
> cheaper than the body shop.

I don't claim to be an expert on winter driving. I spent one
winter in Michigan (1978 - it was bad) and have to endure
one or two snow storms a year here in NC. I have never found
driving on snow to be much of a challenge. In fact, the
winter in Michigan was a piece of cake. I was driving a
Datsun 280Z at the time and never once had any problem
despite repeated snow storms and the OE Bridgestone tires.

I actually find winter storms in NC to be much worse, mostly
because of the lack of expertise by many NC drivers, the
lack of adequate snow removal equipment, and the repeated
cycles of thaws and refreezes that result in a lot of ice on
the roads. Biggest challenge I had was driving a 2001
Mustang GT convertible home on a hilly road after an ice
storm. Between the limited slip rear axle and the traction
control, the car was almost undrivable. I never lost
control, but because of the stop and go traffic, I was often
stopped on the up slope of a steep hill. Getting the car
started without bring the rear end around was a challenge.
Fortunately I was patient and eventually made it home
without incident. I can't say the same for a number of
people in SUVs who didn't understand that ice equals little
or no traction no matter how big your tires are and whether
2 or 4 are being driven.

Ed

"C. E. White" > wrote
> wrote:
>
>> Which doesn't imply that you are correct in any way. I would suggest
>> that the experiences of an automotive profession carries more weight
>> than some d00d in usenet.
>
> I know little about snow tires and have never felt that I
> needed any. I do however have an opinion of automobile
> magazine authors. Elevating most of them to "automotive
> profession<al>" is a little much. Maybe CSABA CSERE is a
> great author and maybe he has driven a lot of cool cars, but
> I imagine his area of expertise is not tire dynamics.

If you had investigated further, you would discover that Csaba
is an "MIT educated automotive engineer". Are you? If not,
perhaps you should accede to his expert opinion.

> The
> particular article quoted was interesting, but seemed to be
> little more than one man's opinion. The fact that his
> opinion was printed in Car and Driver doesn't make it any
> more valid than one man's opinion expressed through the
> internet. The whole article smacked of a Tire Rack article
> designed to sell snow tires.

If you have actually read C&D for a while, you would know
that they actually test things that they talk about. For instance,
a couple of years ago they tested snow tires and DSC, etc.
The tables are easy to read, even for non-technical persons.

Floyd

"C. E. White" > wrote
> wrote:
>
>> Which doesn't imply that you are correct in any way. I would suggest
>> that the experiences of an automotive profession carries more weight
>> than some d00d in usenet.
>
> I know little about snow tires and have never felt that I
> needed any. I do however have an opinion of automobile
> magazine authors. Elevating most of them to "automotive
> profession<al>" is a little much. Maybe CSABA CSERE is a
> great author and maybe he has driven a lot of cool cars, but
> I imagine his area of expertise is not tire dynamics.

If you had investigated further, you would discover that Csaba
is an "MIT educated automotive engineer". Are you? If not,
perhaps you should accede to his expert opinion.

> The
> particular article quoted was interesting, but seemed to be
> little more than one man's opinion. The fact that his
> opinion was printed in Car and Driver doesn't make it any
> more valid than one man's opinion expressed through the
> internet. The whole article smacked of a Tire Rack article
> designed to sell snow tires.

If you have actually read C&D for a while, you would know
that they actually test things that they talk about. For instance,
a couple of years ago they tested snow tires and DSC, etc.
The tables are easy to read, even for non-technical persons.

Floyd

"C. E. White" > wrote
> Arif Khokar wrote:
>> C. E. White wrote:
>>
>> > I know little about snow tires and have never felt that I
>> > needed any.
>>
>> I felt the same way until I actually got a set. A set will probably
>> cost a little more than you would pay for a tow, but it's definitely
>> cheaper than the body shop.
>
> I don't claim to be an expert on winter driving. I spent one
> winter in Michigan (1978 - it was bad) and have to endure
> one or two snow storms a year here in NC. I have never found
> driving on snow to be much of a challenge. In fact, the
> winter in Michigan was a piece of cake. I was driving a
> Datsun 280Z at the time and never once had any problem
> despite repeated snow storms and the OE Bridgestone tires.
>
> ... Biggest challenge I had was driving a 2001
> Mustang GT convertible home on a hilly road after an ice
> storm. Between the limited slip rear axle and the traction
> control, the car was almost undrivable. I never lost
> control, but because of the stop and go traffic, I was often
> stopped on the up slope of a steep hill. Getting the car
> started without bring the rear end around was a challenge.
> Fortunately I was patient and eventually made it home
> without incident. I can't say the same for a number of
> people in SUVs who didn't understand that ice equals little
> or no traction no matter how big your tires are and whether
> 2 or 4 are being driven.

Looks like your patience got you through. But, the fact is
that if you had had snows (even if just on the rears of your RWD
cars), you would have had a much easier time of it.

Floyd (Drives on snow up to 100 days a year).

"C. E. White" > wrote
> Arif Khokar wrote:
>> C. E. White wrote:
>>
>> > I know little about snow tires and have never felt that I
>> > needed any.
>>
>> I felt the same way until I actually got a set. A set will probably
>> cost a little more than you would pay for a tow, but it's definitely
>> cheaper than the body shop.
>
> I don't claim to be an expert on winter driving. I spent one
> winter in Michigan (1978 - it was bad) and have to endure
> one or two snow storms a year here in NC. I have never found
> driving on snow to be much of a challenge. In fact, the
> winter in Michigan was a piece of cake. I was driving a
> Datsun 280Z at the time and never once had any problem
> despite repeated snow storms and the OE Bridgestone tires.
>
> ... Biggest challenge I had was driving a 2001
> Mustang GT convertible home on a hilly road after an ice
> storm. Between the limited slip rear axle and the traction
> control, the car was almost undrivable. I never lost
> control, but because of the stop and go traffic, I was often
> stopped on the up slope of a steep hill. Getting the car
> started without bring the rear end around was a challenge.
> Fortunately I was patient and eventually made it home
> without incident. I can't say the same for a number of
> people in SUVs who didn't understand that ice equals little
> or no traction no matter how big your tires are and whether
> 2 or 4 are being driven.

Looks like your patience got you through. But, the fact is
that if you had had snows (even if just on the rears of your RWD
cars), you would have had a much easier time of it.

Floyd (Drives on snow up to 100 days a year).

fbloogyudsr wrote:
>
> "C. E. White" > wrote
> > Arif Khokar wrote:
> >> C. E. White wrote:
> >>
> >> > I know little about snow tires and have never felt that I
> >> > needed any.
> >>
> >> I felt the same way until I actually got a set. A set will probably
> >> cost a little more than you would pay for a tow, but it's definitely
> >> cheaper than the body shop.
> >
> > I don't claim to be an expert on winter driving. I spent one
> > winter in Michigan (1978 - it was bad) and have to endure
> > one or two snow storms a year here in NC. I have never found
> > driving on snow to be much of a challenge. In fact, the
> > winter in Michigan was a piece of cake. I was driving a
> > Datsun 280Z at the time and never once had any problem
> > despite repeated snow storms and the OE Bridgestone tires.
> >
> > ... Biggest challenge I had was driving a 2001
> > Mustang GT convertible home on a hilly road after an ice
> > storm. Between the limited slip rear axle and the traction
> > control, the car was almost undrivable. I never lost
> > control, but because of the stop and go traffic, I was often
> > stopped on the up slope of a steep hill. Getting the car
> > started without bring the rear end around was a challenge.
> > Fortunately I was patient and eventually made it home
> > without incident. I can't say the same for a number of
> > people in SUVs who didn't understand that ice equals little
> > or no traction no matter how big your tires are and whether
> > 2 or 4 are being driven.
>
> Looks like your patience got you through. But, the fact is
> that if you had had snows (even if just on the rears of your RWD
> cars), you would have had a much easier time of it.

Maybe, but from what I have seen, snow tires don't help all
that much on ice. I suppose if I lived in a place where you
had snow on the ground 100 days a year, I'd buy snow tires
as well. I can't see doing it for 5 days a year (well 14
days one year).

Ed