full synthetic VW 505 01 in North America?

In article >,
Mikhael47 > wrote:
>I use Elf Excellence LDX. It's $9 / Lt in canada. It doesn't specifically
>say 505.01, but it's got the 502.0 spec. My TDI repair guy swears by it for
>PD TDIs.

VW 502.00 is not the same as 505.01. Elf does make something called
Excellium that meets the VW 505.01 rating.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:59:45 -0500, "Mikhael47" >
wrote:

>I use Elf Excellence LDX. It's $9 / Lt in canada. It doesn't specifically
>say 505.01, but it's got the 502.0 spec. My TDI repair guy swears by it for
>PD TDIs.
>
>Mike
>

Where do you buy your Elf oil? I prefer to stick to engine oil that
specifically conforms to the 505.01 standard, such as Elf Excellium
505.01, but haven't yet found a supplier.

I just got the following e-mail response from :


Sorry to inform you we are going to be dropping the ELF lineup and we
are
clearing out whatever we have left presently

Hope to be of help to you next time
Best Regards
Ken Lai

--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:57:46 GMT, ax (Achim Nolcken
Lohse) wrote:

....
>I just got the following e-mail response from :
>
>
>Sorry to inform you we are going to be dropping the ELF lineup and we
>are
>clearing out whatever we have left presently
>
Today I phoned boomplustoys in Vancouver and talked to Ken Lai about
the availability of Elf engine oils. He told me he's willing to order
quantities of five litres in, but shipping it to me would be costly.
This prompted me to investigate the Elf site before plunking down $100
for my next oil change. What I found was quite interesting.

Elf's site groups auotomobile engine oils into three main categories:
synthetic, semi-synthetic, and mineral. But when one looks at the
specific product descriptions of the oils on the "synthetic" pages,
some are labelled "synthetic technology oil" (or in French "lubrifiant
de technologie de synthese").

This is the expression used for Elf Excellium DID 5W-40 (which
conforms to the VW 505.01 standard), and for Elf Evolution CRV 0W-30
(VW 506.01). This is also the exact expression that Castrol tech
support ("Ask and Expert") used when I pressed them to tell me whether
Castrol 505.01 is a mineral, synthetic, or semi-synthetic oil. Which
makes me wonder whether, in fact, Castrol 50501 Special Motor Oil is
actually the same oil as Elf Excellium DID 5W-40, possibly made on the
same production line?

The Castrol product's label says "Manufactured by Castrol in the EU",
so it perhaps it was produced by Elf under license, or maybe it's
entirely an ELF product that's been relabelled for Castrol to market
in Germany and North America. The stuff sells for CDN$8.40/L at the
Calgary VW dealerships, less than half what it would cost me to bring
the Elf product from the coast.

OTOH, the page for Elf Excellium 0W-40 (conforming to VW 500.00 and
505.00) describes it as a "100% synthetic oil". IS this difference in
terminology just a lapse in consistency, or does it actually reflect a
significant difference in the product? I've written to Elf tech
support in France asking for clarification, and am awaiting their
response.




--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

Sorry my bad, that's what the spec is...


"Achim Nolcken Lohse" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:59:45 -0500, "Mikhael47" >
> wrote:
>
> >I use Elf Excellence LDX. It's $9 / Lt in canada. It doesn't
specifically
> >say 505.01, but it's got the 502.0 spec. My TDI repair guy swears by it
for
> >PD TDIs.
> >
> >Mike
> >
>
> Where do you buy your Elf oil? I prefer to stick to engine oil that
> specifically conforms to the 505.01 standard, such as Elf Excellium
> 505.01, but haven't yet found a supplier.
>
> I just got the following e-mail response from :
>
>
> Sorry to inform you we are going to be dropping the ELF lineup and we
> are
> clearing out whatever we have left presently
>
> Hope to be of help to you next time
> Best Regards
> Ken Lai
>
> --
>
> Achim
> _____/)
> axethetax

I really don't think it makes much of difference, I have two TDI's, one with
240,000 and the other with 310,000 which I have used Mobil or Amzoil,
(whichever I get a deal on) since new, with no problems as of yet. Last year
my daughter hit a curb in a snow storm and I had to replace the oil pan in the
310,000 Golf and if looked suprisingly good on the bottom end, no sludge etc
and still runs great.

If you are still interested, several of the Amzoil grades meet both 502 and the
505 specs. I have used Shell Rotella in 12v52 TI, Cummins (V12 Turbo 624HP) in
Marine use for years without problems, and I believe they are under a little
more stress that the VW TDI engines. I find it hard to believe that the VW
spec is that critical, unless you have a waranty issue, which I believe is
rare.

Good Luck,
Butch

In article >,
Achim Nolcken Lohse > wrote:
>Elf's site groups auotomobile engine oils into three main categories:
>synthetic, semi-synthetic, and mineral. But when one looks at the
>specific product descriptions of the oils on the "synthetic" pages,
>some are labelled "synthetic technology oil" (or in French "lubrifiant
>de technologie de synthese").

Could it be group III vs. group IV and V? In the US, group III based
oils can be labeled and marketed as "synthetic", but that is not the
case in some other places.

>OTOH, the page for Elf Excellium 0W-40 (conforming to VW 500.00 and
>505.00) describes it as a "100% synthetic oil".

Neither VW 500.00 nor 505.00 is sufficient for a PD TDI engine; if you
have a PD TDI engine that specifies VW 505.01 rated oil, use a VW 505.01
rated oil.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

GBPSWIM wrote:

> I really don't think it makes much of difference, I have two TDI's, one with
> 240,000 and the other with 310,000 which I have used Mobil or Amzoil,
> (whichever I get a deal on) since new, with no problems as of yet. Last year
> my daughter hit a curb in a snow storm and I had to replace the oil pan in the
> 310,000 Golf and if looked suprisingly good on the bottom end, no sludge etc
> and still runs great.
>
> If you are still interested, several of the Amzoil grades meet both 502 and the
> 505 specs. I have used Shell Rotella in 12v52 TI, Cummins (V12 Turbo 624HP) in
> Marine use for years without problems, and I believe they are under a little
> more stress that the VW TDI engines. I find it hard to believe that the VW
> spec is that critical, unless you have a waranty issue, which I believe is
> rare.
>
> Good Luck,
> Butch

there is a very large sign hanging from the rear view mirror in each new pd tdi
equipped 05 vehicle. this is coming from the factory. it says: do not even use a
non spec oil to top off an engine. and also then goes on to say about a dozen other
ways that the spec oil is the ONLY oil that can be used without voiding the
warranty and that is the BEST thing that can happen; there are worse possibilities.

i'd use the spec oil on this one.

regards

On 04 Nov 2004 13:50:42 GMT, (GBPSWIM) wrote:

>I really don't think it makes much of difference, I have two TDI's, one with
>240,000 and the other with 310,000 which I have used Mobil or Amzoil,
>(whichever I get a deal on) since new, with no problems as of yet. Last year
>my daughter hit a curb in a snow storm and I had to replace the oil pan in the
>310,000 Golf and if looked suprisingly good on the bottom end, no sludge etc
>and still runs great.
>
>If you are still interested, several of the Amzoil grades meet both 502 and the
>505 specs. I have used Shell Rotella in 12v52 TI, Cummins (V12 Turbo 624HP) in
>Marine use for years without problems, and I believe they are under a little
>more stress that the VW TDI engines. I find it hard to believe that the VW
>spec is that critical, unless you have a waranty issue, which I believe is
>rare.
>
>Good Luck,
>Butch
>
The problem is that VW Canada HAS made it a major warranty issue for
the TDI-PD engine. They've put a sticker on the engine cover saying
nothing except oil specifically labelled VW 505.01 must EVER be used
in the engine, even to top it up, and that any such transgression will
void the engine warranty. They further warn that adding any non 505.01
oil can cause the engine to fail catastrophically (ie. it's a safety
issue according to VW).

One interesting oddity is that one of Elf's oils which DOESN'T carry
the 505.01 approval on their site, is described as being suitable for
pump-diesel engines AND extended interval use. One would think that
this oil would have to conform to the 505.01 standard, so why isn't it
listed as such?

*****

ELF Evolution 0W30
Very high performance ¡§fuel saving¡¨ engine oil for gas (6/8 Cyl,
Multi valve, turbocharged) and diesel (pump injector) engines based on
most recent technologies. Extended oil change intervals. Any time of
year and all driving styles. Up to 10% fuel economy.

API: SL/CF
ACEA: A5/B5
VW: 503.00/506.00/506.01
FORD

*****
$12USD/17CDN per Litre

--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:31:00 GMT, wrote:

....
>
>there is a very large sign hanging from the rear view mirror in each new pd tdi
>equipped 05 vehicle. this is coming from the factory. it says: do not even use a
>non spec oil to top off an engine. and also then goes on to say about a dozen other
>ways that the spec oil is the ONLY oil that can be used without voiding the
>warranty and that is the BEST thing that can happen; there are worse possibilities.
>
>i'd use the spec oil on this one.
>
Today I received a detailed response to my inquiries on this subject
from Total USA. It seems that Total is just now setting up to
distribute Elf lubricants in western Canada. The wholesaler is locatd
in Vancouver, BC (1-888-307-1108) and is in the process of lining up
retailers for the Elf product line in BC and Alberta.

The correspondence I received affirmed that the Elf 505.01 product is
a full synthetic by North American standards, while the competing
products from Castrol and Motul are not. However, the Elf 505.01
product cannot be called '100% synthetic' by European standards, while
the 506.01 product can, and this accounts for the former being termed
a "synthetic technology oil".

The most interesting revelation was the confirmation that Elf's
Evolution 0W30 506.01 engine oil is indeed the best oil for VW TDI-PD
engines, but was not specified for the North American market at the
request of the North American VW organization. I wasn't given the
reason for this decision, but reading between the lines, it seems to
be motivated by a concern that specifying an oil that's too expensive
will result in many users ignoring the specifications altogether and
using a much cheaper department store oil, with disastrous results for
the engine.


--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

Here is your source.

http://www.thebestsyntheticoil.com/sae_5w40.htm

It is available in quarts, cases (12 quarts), 30-gallon drums, and 55 gallon drums.

Contact me if you have any questions.

--
Bruce Wappman
AMSOIL Dealer
Email:
Web site: www.thebestsyntheticoil.com
Phone: 1.877.290.0135




ax (Achim Nolcken Lohse) wrote in message >...
> Has anyone found a source of fully synthetic VW 505 01 engine oil in
> North America?
>
> The only brands I've been able to find in Canada are Motul, which is a
> "synthetic blend" and outrageously priced at CAD$11/Litre, and
> Castrol, which doesn't even show the word "synthetic" anywhere on the
> package, but is described by Castrol's "aslk and expert" as "a
> synthetic technology product", and isn't cheap either at $8.40/L.
>
> I'd prefer to run a full synthetic, even if it cost more than the
> above.