Porsche 944 taillight question

Already posted to the 944 group, but figured I'd repost it here since
some lighting-knowledgeable people read this group and to my knowledge
don't hang out in Porsche-land.

nate

---

Kind of a several part question - I did this mod on my old VW Scirocco
and thought that it was worthwhile, since occasionally I *do* have to
drive in pea soup fog.

1. Is the rear fog light part of the driver's side taillight cluster, or
is it one of those slung under the bumper deals?

2. If answer to question 1. is "part of the taillight cluster," what is
the pattern of the taillights on the Euro cars? Currently mine (US
model '88) is, from outside to in, tail, reflector, brake (both upper
and lower segments.) I don't believe that the rear fog could take up
the reflector space as IIRC ECE regs require that the rear fog be
separated from the brake light by at least one segment. (or is it the
taillight? I forget.) In any case, on my old Scirocco, this
necessitated moving some wires around and cutting a new hole in the
taillight assembly to accept a bulb for the parking light behind the
previously-unused reflector segment. I know this is nitpicky but I hate
doing mods that someone could look at and go "that's not right..."

3. How is the rear fog switched, and what do I need to buy to make it
happen? Replace factory fog switch with euro version, or is there an
additional switch in the dash somewhere? Is the wiring already in place
in the car for this or will I need to run an additional wire to the rear
of the car?

thanks,

nate
--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"Nate Nagel" ...
> Already posted to the 944 group, but figured I'd repost it here since some
> lighting-knowledgeable people read this group and to my knowledge don't
> hang out in Porsche-land.
>
> nate
>
> ---
>
> Kind of a several part question - I did this mod on my old VW Scirocco and
> thought that it was worthwhile, since occasionally I *do* have to drive in
> pea soup fog.
>
> 1. Is the rear fog light part of the driver's side taillight cluster, or
> is it one of those slung under the bumper deals?

Nate - on the AUS Spec (we are UNECE) the say - 1980+ 944 rear fogs were a
seperate lamp to the taillights, mounted within the rear (of course) egg
contoured bumper bar, NOT far from the taillights. 'Squarish' flush fitting
units with a black plastic Rim. Usually twin lamps, but I think only the
one (drivers side) was activated for our RHD traffic.



> 2. If answer to question 1. is "part of the taillight cluster," what is
> the pattern of the taillights on the Euro cars? Currently mine (US model
> '88) is, from outside to in, tail, reflector, brake (both upper and lower
> segments.) I don't believe that the rear fog could take up the reflector
> space as IIRC ECE regs require that the rear fog be separated from the
> brake light by at least one segment. (or is it the taillight? I forget.)

10cm (100mm) away from the brake light. On some cars, the rear fog can be
incorporated into 'PARK-POSITION' compartment, but this, again, must be 10cm
(100mm) away from any brake light. Some BMW's are an example of this
layout.



In any case, on my old Scirocco, this
> necessitated moving some wires around and cutting a new hole in the
> taillight assembly to accept a bulb for the parking light behind the
> previously-unused reflector segment. I know this is nitpicky but I hate
> doing mods that someone could look at and go "that's not right..."

> 3. How is the rear fog switched, and what do I need to buy to make it
> happen? Replace factory fog switch with euro version, or is there an
> additional switch in the dash somewhere? Is the wiring already in place
> in the car for this or will I need to run an additional wire to the rear
> of the car?

I use a switch either with the rear fog ISO symbol AND the required
AMBER/YELLOW pilot light. 3-Pole. 9Or Similar) The Pilot light/telltale
is mandatory-keep it to yellow or amber.

* Mount lamp - Earth the lamp.

* Run positive feed to 3-pole switch

* Earth the switch 'Earth Pole' (for pilot light function)

* On some NSW Police vehicles I've taken the rear fog light power feed,
either from the vehicles park light wire (sidelights here in UNECE) OR
perhaps better, from the front fog light positive IF these are fitted.

Usual thing - take time to run the cable neatly and away from where they
could sustain damage, use cable ties and quality connectors etc.

Dan or Hella USA might have rear fogs . . .

(New York State has the the FIRST US 'Driver Manual' text advising drivers
what are rear fog light is, and when they may and may not be used).

Rear fogs can be a pain, but in the right conditions I'd not be without one.



> thanks,
>
> nate
> --
> replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
> http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"Nate Nagel" ...
> Already posted to the 944 group, but figured I'd repost it here since some
> lighting-knowledgeable people read this group and to my knowledge don't
> hang out in Porsche-land.
>
> nate
>
> ---
>
> Kind of a several part question - I did this mod on my old VW Scirocco and
> thought that it was worthwhile, since occasionally I *do* have to drive in
> pea soup fog.
>
> 1. Is the rear fog light part of the driver's side taillight cluster, or
> is it one of those slung under the bumper deals?

Nate - on the AUS Spec (we are UNECE) the say - 1980+ 944 rear fogs were a
seperate lamp to the taillights, mounted within the rear (of course) egg
contoured bumper bar, NOT far from the taillights. 'Squarish' flush fitting
units with a black plastic Rim. Usually twin lamps, but I think only the
one (drivers side) was activated for our RHD traffic.



> 2. If answer to question 1. is "part of the taillight cluster," what is
> the pattern of the taillights on the Euro cars? Currently mine (US model
> '88) is, from outside to in, tail, reflector, brake (both upper and lower
> segments.) I don't believe that the rear fog could take up the reflector
> space as IIRC ECE regs require that the rear fog be separated from the
> brake light by at least one segment. (or is it the taillight? I forget.)

10cm (100mm) away from the brake light. On some cars, the rear fog can be
incorporated into 'PARK-POSITION' compartment, but this, again, must be 10cm
(100mm) away from any brake light. Some BMW's are an example of this
layout.



In any case, on my old Scirocco, this
> necessitated moving some wires around and cutting a new hole in the
> taillight assembly to accept a bulb for the parking light behind the
> previously-unused reflector segment. I know this is nitpicky but I hate
> doing mods that someone could look at and go "that's not right..."

> 3. How is the rear fog switched, and what do I need to buy to make it
> happen? Replace factory fog switch with euro version, or is there an
> additional switch in the dash somewhere? Is the wiring already in place
> in the car for this or will I need to run an additional wire to the rear
> of the car?

I use a switch either with the rear fog ISO symbol AND the required
AMBER/YELLOW pilot light. 3-Pole. 9Or Similar) The Pilot light/telltale
is mandatory-keep it to yellow or amber.

* Mount lamp - Earth the lamp.

* Run positive feed to 3-pole switch

* Earth the switch 'Earth Pole' (for pilot light function)

* On some NSW Police vehicles I've taken the rear fog light power feed,
either from the vehicles park light wire (sidelights here in UNECE) OR
perhaps better, from the front fog light positive IF these are fitted.

Usual thing - take time to run the cable neatly and away from where they
could sustain damage, use cable ties and quality connectors etc.

Dan or Hella USA might have rear fogs . . .

(New York State has the the FIRST US 'Driver Manual' text advising drivers
what are rear fog light is, and when they may and may not be used).

Rear fogs can be a pain, but in the right conditions I'd not be without one.



> thanks,
>
> nate
> --
> replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
> http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Mot Adv-NSW wrote:

> "Nate Nagel" ...
>
>>Already posted to the 944 group, but figured I'd repost it here since some
>>lighting-knowledgeable people read this group and to my knowledge don't
>>hang out in Porsche-land.
>>
>>nate
>>
>>---
>>
>>Kind of a several part question - I did this mod on my old VW Scirocco and
>>thought that it was worthwhile, since occasionally I *do* have to drive in
>>pea soup fog.
>>
>>1. Is the rear fog light part of the driver's side taillight cluster, or
>>is it one of those slung under the bumper deals?
>
>
> Nate - on the AUS Spec (we are UNECE) the say - 1980+ 944 rear fogs were a
> seperate lamp to the taillights, mounted within the rear (of course) egg
> contoured bumper bar, NOT far from the taillights. 'Squarish' flush fitting
> units with a black plastic Rim. Usually twin lamps, but I think only the
> one (drivers side) was activated for our RHD traffic.
>

Ungh. Sounds like I'd need a whole Euro bumper assembly then. I might
just have to go with an add on unit, unless I get a screamin' deal on
new bumpers. (yes they are completely different, I actually like the US
front design better as it moves the fog lights out of the bumper and
into the air dam)

thanks,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Mot Adv-NSW wrote:

> "Nate Nagel" ...
>
>>Already posted to the 944 group, but figured I'd repost it here since some
>>lighting-knowledgeable people read this group and to my knowledge don't
>>hang out in Porsche-land.
>>
>>nate
>>
>>---
>>
>>Kind of a several part question - I did this mod on my old VW Scirocco and
>>thought that it was worthwhile, since occasionally I *do* have to drive in
>>pea soup fog.
>>
>>1. Is the rear fog light part of the driver's side taillight cluster, or
>>is it one of those slung under the bumper deals?
>
>
> Nate - on the AUS Spec (we are UNECE) the say - 1980+ 944 rear fogs were a
> seperate lamp to the taillights, mounted within the rear (of course) egg
> contoured bumper bar, NOT far from the taillights. 'Squarish' flush fitting
> units with a black plastic Rim. Usually twin lamps, but I think only the
> one (drivers side) was activated for our RHD traffic.
>

Ungh. Sounds like I'd need a whole Euro bumper assembly then. I might
just have to go with an add on unit, unless I get a screamin' deal on
new bumpers. (yes they are completely different, I actually like the US
front design better as it moves the fog lights out of the bumper and
into the air dam)

thanks,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"Nate Nagel"

>
> Ungh. Sounds like I'd need a whole Euro bumper assembly then. I might
> just have to go with an add on unit, unless I get a screamin' deal on new
> bumpers. (yes they are completely different, I actually like the US front
> design better as it moves the fog lights out of the bumper and into the
> air dam)

Nate - take this link to a 944 EU Spec. The rear fogs in the pic, ARE those
compartments nearest the numberplate. They have a shall I describe
'polished' reflector within. The 924 type had the same.

http://puosu.dna.fi/~kerappo/cars/ca....DSCF0021.html


*** My previous text related to 928's sorry, below.

This Link to a US 928 type
http://www.928registry.org/1983-928S-1993.htm

The rear fogs on this model were placed as earlier described. (Adjacent to
the bumper overrides, just a little higher on that flat-plane you can see.
The bumper over-riders are not UNECE)

"Nate Nagel"

>
> Ungh. Sounds like I'd need a whole Euro bumper assembly then. I might
> just have to go with an add on unit, unless I get a screamin' deal on new
> bumpers. (yes they are completely different, I actually like the US front
> design better as it moves the fog lights out of the bumper and into the
> air dam)

Nate - take this link to a 944 EU Spec. The rear fogs in the pic, ARE those
compartments nearest the numberplate. They have a shall I describe
'polished' reflector within. The 924 type had the same.

http://puosu.dna.fi/~kerappo/cars/ca....DSCF0021.html


*** My previous text related to 928's sorry, below.

This Link to a US 928 type
http://www.928registry.org/1983-928S-1993.htm

The rear fogs on this model were placed as earlier described. (Adjacent to
the bumper overrides, just a little higher on that flat-plane you can see.
The bumper over-riders are not UNECE)

Mot Adv-NSW wrote:

> "Nate Nagel"
>
>
>>Ungh. Sounds like I'd need a whole Euro bumper assembly then. I might
>>just have to go with an add on unit, unless I get a screamin' deal on new
>>bumpers. (yes they are completely different, I actually like the US front
>>design better as it moves the fog lights out of the bumper and into the
>>air dam)
>
>
> Nate - take this link to a 944 EU Spec. The rear fogs in the pic, ARE those
> compartments nearest the numberplate. They have a shall I describe
> 'polished' reflector within. The 924 type had the same.
>
> http://puosu.dna.fi/~kerappo/cars/ca....DSCF0021.html
>

OK, our taillights look just like that. Let me guess, on your cars, the
outside segment is the brake light and the "reflector" segment doubles
as the tail light? That's kind of what I suspected but wanted to hear
it from someone who *knew.*

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Mot Adv-NSW wrote:

> "Nate Nagel"
>
>
>>Ungh. Sounds like I'd need a whole Euro bumper assembly then. I might
>>just have to go with an add on unit, unless I get a screamin' deal on new
>>bumpers. (yes they are completely different, I actually like the US front
>>design better as it moves the fog lights out of the bumper and into the
>>air dam)
>
>
> Nate - take this link to a 944 EU Spec. The rear fogs in the pic, ARE those
> compartments nearest the numberplate. They have a shall I describe
> 'polished' reflector within. The 924 type had the same.
>
> http://puosu.dna.fi/~kerappo/cars/ca....DSCF0021.html
>

OK, our taillights look just like that. Let me guess, on your cars, the
outside segment is the brake light and the "reflector" segment doubles
as the tail light? That's kind of what I suspected but wanted to hear
it from someone who *knew.*

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
...
> Mot Adv-NSW wrote:
>
>> "Nate Nagel"
>>
>>
>>>Ungh. Sounds like I'd need a whole Euro bumper assembly then. I might
>>>just have to go with an add on unit, unless I get a screamin' deal on new
>>>bumpers. (yes they are completely different, I actually like the US
>>>front design better as it moves the fog lights out of the bumper and into
>>>the air dam)
>>
>>
>> Nate - take this link to a 944 EU Spec. The rear fogs in the pic, ARE
>> those compartments nearest the numberplate. They have a shall I describe
>> 'polished' reflector within. The 924 type had the same.
>>
>> http://puosu.dna.fi/~kerappo/cars/ca....DSCF0021.html
>>
>
> OK, our taillights look just like that. Let me guess, on your cars, the
> outside segment is the brake light and the "reflector" segment doubles as
> the tail light? That's kind of what I suspected but wanted to hear it
> from someone who *knew.*

That's it.....

On 'SOME' year models, the taillight was behind both the reflector (smallish
10w bayonet) AND brake light using a 5/21w bulb in our terms.

The rear fog, as with reverse, and indicator, a (P21w).

You could source a pair of these taillights though 'Wreckers' as we call
them in AUS, or 'BREAKERS' as they say in GB. Most yards take Mastercard
etc, try the net maybe.

Mostly the model was wired so only the driver side rear fog would function.
You will be learn-ed as to why etc....


OT
Not sure if your US wiring is set for what I'll describe here as 'left and
right park lights'??? One turns off the ignition and removes the key, then
turns say the 'indicator' stalk DOWN - for the front RIGHT and rear RIGHT
park light.

UP for the LEFT FRONT and REAR parkers.

Saves battery power..... A goodsense German thing....



> nate
>
> --
> replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
> http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel