No brake lights!

I just noticed yesterday I have no brake lights- zilch- zip- none at all. I
usually check every so often to be sure they are working, so I don't think
they were out long. I would likely had a roadside counsel with the long arm
of the law too. Here's what I tried today-
Checked fuses
Checked all bulbs
Verified other lights -4 way/turns and running all working okay.
Disconnected high mount light at connector to eliminate that line
Checked brake light switch at pedal- OK
Fluid a bit low but not below min- topped up
Got out my meter and checked at bulb sockets - brake light lead is shorted
to ground
Unplugged rear harness- short goes away at bulb sockets, but remains in
forward part. No problem in rear section.
So I am thinking it has to be forward in wiring, some sensor or in module
somewhere.
Found no obvious wiring problem in what I could trace by eye to the front
I am about out of ideas. Can I unplug the ABS module to see if that
eliminates the short to ground without damaging it? Will I have to trace
wire by wire- cutting into and then splicing as I go (measuring continuity
without possibility of feedback from other parts of circuit.) to find it? I
hope I don't have to that.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated. It is a '94.
I would also like to find out where I can obtain Ford wiring diagram with
all splices and connectors labeled and identified as to location on vehicle.
Haynes book I have doesn't go that far. TIA
-Dan

Change your brake switch....I *just* had the same thing happen, save the
involvement of the constabulary.
The interesting part about it is that I had been experiencing an issue for
about a month, so had bought a code reader, which had given me a code of 39,
saying something about the torque converter and lockup. I was still under
warranty from the last transmission repair (barely). Replacing the break
switch made the code go away. The transmission shop says it was because of
the break switch, I don't know, but I'll take it.

"Dan Hall" > wrote in message
...
|I just noticed yesterday I have no brake lights- zilch- zip- none at all. I
| usually check every so often to be sure they are working, so I don't think
| they were out long. I would likely had a roadside counsel with the long
arm
| of the law too. Here's what I tried today-
| Checked fuses
| Checked all bulbs
| Verified other lights -4 way/turns and running all working okay.
| Disconnected high mount light at connector to eliminate that line
| Checked brake light switch at pedal- OK
| Fluid a bit low but not below min- topped up
| Got out my meter and checked at bulb sockets - brake light lead is shorted
| to ground
| Unplugged rear harness- short goes away at bulb sockets, but remains in
| forward part. No problem in rear section.
| So I am thinking it has to be forward in wiring, some sensor or in module
| somewhere.
| Found no obvious wiring problem in what I could trace by eye to the front
| I am about out of ideas. Can I unplug the ABS module to see if that
| eliminates the short to ground without damaging it? Will I have to trace
| wire by wire- cutting into and then splicing as I go (measuring continuity
| without possibility of feedback from other parts of circuit.) to find it?
I
| hope I don't have to that.
|
| Any comments would be greatly appreciated. It is a '94.
| I would also like to find out where I can obtain Ford wiring diagram with
| all splices and connectors labeled and identified as to location on
vehicle.
| Haynes book I have doesn't go that far. TIA
| -Dan
|
|

The PCM watches the brake light circuit to determine several things... one
being to unlock the torque converter clutch. Without BPP input, it has to
determine if the TCC needs to be unlock from a combination of other inputs.
This can lead to ride harshness and/or unneccesary wear.

HTH.

Yes, he said something about that, and that it may have contributed to
the destruction of the last tranny.
The other codes cleared up, leaving only a MAF sensor left to deal with.
Replaced it with one from salvage for $10 and the codes are all cleaned up.
So all of my troubles were a MAF sensor and a break switch? How odd.
Would you have guessed this, Jim?


"Jim Warman" > wrote in message
news:gcsvd.27064$eb3.24508@clgrps13...
| The PCM watches the brake light circuit to determine several things... one
| being to unlock the torque converter clutch. Without BPP input, it has to
| determine if the TCC needs to be unlock from a combination of other
inputs.
| This can lead to ride harshness and/or unneccesary wear.
|
| HTH.
|
|
|

It would have been a fair long shot guess..... but then, nothing beats
having the car in front of you and an identifiable concern that can be
recreated. Intermittents can go a long way to reducing ones follicle
count...


"John Riggs" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, he said something about that, and that it may have contributed to
> the destruction of the last tranny.
> The other codes cleared up, leaving only a MAF sensor left to deal with.
> Replaced it with one from salvage for $10 and the codes are all cleaned
> up.
> So all of my troubles were a MAF sensor and a break switch? How odd.
> Would you have guessed this, Jim?
>
>
> "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
> news:gcsvd.27064$eb3.24508@clgrps13...
> | The PCM watches the brake light circuit to determine several things...
> one
> | being to unlock the torque converter clutch. Without BPP input, it has
> to
> | determine if the TCC needs to be unlock from a combination of other
> inputs.
> | This can lead to ride harshness and/or unneccesary wear.
> |
> | HTH.
> |
> |
> |
>
>

Being an electronics tech and computer geek doesn't make it any easier.
When a light doesn't go on when I flip a switch, we tend to diagnose the
whole circuit rather than just replacing the bulb.


"Jim Warman" > wrote in message
news:Qewvd.23295$U47.19028@clgrps12...
| It would have been a fair long shot guess..... but then, nothing beats
| having the car in front of you and an identifiable concern that can be
| recreated. Intermittents can go a long way to reducing ones follicle
| count...
|
|
| "John Riggs" > wrote in message
| ...
| > Yes, he said something about that, and that it may have contributed
to
| > the destruction of the last tranny.
| > The other codes cleared up, leaving only a MAF sensor left to deal with.
| > Replaced it with one from salvage for $10 and the codes are all cleaned
| > up.
| > So all of my troubles were a MAF sensor and a break switch? How odd.
| > Would you have guessed this, Jim?
| >
| >
| > "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
| > news:gcsvd.27064$eb3.24508@clgrps13...
| > | The PCM watches the brake light circuit to determine several things...
| > one
| > | being to unlock the torque converter clutch. Without BPP input, it has
| > to
| > | determine if the TCC needs to be unlock from a combination of other
| > inputs.
| > | This can lead to ride harshness and/or unneccesary wear.
| > |
| > | HTH.
| > |
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

Here's where it gets hard (of course you can come back with "nifty" stuff in
your bailywick)..... When I push the "t" on my keyboard, I expect to see a
"t"on the screen. The BOO or BPP sensor on your car sends signals to the ABS
system, the stop lights, the PCM, possibly the RCM (restraints control
module), cruise control, maybe the TCM (transmission control module) and
sundry other places.

There are days that being at work makes chasing a wireless network problem
at home look like childs play.... The modern automobile is closer to being a
robotic arm than it is computer.... Fifteen years ago, I prayed my boy
wouldn't choose this trade...... now I wish he would. I can foresee the day
when good techs are treated more like sports figures than grease-monkeys.


"John Riggs" > wrote in message
...
> Being an electronics tech and computer geek doesn't make it any easier.
> When a light doesn't go on when I flip a switch, we tend to diagnose the
> whole circuit rather than just replacing the bulb.
>
>
> "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
> news:Qewvd.23295$U47.19028@clgrps12...
> | It would have been a fair long shot guess..... but then, nothing beats
> | having the car in front of you and an identifiable concern that can be
> | recreated. Intermittents can go a long way to reducing ones follicle
> | count...
> |
> |
> | "John Riggs" > wrote in message
> | ...
> | > Yes, he said something about that, and that it may have contributed
> to
> | > the destruction of the last tranny.
> | > The other codes cleared up, leaving only a MAF sensor left to deal
> with.
> | > Replaced it with one from salvage for $10 and the codes are all
> cleaned
> | > up.
> | > So all of my troubles were a MAF sensor and a break switch? How odd.
> | > Would you have guessed this, Jim?
> | >
> | >
> | > "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
> | > news:gcsvd.27064$eb3.24508@clgrps13...
> | > | The PCM watches the brake light circuit to determine several
> things...
> | > one
> | > | being to unlock the torque converter clutch. Without BPP input, it
> has
> | > to
> | > | determine if the TCC needs to be unlock from a combination of other
> | > inputs.
> | > | This can lead to ride harshness and/or unneccesary wear.
> | > |
> | > | HTH.
> | > |
> | > |
> | > |
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
>
>

Actually, wireless networking *is* a breeze. :-)

When I went to college for electronics ( yes, I have a degree ), I was
studying heavily in robotics and artificial intelligence. What happened is
that there are that many available jobs here for those position, and I ended
up migrating to computers and technical repairs. Not much you can tell me
would surprise me.

I am fortunate to have a client that has a salvage yard and I get parts
pretty reasonable or free.. What I am noticing ( I'm gonna catch Hell for
this ) is that salvage yards have way more GM, Chrysler, and Japanese parts
than Fords. I really like my ford trucks...I just wish they had designed the
Explorer to be more of a truck than it is. It's not much more than a 4X4
station wagon in it's present state, but that's okay.




"Jim Warman" > wrote in message
news:27yvd.23299$U47.1015@clgrps12...
| Here's where it gets hard (of course you can come back with "nifty" stuff
in
| your bailywick)..... When I push the "t" on my keyboard, I expect to see a
| "t"on the screen. The BOO or BPP sensor on your car sends signals to the
ABS
| system, the stop lights, the PCM, possibly the RCM (restraints control
| module), cruise control, maybe the TCM (transmission control module) and
| sundry other places.
|
| There are days that being at work makes chasing a wireless network problem
| at home look like childs play.... The modern automobile is closer to being
a
| robotic arm than it is computer.... Fifteen years ago, I prayed my boy
| wouldn't choose this trade...... now I wish he would. I can foresee the
day
| when good techs are treated more like sports figures than grease-monkeys.
|
|
| "John Riggs" > wrote in message
| ...
| > Being an electronics tech and computer geek doesn't make it any
easier.
| > When a light doesn't go on when I flip a switch, we tend to diagnose the
| > whole circuit rather than just replacing the bulb.
| >
| >
| > "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
| > news:Qewvd.23295$U47.19028@clgrps12...
| > | It would have been a fair long shot guess..... but then, nothing beats
| > | having the car in front of you and an identifiable concern that can be
| > | recreated. Intermittents can go a long way to reducing ones follicle
| > | count...
| > |
| > |
| > | "John Riggs" > wrote in message
| > | ...
| > | > Yes, he said something about that, and that it may have
contributed
| > to
| > | > the destruction of the last tranny.
| > | > The other codes cleared up, leaving only a MAF sensor left to deal
| > with.
| > | > Replaced it with one from salvage for $10 and the codes are all
| > cleaned
| > | > up.
| > | > So all of my troubles were a MAF sensor and a break switch? How odd.
| > | > Would you have guessed this, Jim?
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
| > | > news:gcsvd.27064$eb3.24508@clgrps13...
| > | > | The PCM watches the brake light circuit to determine several
| > things...
| > | > one
| > | > | being to unlock the torque converter clutch. Without BPP input, it
| > has
| > | > to
| > | > | determine if the TCC needs to be unlock from a combination of
other
| > | > inputs.
| > | > | This can lead to ride harshness and/or unneccesary wear.
| > | > |
| > | > | HTH.
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:49:20 -0600, "John Riggs"
> wrote:

> Actually, wireless networking *is* a breeze. :-)

It is *if* everything goes right!

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

Whatcha mean *if*? It's what I do. It can't be any other way or I'm not
doing my job.
One of the biggest causes of failure is the tendency for people to want to
choose their equipment, based on their wallet. Just like your car, you what
you pay for. Quality equipment costs a bit more, but the end performance is
worth it's weight in gold. Low end equipment may work well for a while, but
it will eventually break your heart.


"Big Bill" > wrote in message
...
| On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:49:20 -0600, "John Riggs"
| > wrote:
|
| > Actually, wireless networking *is* a breeze. :-)
|
| It is *if* everything goes right!
|
| --
| Bill Funk
| Change "g" to "a"