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#11
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 00:08:55 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
> wrote: >On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, William. Boyd wrote: > >> I use Liquid wrench, WD is good but the LW is a tad better. > >Both of them are silly kid stuff. Kroil and Mopar 3418039 are the only two >penetrating fluids worth messing with. The nut part of the plug, if I read the OP's post correctly, is gone, leaving only the threaded bottom portion of the plug in the hole. With the nut gone, on a dead-cold engine block, there shouldn't be _much_ holding the threads in place except for corrosion. I guess the EZ-out idea is a good one but I would use that as a last resort, since you have to drill into the lower part of the plug and that is almost guaranteed to place particles of plug in the cylinder. I would try a screwdriver blade gently hammered into the porcelain, so as not to break it but create a slot for the screwdriver head, and try to work -that-. EZ out would be final solution, not first choice. And use compressed air to clean out everything before trying to unscrew base of plug. I don't think I would go to the trouble of pulling the head unless something like the porcelain bottom with the electrode fell into the cylinder. Of course, maybe OP's engine is -easy- to work on. In that case, sure pull the head. If it is bank 2 on my engine, it is very simple, but put a new head gasket on there for bank 2 before replacing head. Lg |
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#12
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"Lawrence Glickman" > wrote in message ... > On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 00:08:55 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern" > > wrote: > > >On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, William. Boyd wrote: > > > >> I use Liquid wrench, WD is good but the LW is a tad better. > > > >Both of them are silly kid stuff. Kroil and Mopar 3418039 are the only two > >penetrating fluids worth messing with. > > The nut part of the plug, if I read the OP's post correctly, is gone, > leaving only the threaded bottom portion of the plug in the hole. > > With the nut gone, on a dead-cold engine block, there shouldn't be > _much_ holding the threads in place except for corrosion. > > I guess the EZ-out idea is a good one but I would use that as a last > resort, since you have to drill into the lower part of the plug and > that is almost guaranteed to place particles of plug in the cylinder. > I would try a screwdriver blade gently hammered into the porcelain, so > as not to break it but create a slot for the screwdriver head, and try > to work -that-. EZ out would be final solution, not first choice. There's no need to drill anything with the correct size easy-out. The correct size being 9/16 IIRC. Since all that remains is the threads the entire porcelain can be removed with a flex grabber. My first choice would be a beer. But the easy-out is a close second. Have you ever really extracted a broken plug? > And use compressed air to clean out everything before trying to > unscrew base of plug. I don't think I would go to the trouble of > pulling the head unless something like the porcelain bottom with the > electrode fell into the cylinder. > > Of course, maybe OP's engine is -easy- to work on. In that case, sure > pull the head. If it is bank 2 on my engine, it is very simple, but > put a new head gasket on there for bank 2 before replacing head. > > Lg > |
#13
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:04:24 -0500, "Chas Hurst" >
wrote: >There's no need to drill anything with the correct size easy-out. The >correct size being 9/16 IIRC. You are ass/u/ming that all the porcelain is removed? He only has a threaded metal cylinder to remove? >Since all that remains is the threads the entire porcelain can be removed >with a flex grabber. Oh, there IS porcelain remaining, but it can be removed with a flex grabber. What makes you so sure? A flex grabber is a puny little tool for picking up nuts and bolts at the bottom of water tanks, not wrestling spark plugs out of their mounts. > My first choice would be a beer. But the easy-out is a >close second. >Have you ever really extracted a broken plug? Nope. I don't break spark plugs off in their holes. Then again, I don't work on em 5 to 7 days/week either. I agree with you on one thing, the easy-out is 2nd choice when compared to beer, when it comes to a penetrating lubricant. Lg |
#14
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"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in
n.umich.edu: > On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, William. Boyd wrote: > >> I use Liquid wrench, WD is good but the LW is a tad better. > > Both of them are silly kid stuff. Kroil and Mopar 3418039 are the only > two penetrating fluids worth messing with. > Kroil is the stuff that works. Not sure what the Mopar is...but probably Kroil packaged in a Mopar bottle. In just about any industrial setting, you will find that Kroil is the penetrating oil of choice. It works really well as a cleaning agent also, lifts that grime right up. -- Anthony You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make better idiots. Remove sp to reply via email |
#15
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, William. Boyd wrote: > > >>I use Liquid wrench, WD is good but the LW is a tad better. > > > Both of them are silly kid stuff. Kroil and Mopar 3418039 are the only two > penetrating fluids worth messing with. I agree with you on the Kroil, never tried the MoPar stuff, but I've also been mightily impressed by Wuerth Rost Off (also not likely to find locally, but easy if you mail order parts for German cars) and had decent luck with PB Blaster (available in most chain auto parts stores now.) nate -- replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
#16
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"Lawrence Glickman" > wrote in message ... > On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:04:24 -0500, "Chas Hurst" > > wrote: > > >There's no need to drill anything with the correct size easy-out. The > >correct size being 9/16 IIRC. > > You are ass/u/ming that all the porcelain is removed? He only has a > threaded metal cylinder to remove? > > >Since all that remains is the threads the entire porcelain can be removed > >with a flex grabber. > > Oh, there IS porcelain remaining, but it can be removed with a flex > grabber. What makes you so sure? A flex grabber is a puny little > tool for picking up nuts and bolts at the bottom of water tanks, not > wrestling spark plugs out of their mounts. Once the hex is torn off the plug the porcelain comes out quite easily. And since I use a magnetic spark plug socket, the porcelain usually remains in the head. Why are you argueing about a job you have never done? > > My first choice would be a beer. But the easy-out is a > >close second. > >Have you ever really extracted a broken plug? > > Nope. I don't break spark plugs off in their holes. Then again, I > don't work on em 5 to 7 days/week either. > > I agree with you on one thing, the easy-out is 2nd choice when > compared to beer, when it comes to a penetrating lubricant. > > Lg |
#17
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On the subject of penetants, I've used Kroil when I worked at a
factory, seemed like good stuff but haven't seen it anywhere else since I left there. I've been using that "Deep Creep" made by Sea Foam; don't know how it ranks as a penetrant (seems to do the job) and it's fairly expensive, but what I REALLY find useful about it is that it will spray upside down(!), which in my opinion is very handy & practical. |
#18
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A mechanic twisted off #7 spark plug on my '96 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.7 Liter V-8. (Furthest back on left, and obstructed by master cylinder, vacuum chamber, steering column, and several brake-lines. At least it sloped forward, instead of rearward). He then sent me on my way to have it dealt with somewhere else. And, yes, it was a Champion plug as has been criticized by some on the web (RC12YC)..14mm, 3/4" reach. I wasn't quick enough to challenge him when he used only a simple ratchet handle and socket, which exerts extra side-pressure on the threads, and a harmful side-tilting force on the plug. He ovbviously should have used an extension, using any method to insure that the extension only exerted pure "rotational force" on the spark plug. He had advised against using an impact tool on it. In fairness, I had removed the other 7 plugs and another one was extremely tight, and I had thought it might twist off. I took the last one to the mechanic because I thought he might have some better method. Some of my initial ideas for removing the threads failed, wasting a period of time ..(lucky I didn't need the truck)....including a few careless maneuvers that cost me a lot of wasted time and effort...especially because of waiting almost a day every time I used JB-Weld epoxy that needed to cure. It's possible some of my attempts may have helped a little, BUT HERE IS WHAT FINALLY WORKED: (based on a web- poster's success using an oxy/acetyln torch for heating). I bought a "square-type", tapered bolt remover (usually called Easy-Outs) sized for 5/16" hole. Then bought a can of some kind of "freezing spray" at Radio Shack that can chill to -50 degree F. (Also available at www.mcminone.com "Envi-Ro-Tech Freezer" #20-2200, 1-800-543-4330 or 1-877-626-3532). I then went back to the mechanic and he used his Oxy/Acetlyn torch with a very small tip to heat the the remaining spark plug shell to a cherry- red. I then immediately sprayed it with the cold-spray, after which he was able to use the square easy-out to remove the remains of the spark plug. (Actually, we repeated the heating, chilling sequence a second time). He admitted that he had never been able to get them out before and had initially sent me away to a machine shop when he first broke it off. I, of course, got my suggestions from posters on the internet. In hindsight, I might try an alternate approach first: I bought a Left Hand thread tap (3/8"-16) that can be hand-turned thru the existing hole (strongly magnetized to retain the metal particles...the shell spark gap electrode only bent, it did not separate and fall into the cylinder). This provides two things...it thins, or weakens the shell a little, and when a left-hand thread bolt is screwed in, it bottoms out counter-clockwise after which force is now applied to turning the plug shell out....without any outward pressure to the sides, such as a tapered square easy-out must have (heating cherry red as before). Unfortunately, I only thought of this after I had earlier run a right-hand tap through...and as I suspected the threads were too weak to avoid stripping out. I was only able to buy a grade 5 bolt strength (left-hand), so a judgement would have to be made, whether it would twist off. Of course we had the same worry with the tapered square easy-out. ....so it's possible my earlier misadventure cutting the threads, did help in the final success. Needless to say, I used Anti-seize paste on the threads, although some claim that changes the "heat-range" value. __________________________________________________ ______________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! |
#19
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Heating and quickly cooling (usually with water) is a time honored
tradition with good mechanics to unfreeze stubborn bolts and nuts! For some reason they like to turn tighter first then out after these procedures. Soaking first with any of the better penetrating oils is always recommended. WD40 is more of a water displaceer and slight lubricant. The name supposedly comes from Water Displacement Formula # 40??? Dodgem Gene Gardner wrote: > A mechanic twisted off #7 spark plug on my '96 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.7 > Liter V-8. (Furthest back on left, and obstructed by master cylinder, > vacuum chamber, steering column, and several brake-lines. At least > it sloped forward, instead of rearward). He then sent me on my way to > have it dealt with somewhere else. And, yes, it was a Champion plug > as has been criticized by some on the web (RC12YC)..14mm, 3/4" reach. > I wasn't quick enough to challenge him when he used only a simple > ratchet handle and socket, which exerts extra side-pressure on the > threads, and a harmful side-tilting force on the plug. He ovbviously > should have used an extension, using any method to insure that the > extension only exerted pure "rotational force" on the spark plug. > He had advised against using an impact tool on it. > In fairness, I had removed the other 7 plugs and another one was > extremely tight, and I had thought it might twist off. I took the last > one to the mechanic because I thought he might have some better method. > > > Some of my initial ideas for removing the threads failed, wasting > a period of time ..(lucky I didn't need the truck)....including a few > careless maneuvers that cost me a lot of wasted time and > effort...especially because of waiting almost a day every time I used > JB-Weld epoxy that needed to cure. It's possible some of my attempts may > have helped a little, BUT HERE IS WHAT FINALLY WORKED: (based on a web- > poster's success using an oxy/acetyln torch for heating). > > > I bought a "square-type", tapered bolt remover (usually called Easy-Outs) > sized for 5/16" hole. Then bought a can of some kind of "freezing > spray" at Radio Shack that can chill to -50 degree F. (Also available > at www.mcminone.com "Envi-Ro-Tech Freezer" #20-2200, 1-800-543-4330 > or 1-877-626-3532). > > I then went back to the mechanic and he used > his Oxy/Acetlyn torch with a very small tip to heat the the > remaining spark plug shell to a cherry- red. I then immediately sprayed > it with the cold-spray, after which he was able to use the square > easy-out to remove the remains of the spark plug. (Actually, we repeated > the heating, chilling sequence a second time). He admitted that he had > never been able to get them out before and had initially sent me away to > a machine shop when he first broke it off. I, of course, got my > suggestions from posters on the internet. > > In hindsight, I might try an alternate approach first: I bought a Left > Hand thread tap (3/8"-16) that can be hand-turned thru the existing hole > (strongly magnetized to retain the metal particles...the shell spark gap > electrode only bent, it did not separate and fall into the cylinder). > This provides two things...it thins, or weakens the shell a little, and > when a left-hand thread bolt is screwed in, it bottoms out > counter-clockwise after which force is now applied to turning the plug > shell out....without any outward pressure to the sides, such as a tapered > square easy-out must have (heating cherry red as before). Unfortunately, > I only thought of this after I had earlier run a right-hand tap > through...and as I suspected the threads were too weak to avoid stripping > out. I was only able to buy a grade 5 bolt strength (left-hand), so a > judgement would have to be made, whether it would twist off. Of course > we had the same worry with the tapered square easy-out. > ...so it's possible my earlier misadventure cutting the threads, did help > in the final success. > > Needless to say, I used Anti-seize paste on the threads, although some > claim that changes the "heat-range" value. > > __________________________________________________ ______________ > Get your name as your email address. > Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more > Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! > |
#20
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Try something called Kroil if you can find it. We use it at work in a
Chemical and Oil facility. This stuff works. It comes in spray form and liquid. We buy it in both forms. It also comes in bulk 55 gallon Drums. We use a regular squirt bottle like 409 comes in to refill as needed. The spray cans are more convenient. Sarge |
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