Electric Vehicles

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:55:23 +0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
> wrote:

>On 2010-09-16, Steve W. > wrote:
>> Yes, It's VERY common once you get out of the city. The wife drives 34
>> miles one way to her job. Going to be a long walk home...
>
>The liberals promoting this nonsense typically live in cities
>and have no knowledge of living in rural areas. I've lived in
>places where it was an hour's drive to the nearest supermarket!

You're either a real mountain man or an idiot too stupid to find a
place to live near a store.
Normal crock of **** you come to expect from commies who think they're
something else.
Now they're telling people they can't have an electric car.
I already subsidize the big honking SUVs and pickups they use to haul
a couple bags of groceries and their big screen TV.

Now they want to tell people they can't have an electric car.
They don't care one bit about the marketplace, just resent those who
act differently than them.
Fancy themselves "country" or "rural" with their big modern SUVs and
pickups, satellite dishes, granite countertops, Jacuzzi's, Ipods.
Oh yeah, they're country all right.

My ma grew up on 160 acres of hardscrabble farm in the Missouri
Ozarks.
Her and her folks got there in a boxcar during the depression.
Spent my summers there as a tyke in the 50's.
Pulled water with a rope and bucket from the well, drank from a
dipper, bathed outside in a washtub, ate fresh killed chicken and
listened to Red Foley on the radio. Fetched wood from the woodpile
for the stove, and picked ticks every night before bedtime.
You could hear for miles, but might only hear a car or truck on the
rocky RR once a day, and sometimes none a day.
Couldn't see the road from the house, just sometimes a cloud of dust.
If grand dad heard a car stop at the gate he'd get out his rifle and
go to greet the visitor.
Only time it happened when I was there over maybe 7 summers I heard
the car take off and grand dad came back alone.
That was a brother from Virginia that he hadn't seen for 20 years.
Chased him off. Either grand dad was half-crazy or his brother was.

But he had no trouble going to Doniphan every week or so in his Ford
pickup to pick up a block of ice from the ice house, chicken feed and
whatever else we needed. I would ride in the pickup bed sitting on
the burlap covering the ice.

Now I don't claim to be a country boy like so many here.
I was raised in Chicago and I'm a city slicker.
But I knew country. Country was a friend of mine. You are not
country.
You're writing on a computer and probably can't even chop wood.

Grand dad put his pickup truck to good use getting his house built and
establishing his farm.
Nowadays it might be easier and cheaper to have a truck drop it off.
Those were different times.
Everything he hauled when I was there could have been put in an
electric if he left us kids at home.
Doniphan was about 20 miles away with nothing in between.

I don't tell anybody what to drive. Suit yourself.
Didn't tell grand dad to get rid of that icebox and buy a refrigerator
either. Maybe the line wouldn't carry the juice.
Only thing powered by electricity was the light bulbs and the radio.
They didn't even get electricity until about 1950.
That damn lib FDR was behind it, spreading that pernicious electricity
all over the country, sapping the precious bodily fluids of America.

This bull**** about the market for electrics is just that.
Bull****.
225,956,060 of 285,230,516 U.S. population live in urban
areas according to the 2000 census.

You can come up with all the reasons you want to say there's no market
for electrics, but fact of the matter is you're just spouting your
personal needs or preferences in a typical commie luddite fashion.

Remind me of my grand dad. Half-crazy and can't let go of the past.

--Vic

>
> > The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without
> > any changes.
> > Ben
>
> References, please?
>
> Everything from the power plant to the driveway outlet, of course...

All references easily google-able and readily available.
Knock yourself out.
Ben

> Okay, that would be a battery with 9 kilowatt-hours total capacity,
> which is kind of small.
>
> >Claimed battery range 40 miles.
>
> Okay, if you're driving for 40 minutes with a 9 kilowatt hours, that
> gives you about 7 KW power, or about 10 horsepower. *That's kind of
> low but it's not impossible.
>

Spec's from the Leaf wiki,
battery capacity 24kw, with up to 90kw output (obviously brief)
I doubt the software allows all 24 kw to be drained.. but thjere is
way more than 7 kw available.
Ben

On Sep 15, 6:45*pm, wrote:
> Some parts of America, that grid is already strung out pretty tight.
> cuhulin

That's true, but most EV's will be charged at night, when almost all
powerplants are 'idling', and powerplants are ineffecient at idle.
Ben

On Sep 16, 4:55*am, Roger Blake > wrote:

> The liberals promoting this nonsense typically live in cities
> and have no knowledge of living in rural areas. *I've lived in
> places where it was an hour's drive to the nearest supermarket!

Wow...
40 miles per charge would work for 3/4's of all drivers.
EV's will probably never be everyone's everything, but I think they
have a future
Ben

> > > Where will the batteries be manufactured?? How will the electricity to
> > > charge these batteries be generated??
>
> > The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without
> > any changes.
> > Ben
>
> Only by assuming EVs use much less energy per km
> than do gasoline powered vehicles, and
> by running the peak capacity plants full time.

TVA currently has 6 GW available at night for 7 cents/kW-hr.


Bret Cahill

> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> >> >> Where will the batteries be manufactured?? How will the electricity to
> >> >> charge these batteries be generated??
>
> >> >The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without
> >> >any changes.
>
> >> Sadly not.
>
> > The immediate problem isn't the grid but getting an affordable EV
> > suitable as a second car for commuting.
>
> > We'll cross the grid bridge when we get to it.
>
> > Bret Cahill
>
> Putting aside the toy car looks, this one from 2004 is interesting...
>
> http://www.evuk.co.uk/news/index.html#jesterlion
>
> http://greenerenergy.eu/cms/index.ph...tpage&Itemid=1
>
> Independantly tested on an approved track it manages 70mph top speed and 204
> mile range ...
>
> Extra urban cycle: 255 km/156 miles
> Urban cycle: 326 km/ 204 miles
> Urban cycle power consumption: 0.121 kWh/km
> Extra urban cycle power consumption: 0.155 kwh/km
> Maximum speed measured during tests: 114 kmh/71 mph
> Useable energy stored in batteries: 39.6 kWh
> Motor: Advanced DC with Regenerative Braking
>
> Quote "I built this prototype for less than £6000"
>
> That's about $9,000.

That doesn't include the 40 kWhr battery.

What's the weight of the vehicle?


Bret Cahill

> The liberals promoting this nonsense typically live in cities
> and have no knowledge of living in rural areas. *I've lived in
> places where it was an hour's drive to the nearest supermarket!

Why does it always turn political at about the 30 post mark?
Like clockwork...

On Sep 16, 4:58*pm, Bret Cahill > wrote:
> > > > Where will the batteries be manufactured?? How will the electricity to
> > > > charge these batteries be generated??
>
> > > The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without
> > > any changes.
> > > Ben
>
> > Only by assuming EVs use much less energy per km
> > than do gasoline powered vehicles, and
> > by running the peak capacity plants full time.
>
> TVA currently has 6 GW available at night for 7 cents/kW-hr.

Well, first, as was indicated in the part you snipped, that
available generation is mostly coal. Oops.

And second, that's the marginal rate at night, not what they'd
charge if demand increased by 6 GW. Want to know what
they'd charge if demand increased that much? Look during
the day when demand is that high. Oops.

Upthread the Nissan Leaf was claimed to have a 100 mile
range on an 8 hour charge, 40 amps at 220 volts. That's
8.8 kW. Suppose that 100 mile range is 50 mph, or 2 hours.
That's a sustained output of about 45 horsepower, not
including efficiency of the rectifier and charging process,
and the efficiency of the battery-electric motor combo on
the car. I'm guessing those would probably knock that down
by about 1/3 in total, but it's pretty much a guess, based on
some very quick googling for efficiencies of such things.
So it's probably only a sustained 30 horsepower or so.
That's a pretty wimpy car, even for just commuting.
My Nissan Versa, not a big car at all, has a 100 hp
engine.

And even at that, the TVA's extra coal generation is only
able to charge up about 680,000 of them. And that
means running those coal plants an extra 8 hours
per day, probably 5 days per week. And some people
would use the "trickle" 20 hour charge because they
don't have 220volt installs in their house or apartment,
meaning the entire grid would be extra loaded pretty
much all of the time.

And if the TVA burned that much extra coal, the air in
Toronto would be brown. Well... More brown.

And 100 miles is probably not even close to most people's
needs for something that requires 8 hours to charge.
I'm going to need at least 300 miles, a much quicker
charge, and a lot more power than 30 hp.

So, to recap:
Only by assuming EVs use much less energy per km
than do gasoline powered vehicles, and
by running the peak capacity plants full time.
Socks

On Sep 16, 3:51*pm, ben91932 > wrote:
> > Okay, that would be a battery with 9 kilowatt-hours total capacity,
> > which is kind of small.
>
> > >Claimed battery range 40 miles.
>
> > Okay, if you're driving for 40 minutes with a 9 kilowatt hours, that
> > gives you about 7 KW power, or about 10 horsepower. *That's kind of
> > low but it's not impossible.
>
> Spec's from the Leaf wiki,
> battery capacity 24kw, with up to 90kw output (obviously brief)
> I doubt the software allows all 24 kw to be drained.. *but thjere is
> way more than 7 kw available.
> Ben

Hybred is the way to go Electric motor,and propane motor is a perfect
marriage. TreBert