Electric Vehicles

Some parts of America, that grid is already strung out pretty tight.
cuhulin

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Vic Smith > wrote:
>>>References, please?
>>>
>>>Everything from the power plant to the driveway outlet, of course...
>>
>>Typical home central air draws 15-20 amps.
>>
>>The GM volt supposedly charges in
>>6 hours at 12 amps
>>8 hours at 8 amps.
>
> Okay, that would be a battery with 9 kilowatt-hours total capacity,
> which is kind of small.
>
>>Claimed battery range 40 miles.
>
> Okay, if you're driving for 40 minutes with a 9 kilowatt hours, that
> gives you about 7 KW power, or about 10 horsepower. That's kind of
> low but it's not impossible.
>
> Still... what good is a car with a 40 mile range?

Very. Do you drive more than 40 miles to work?

"Bret Cahill" > wrote in message
...
>> >> Where will the batteries be manufactured?? How will the electricity to
>> >> charge these batteries be generated??
>>
>> >The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without
>> >any changes.
>>
>> Sadly not.
>
> The immediate problem isn't the grid but getting an affordable EV
> suitable as a second car for commuting.
>
> We'll cross the grid bridge when we get to it.
>
>
> Bret Cahill
>

Putting aside the toy car looks, this one from 2004 is interesting...

http://www.evuk.co.uk/news/index.html#jesterlion

http://greenerenergy.eu/cms/index.ph...tpage&Itemid=1

Independantly tested on an approved track it manages 70mph top speed and 204
mile range ...

Extra urban cycle: 255 km/156 miles
Urban cycle: 326 km/ 204 miles
Urban cycle power consumption: 0.121 kWh/km
Extra urban cycle power consumption: 0.155 kwh/km
Maximum speed measured during tests: 114 kmh/71 mph
Useable energy stored in batteries: 39.6 kWh
Motor: Advanced DC with Regenerative Braking

Quote "I built this prototype for less than £6000"

That's about $9,000.

Cwatters wrote:
> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Vic Smith > wrote:
>>>> References, please?
>>>>
>>>> Everything from the power plant to the driveway outlet, of course...
>>> Typical home central air draws 15-20 amps.
>>>
>>> The GM volt supposedly charges in
>>> 6 hours at 12 amps
>>> 8 hours at 8 amps.
>> Okay, that would be a battery with 9 kilowatt-hours total capacity,
>> which is kind of small.
>>
>>> Claimed battery range 40 miles.
>> Okay, if you're driving for 40 minutes with a 9 kilowatt hours, that
>> gives you about 7 KW power, or about 10 horsepower. That's kind of
>> low but it's not impossible.
>>
>> Still... what good is a car with a 40 mile range?
>
> Very. Do you drive more than 40 miles to work?
>
>

Yes, It's VERY common once you get out of the city. The wife drives 34
miles one way to her job. Going to be a long walk home...

Electric vehicles don't make any sense outside of very limited uses.
Until they get to a range of 200-300 miles per charge and a recharge
time of less than 10 minutes they won't be practical for 90% of the
country. Even then they still will produce as much crap as a
conventional vehicle because the power to charge them has to come from
somewhere. Solar generation produces a LOT of nasty waste while making
the cells, Wind gets blocked by people who don't want the units near
them or in their vision, Coal,Nat.Gas, Oil fired plants just transfer
the smog to other areas. Nobody will even consider nuke plants even
though they are the best way to make power.

--
Steve W.

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article >,
> ben91932 > wrote:
>>> Where will the batteries be manufactured?? How will the electricity to
>>> charge these batteries be generated??
>> The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without
>> any changes.
>
> Sadly not. The existing grid is in pretty lousy shape, all things considered,
> and really can't handle the existing demand all that reliably. Mind you,
> it's not like being in the Phillipines with rolling blackouts, but it's
> not anything like the safety margins we had in the sixties and seventies.

You don't live in California do you? They have had rolling blackouts and
brown outs for a while because they don't have the capacity. Same thing
is starting to hit other areas as people use more electricity and no new
plants are being built.

>
> But, I would say that upgrading the grid and providing more generation
> closer to the points of demand is something that is going to have to happen
> soon if we want to continue the comfortable lives we all lead. And if we
> are doing that, planning for EV demand is just a short step beyond.
> --scott
>

Not likely to happen until people wake up to reality.

--
Steve W.

Bret Cahill wrote:
>>>> Where will the batteries be manufactured?? How will the electricity to
>>>> charge these batteries be generated??
>>> The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without
>>> any changes.
>> Sadly not.
>
> The immediate problem isn't the grid but getting an affordable EV
> suitable as a second car for commuting.
>
> We'll cross the grid bridge when we get to it.
>
>
> Bret Cahill
>
>

And you just stated the catch 22 that is the problem. Nobody wants to
build an EV when there are no places to charge them and nobody want to
build the infrastructure for non-existent vehicles. People won't buy the
vehicles because of both reasons.
It's one of the facts that makes a hybrid the only viable solution for
the EV minded folks.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 2010-09-16, Steve W. > wrote:
> Yes, It's VERY common once you get out of the city. The wife drives 34
> miles one way to her job. Going to be a long walk home...

The liberals promoting this nonsense typically live in cities
and have no knowledge of living in rural areas. I've lived in
places where it was an hour's drive to the nearest supermarket!

--
Roger Blake
(Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled due to spam.)
"0bama snoozed while oil oozed."

On Sep 15, 4:15*pm, ben91932 > wrote:
> > Where will the batteries be manufactured?? How will the electricity to
> > charge these batteries be generated??
>
> The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without
> any changes.
> Ben

Only by assuming EVs use much less energy per km
than do gasoline powered vehicles, and
by running the peak capacity plants full time.

Peak demand is presently handled using extra
generation that is brought on line to match it.
Typical demand peaks in the afternoon, 3PM
to 7PM. This is when people start getting home and
turning on their appliances and AC.

The peaker plants are typically less efficient, more
expensive to run, and much less environmentally
acceptable. For example, in Ontario, they are mostly
coal and methane. This is because those are the
plants that the utilities want to run as little as possible,
so they only run them when demand is highest.
There are even a few diesel engine generators in
the mix, and wonder of wonders, even a few jet engine
powered generators that have, on rare occasions,
been used to meet peak demand.

The result of extra load without change to the grid
will be a huge amount more coal gets burnt. And it
will also mean that the grid is more heavily loaded
at all hours, since some people will charge their
vehicles at any given hour of the day regardless of
the cost. So there will be more brown-outs and black-
outs than previously, though maybe only incrementally.

If EVs ever get to the point of being true replacements
for gasoline powered vehicles, the presumption has to
be they will use similar amounts of energy at similar
efficiencies, when you include the entire generation and
distribution chain. That will require roughly a doubling of
the total generation capacity. Though it may allow for some
increased flexibility with regard to making the net demand
more even.

Don't mistake me though. I'm keen for electric cars.
Just that they will mean significant increased demand
on the grid, and that will require new generation
capacity. Preferably nukes, at least until we work the
bugs out of fusion. Which isn't going to happen for
a while.
Socks

Cwatters > wrote:
>"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>> Still... what good is a car with a 40 mile range?
>
>Very. Do you drive more than 40 miles to work?

I drive more than 40 miles to the grocery store, let alone to work.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In sci.physics Cwatters > wrote:
>
> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Vic Smith > wrote:
>>>>References, please?
>>>>
>>>>Everything from the power plant to the driveway outlet, of course...
>>>
>>>Typical home central air draws 15-20 amps.
>>>
>>>The GM volt supposedly charges in
>>>6 hours at 12 amps
>>>8 hours at 8 amps.
>>
>> Okay, that would be a battery with 9 kilowatt-hours total capacity,
>> which is kind of small.
>>
>>>Claimed battery range 40 miles.
>>
>> Okay, if you're driving for 40 minutes with a 9 kilowatt hours, that
>> gives you about 7 KW power, or about 10 horsepower. That's kind of
>> low but it's not impossible.
>>
>> Still... what good is a car with a 40 mile range?
>
> Very. Do you drive more than 40 miles to work?

Yes, and every job I've had in the last 40 years has been in the range of
35 to 60 miles away.

And the next door neighbor also drives more than 40 miles to work.

However, unless where you work has the equipment and will allow you to
recharge, you would be limited to working less than 20 miles away.

The wife works 30 miles away.

The majority of people do not live in some place like Manhatten.


--
Jim Pennino

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