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Electric Vehicles
The news is that production capacity for lithium ion batteries is
coming on-line. And these plants are partially funded by recent Federal grants. Of course these are batteries for electric vehicles and hybrids. What's the problem ? Well, there's an electric vehicle benchmark and it's the Tesla Roadster. The advantage of the Tesla Roadster is not that it is small or that it only has two seats but the advantage is a vehicle construction type that is both strong and lightweight. The Tesla Roadster has a frame of extruded aluminum in tall cross-sections and then has a fiberglass bodywork over the frame. The car is then strong enough to carry the batteries but the total weight of the vehicle including batteries is very reasonable. The benchmark is that the Tesla Roadster has a range of 245 miles while having a vehicle weight that is only 7.12% more than a traditional vehicle. (In this case the Tesla Roadster weight is compared to an automatic transmission Mazda MX5 which is a similar size vehicle but of unibody construction and with an internal combustion engine.) So the problem is that there is not any electric vehicles on the horizon that meet the benchmark. This is the obvious failure of the electric vehicle. Of course for the Tesla Roadster to set the benchmark that car is then very expensive. Well, the batteries are expensive and the vehicle construction method is expensive. But the failure of the electric vehicle ? Well not exactly because there is a fuel cell vehicle that meets the benchmark. It's the Honda Clarity which is more like in consumer testing rather than in consumer sales but in a few consumer hands. Now the Honda Clarity has a range of 240 miles and a weight that is 8.32% more than a traditional vehicle. (Here the weight of the Honda Clarity is compared to a 4- cylinder Toyota Camry which has similar body and wheelbase dimensions.) Of course a fuel cell vehicle fuels with hydrogen, produces electricity from a chemical reaction and then drives an electric motor. And the hydrogen fueling stations are in locations that have a few fuel cell buses running. For instance Southern California has about a dozen hydrogen stations, Northern California has a few hydrogen stations, Chicago has a few hydrogen stations, NYC has one or two hydrogen stations, and Orlando has a few hydrogen stations. So the final point here is that the Federal government has a battery program but no hydrogen program. |
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Electric Vehicles
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 01:22:04 -0700 (PDT), PolicySpy
> wrote: >The news is that production capacity for lithium ion batteries is >coming on-line. And these plants are partially funded by recent >Federal grants. Of course these are batteries for electric vehicles >and hybrids. What's the problem ? > >Well, there's an electric vehicle benchmark and it's the Tesla >Roadster. The advantage of the Tesla Roadster is not that it is small >or that it only has two seats but the advantage is a vehicle >construction type that is both strong and lightweight. The Tesla >Roadster has a frame of extruded aluminum in tall cross-sections and >then has a fiberglass bodywork over the frame. The car is then strong >enough to carry the batteries but the total weight of the vehicle >including batteries is very reasonable. The benchmark is that the >Tesla Roadster has a range of 245 miles while having a vehicle weight >that is only 7.12% more than a traditional vehicle. (In this case the >Tesla Roadster weight is compared to an automatic transmission Mazda >MX5 which is a similar size vehicle but of unibody construction and >with an internal combustion engine.) > >So the problem is that there is not any electric vehicles on the >horizon that meet the benchmark. This is the obvious failure of the >electric vehicle. Of course for the Tesla Roadster to set the >benchmark that car is then very expensive. Well, the batteries are >expensive and the vehicle construction method is expensive. > >But the failure of the electric vehicle ? Well not exactly because >there is a fuel cell vehicle that meets the benchmark. It's the Honda >Clarity which is more like in consumer testing rather than in consumer >sales but in a few consumer hands. Now the Honda Clarity has a range >of 240 miles and a weight that is 8.32% more than a traditional >vehicle. (Here the weight of the Honda Clarity is compared to a 4- >cylinder Toyota Camry which has similar body and wheelbase >dimensions.) > >Of course a fuel cell vehicle fuels with hydrogen, produces >electricity from a chemical reaction and then drives an electric >motor. And the hydrogen fueling stations are in locations that have a >few fuel cell buses running. For instance Southern California has >about a dozen hydrogen stations, Northern California has a few >hydrogen stations, Chicago has a few hydrogen stations, NYC has one or >two hydrogen stations, and Orlando has a few hydrogen stations. > >So the final point here is that the Federal government has a battery >program but no hydrogen program. Do you know what Henry Ford 1 said about electric cars more than 100 (one-hundred) years ago? Nothing has changed since then. (Unfortunately I have only the German edition, do not want to re-translate) w. |
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Electric Vehicles
> > Where will the batteries be manufactured?? How will the electricity to > charge these batteries be generated?? The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without any changes. Ben |
#4
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Electric Vehicles
On Sep 15, 4:15*pm, ben91932 > wrote:
> > Where will the batteries be manufactured?? How will the electricity to > > charge these batteries be generated?? > > The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without > any changes. > Ben References, please? Everything from the power plant to the driveway outlet, of course... |
#5
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Electric Vehicles
In sci.physics ben91932 > wrote:
> >> >> Where will the batteries be manufactured?? How will the electricity to >> charge these batteries be generated?? > > The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without > any changes. > Ben Maybe if you somehow restrict all charging until after 11 PM, particularly in the summer months. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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Electric Vehicles
In article >,
ben91932 > wrote: > >> Where will the batteries be manufactured?? How will the electricity to >> charge these batteries be generated?? > >The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without >any changes. Sadly not. The existing grid is in pretty lousy shape, all things considered, and really can't handle the existing demand all that reliably. Mind you, it's not like being in the Phillipines with rolling blackouts, but it's not anything like the safety margins we had in the sixties and seventies. But, I would say that upgrading the grid and providing more generation closer to the points of demand is something that is going to have to happen soon if we want to continue the comfortable lives we all lead. And if we are doing that, planning for EV demand is just a short step beyond. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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Electric Vehicles
> >> Where will the batteries be manufactured?? How will the electricity to
> >> charge these batteries be generated?? > > >The existing grid can handle charging 10's of millions of EV's without > >any changes. > > Sadly not. The immediate problem isn't the grid but getting an affordable EV suitable as a second car for commuting. We'll cross the grid bridge when we get to it. Bret Cahill |
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Electric Vehicles
Vic Smith > wrote:
>>References, please? >> >>Everything from the power plant to the driveway outlet, of course... > >Typical home central air draws 15-20 amps. > >The GM volt supposedly charges in >6 hours at 12 amps >8 hours at 8 amps. Okay, that would be a battery with 9 kilowatt-hours total capacity, which is kind of small. >Claimed battery range 40 miles. Okay, if you're driving for 40 minutes with a 9 kilowatt hours, that gives you about 7 KW power, or about 10 horsepower. That's kind of low but it's not impossible. Still... what good is a car with a 40 mile range? >Plugs into any 120v outlet that can take the amp draw without tripping >a breaker. If you want to have an actual practical vehicle with shorter charging time and longer driving time, you're going to have to have a good bit more current. Not an insane amount, mind you, but a good bit more. People drive a lot, that's part of the problem. People drive a whole lot. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
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Electric Vehicles
In sci.physics Scott Dorsey > wrote:
> Vic Smith > wrote: >>>References, please? >>> >>>Everything from the power plant to the driveway outlet, of course... >> >>Typical home central air draws 15-20 amps. >> >>The GM volt supposedly charges in >>6 hours at 12 amps >>8 hours at 8 amps. > > Okay, that would be a battery with 9 kilowatt-hours total capacity, > which is kind of small. > >>Claimed battery range 40 miles. > > Okay, if you're driving for 40 minutes with a 9 kilowatt hours, that > gives you about 7 KW power, or about 10 horsepower. That's kind of > low but it's not impossible. > > Still... what good is a car with a 40 mile range? > >>Plugs into any 120v outlet that can take the amp draw without tripping >>a breaker. > > If you want to have an actual practical vehicle with shorter charging > time and longer driving time, you're going to have to have a good bit > more current. Not an insane amount, mind you, but a good bit more. > > People drive a lot, that's part of the problem. People drive a whole lot. Nope, it isn't a problem, it is a reality of life unless you want to live like a medival goat herder. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#10
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Electric Vehicles
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