Head gasket set brand recommendations & ?'s 89 Cressida head install.

Doc wrote:
> On May 25, 12:21 am, Nick Bourne <"nabourne at tpg.com.au"> wrote:
>
>>> -I feel like I should upgrade my torque wrench from the inexpensive
>>> bar type I got years ago.
>
>
>> If you bar type still pulls correct torque why do you fell it needs
>> replacing.
>
>
> How would I know?

Specialist tool shops that service tools should have a calibration
device that can be used to check it, they usually will do it for free if
you catch them on a good day or for a small fee, say $5, as the check
procedure only takes a couple of minutes.


>
>
>> Also check the block deck for any out of square measurements.
>
>
> How do you do this?

The best way I have found is a good set square with a straight edge and
a set of feeler gauges. just put the straight edge on the surface of the
block and uses the feeler gauges to see if there is a gap or if it
changes. Start be going widthways across the block then lengthways down
the block. Then check across the bores by going diagonally from bolt
hole to bolt hole down the block. Only go across the far corners you
need to make sure the surface is as clean as you can before starting. In
the manual there should be a procedure and clearances for checking the
head, and I use the same for the block deck. The clearance for my 6M
engine was 39 thou.

On Fri, 25 May 2007 09:24:39 +0000, Danny G. wrote:

>
> "Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message
> news:jvt5i.20638$Qz.4446@trndny09...
>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 16:58:41 -0700, Doc wrote:
>>
>>> -Any suggestions on brands? Is whatever comes from Autozone, Discount
>>> Auto, Napa going to work fine? Any brands to definitely avoid?
>>> Apparently the shop that built my engine a couple of years ago used
>>> Victor Reinz.
>>>
>>> -What about new head bolts? Do the sets normally come with bolts? Or
>>> are there better options I should pursue?
>>>
>>> -I feel like I should upgrade my torque wrench from the inexpensive bar
>>> type I got years ago. I see Home Depot has Husky click torque wrenches
>>> for around $70, do you feel it'll do the job? I gather Snap- On's run
>>> around $200. I'm sure they're good but would like to save a few bucks
>>> if possible to do so and get good functionality on a one-off project.
>>>
>>> -I have the shop manual for this Cressida. Should the torqueing order
>>> it shows be fine? In a previous thread, someone said they should be
>>> final torqued to 70 ft/lbs. Anyone disagree with this?
>>>
>>> What would you consider a reasonable cost range for a shop to charge to
>>> disassemble, inspect, do a valve job, resurface and reassemble the
>>> heads on a carry-in basis?
>>>
>>> Any other recommendations/tips will be appreciated. I've installed
>>> heads before but not on aluminum heads.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> HKS Metal headgasket. Google "1989 Supra Headgasket" These last a long
>> time. Also, check the SOGI website. 59ft/lbs appears to be not enough
>> (was spec'd for an asbestos HG)
>>
>>
> I think a metal head gasket requires a special mating surface.
>
> "These last a long time"
> But then again I never thought head gaskets wear out. 8)


Well, yeah...

But, the 7M-GE has a couple of 'congenital' problems (or so I've been told).

First was the improper torque at the factory. They spec'd 59F/# for an
asbestos gasket, and then switched material to a non-asbestos gasket, and
never changed the spec on the floor. So, they got torqued to 59 and failed.

Then, the head "walks" when it gets hot. The front end has a lot more
cooling from the fan and the grille, and the rear is stuffed in there next
to the firewall with poor air flow. So, if you got the 59 F/# torque, when
the head heats unevenly it creates uneven pressure on the gasket and wears
it down. (Of course, I'm talking the Supra; I believe the Cressida has a
more open engine bay. There's an '89 with 85,000 Florida miles here in
town; I'll ask the kid if I can have a look...)

Considering the (actually, minor if handled correctly) problems with this
engine, I would use the metal gasket if I'm going to the trouble of
ripping the head off, and torque to the revised spec. The metal dissipates
the heat more handily and keeps things from rocking.

"Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message news:qYC5i.6$zN5.5@trndny05...
> On Fri, 25 May 2007 09:24:39 +0000, Danny G. wrote:
>
>>
>> "Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message
>> news:jvt5i.20638$Qz.4446@trndny09...
>>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 16:58:41 -0700, Doc wrote:
>>>
>>>> -Any suggestions on brands? Is whatever comes from Autozone, Discount
>>>> Auto, Napa going to work fine? Any brands to definitely avoid?
>>>> Apparently the shop that built my engine a couple of years ago used
>>>> Victor Reinz.
>>>>
>>>> -What about new head bolts? Do the sets normally come with bolts? Or
>>>> are there better options I should pursue?
>>>>
>>>> -I feel like I should upgrade my torque wrench from the inexpensive bar
>>>> type I got years ago. I see Home Depot has Husky click torque wrenches
>>>> for around $70, do you feel it'll do the job? I gather Snap- On's run
>>>> around $200. I'm sure they're good but would like to save a few bucks
>>>> if possible to do so and get good functionality on a one-off project.
>>>>
>>>> -I have the shop manual for this Cressida. Should the torqueing order
>>>> it shows be fine? In a previous thread, someone said they should be
>>>> final torqued to 70 ft/lbs. Anyone disagree with this?
>>>>
>>>> What would you consider a reasonable cost range for a shop to charge to
>>>> disassemble, inspect, do a valve job, resurface and reassemble the
>>>> heads on a carry-in basis?
>>>>
>>>> Any other recommendations/tips will be appreciated. I've installed
>>>> heads before but not on aluminum heads.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> HKS Metal headgasket. Google "1989 Supra Headgasket" These last a long
>>> time. Also, check the SOGI website. 59ft/lbs appears to be not enough
>>> (was spec'd for an asbestos HG)
>>>
>>>
>> I think a metal head gasket requires a special mating surface.
>>
>> "These last a long time"
>> But then again I never thought head gaskets wear out. 8)
>
>
> Well, yeah...
>
> But, the 7M-GE has a couple of 'congenital' problems (or so I've been told).
>
> First was the improper torque at the factory. They spec'd 59F/# for an
> asbestos gasket, and then switched material to a non-asbestos gasket, and
> never changed the spec on the floor. So, they got torqued to 59 and failed.
>
> Then, the head "walks" when it gets hot. The front end has a lot more
> cooling from the fan and the grille, and the rear is stuffed in there next
> to the firewall with poor air flow. So, if you got the 59 F/# torque, when
> the head heats unevenly it creates uneven pressure on the gasket and wears
> it down. (Of course, I'm talking the Supra; I believe the Cressida has a
> more open engine bay. There's an '89 with 85,000 Florida miles here in
> town; I'll ask the kid if I can have a look...)
>
> Considering the (actually, minor if handled correctly) problems with this
> engine, I would use the metal gasket if I'm going to the trouble of
> ripping the head off, and torque to the revised spec. The metal dissipates
> the heat more handily and keeps things from rocking.
>

My Supra's BHG was at the #2 cylinder. But for the life of me I can not
see what caused it.
The engine is not a turbo, nothing else was bad and the head bolt torque
was still correct when I checked during disassembly. The block was flat
and the head measured less than 0.0015 in out.

On top of that the car has never been driven without me in it. The engine has
never missed a beat or gone above normal temperature.

waaaaaaaaaa
Dan

oh ya, what I meant about the metal gasket was something
like the lapping in this link. http://suprasonic.org/HKS/hksgaskets.html

On Fri, 25 May 2007 16:57:46 +0000, Danny G. wrote:

>
> "Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message news:qYC5i.6$zN5.5@trndny05...
>> On Fri, 25 May 2007 09:24:39 +0000, Danny G. wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message
>>> news:jvt5i.20638$Qz.4446@trndny09...
>>>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 16:58:41 -0700, Doc wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> -Any suggestions on brands? Is whatever comes from Autozone, Discount
>>>>> Auto, Napa going to work fine? Any brands to definitely avoid?
>>>>> Apparently the shop that built my engine a couple of years ago used
>>>>> Victor Reinz.
>>>>>
>>>>> -What about new head bolts? Do the sets normally come with bolts? Or
>>>>> are there better options I should pursue?
>>>>>
>>>>> -I feel like I should upgrade my torque wrench from the inexpensive bar
>>>>> type I got years ago. I see Home Depot has Husky click torque wrenches
>>>>> for around $70, do you feel it'll do the job? I gather Snap- On's run
>>>>> around $200. I'm sure they're good but would like to save a few bucks
>>>>> if possible to do so and get good functionality on a one-off project.
>>>>>
>>>>> -I have the shop manual for this Cressida. Should the torqueing order
>>>>> it shows be fine? In a previous thread, someone said they should be
>>>>> final torqued to 70 ft/lbs. Anyone disagree with this?
>>>>>
>>>>> What would you consider a reasonable cost range for a shop to charge to
>>>>> disassemble, inspect, do a valve job, resurface and reassemble the
>>>>> heads on a carry-in basis?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any other recommendations/tips will be appreciated. I've installed
>>>>> heads before but not on aluminum heads.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> HKS Metal headgasket. Google "1989 Supra Headgasket" These last a long
>>>> time. Also, check the SOGI website. 59ft/lbs appears to be not enough
>>>> (was spec'd for an asbestos HG)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think a metal head gasket requires a special mating surface.
>>>
>>> "These last a long time"
>>> But then again I never thought head gaskets wear out. 8)
>>
>>
>> Well, yeah...
>>
>> But, the 7M-GE has a couple of 'congenital' problems (or so I've been told).
>>
>> First was the improper torque at the factory. They spec'd 59F/# for an
>> asbestos gasket, and then switched material to a non-asbestos gasket, and
>> never changed the spec on the floor. So, they got torqued to 59 and failed.
>>
>> Then, the head "walks" when it gets hot. The front end has a lot more
>> cooling from the fan and the grille, and the rear is stuffed in there next
>> to the firewall with poor air flow. So, if you got the 59 F/# torque, when
>> the head heats unevenly it creates uneven pressure on the gasket and wears
>> it down. (Of course, I'm talking the Supra; I believe the Cressida has a
>> more open engine bay. There's an '89 with 85,000 Florida miles here in
>> town; I'll ask the kid if I can have a look...)
>>
>> Considering the (actually, minor if handled correctly) problems with this
>> engine, I would use the metal gasket if I'm going to the trouble of
>> ripping the head off, and torque to the revised spec. The metal dissipates
>> the heat more handily and keeps things from rocking.
>>
>
> My Supra's BHG was at the #2 cylinder. But for the life of me I can not
> see what caused it.
> The engine is not a turbo, nothing else was bad and the head bolt torque
> was still correct when I checked during disassembly. The block was flat
> and the head measured less than 0.0015 in out.
>
> On top of that the car has never been driven without me in it. The engine has
> never missed a beat or gone above normal temperature.
>
> waaaaaaaaaa
> Dan
>
> oh ya, what I meant about the metal gasket was something
> like the lapping in this link. http://suprasonic.org/HKS/hksgaskets.html


Lapping *ON* the engine?!?! What do you do, remove the head, install the
lapping tool and drive 1500 miles?! That's *MY* kind of lapping!

On 24 May 2007 16:58:41 -0700, Doc > wrote:

>-Any suggestions on brands? Is whatever comes from Autozone, Discount
>Auto, Napa going to work fine? Any brands to definitely avoid?
>Apparently the shop that built my engine a couple of years ago used
>Victor Reinz.

Those would have come from NAPA, very good gaskets for the money...

>-What about new head bolts? Do the sets normally come with bolts? Or
>are there better options I should pursue?

I don't remember if they're TTY bolts, but replacing them is a good
idea...

>-I feel like I should upgrade my torque wrench from the inexpensive
>bar type I got years ago. I see Home Depot has Husky click torque
>wrenches for around $70, do you feel it'll do the job? I gather Snap-
>On's run around $200. I'm sure they're good but would like to save a
>few bucks if possible to do so and get good functionality on a one-off
>project.

That is entirely up to you, do you trust your old torque wrench? It
may still be as accurate as the new Husky...

>-I have the shop manual for this Cressida. Should the torqueing order
>it shows be fine? In a previous thread, someone said they should be
>final torqued to 70 ft/lbs. Anyone disagree with this?

Is your manual that says 70 ft/lbs, is the manual a Factory Service
Manual, or your typical Haynes Comic? I like FSMs, but then again,
I'm anal.

SteveL

On May 25, 5:54 pm, wrote:
> is the manual a Factory Service
> Manual, or your typical Haynes Comic? I like FSMs, but then again,
> I'm anal.


Pretty sure it's factory.

1989 Toyota Repair Manual
For USA & Canada
Pub. No. RM117U
Toyota Motor Corporation

On Thu, 24 May 2007 16:58:41 -0700, Doc wrote:

> -Any suggestions on brands? Is whatever comes from Autozone, Discount
> Auto, Napa going to work fine? Any brands to definitely avoid? Apparently
> the shop that built my engine a couple of years ago used Victor Reinz.
>
> -What about new head bolts? Do the sets normally come with bolts? Or are
> there better options I should pursue?
>
> -I feel like I should upgrade my torque wrench from the inexpensive bar
> type I got years ago. I see Home Depot has Husky click torque wrenches for
> around $70, do you feel it'll do the job? I gather Snap- On's run around
> $200. I'm sure they're good but would like to save a few bucks if possible
> to do so and get good functionality on a one-off project.
>
> -I have the shop manual for this Cressida. Should the torqueing order it
> shows be fine? In a previous thread, someone said they should be final
> torqued to 70 ft/lbs. Anyone disagree with this?
>
> What would you consider a reasonable cost range for a shop to charge to
> disassemble, inspect, do a valve job, resurface and reassemble the heads
> on a carry-in basis?
>
> Any other recommendations/tips will be appreciated. I've installed heads
> before but not on aluminum heads.
>
> Thanks.


From the Supras BBS:

My 'gasket set' turned out to be a complete overhaul set, so it has abunch of o rings, and all
of the valve stem seals and things that I was thinking that I might do as well. I guess that
explains why it cost more than I thought it would, besides typical Toyota Parts counter
pricing.

My ARP head bolt set turned out to be a stud set. I guess I'll just have to settle for ARP
studs instead of bolts. (Gee, tough luck, huh?)

I'm just going to put in a Toyota OEM head gasket. I ran out of budget before getting to an
HKS head gasket. I figure though that the OEM gasket should be fine with adequate torque.
Also, since I'm not machining the head or block (Well, not PLANNING to) I figure the OEM
gasket might have a better chance at sealing with whatever minor imperfections might be
present. If needed though, I have clients with machine shops, and I might be able to ask a
favor...
___________________________

The "stud set" refers to the items that a lot of people with 7M-GEs use
instead of bolts. You insert the studs and use nuts to hold the head on. I
guess they're reusable with new nuts. Frankly, if I'm going to all that
trouble, I'm gonna try to make sure it's done right the first time, and
just use bolts (the bolts are $6-9 each depending where you get them...)

"Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message news:lhN5i.477$zN5.242@trndny05...
> On Thu, 24 May 2007 16:58:41 -0700, Doc wrote:
>
>> -Any suggestions on brands? Is whatever comes from Autozone, Discount
>> Auto, Napa going to work fine? Any brands to definitely avoid? Apparently
>> the shop that built my engine a couple of years ago used Victor Reinz.
>>
>> -What about new head bolts? Do the sets normally come with bolts? Or are
>> there better options I should pursue?
>>
>> -I feel like I should upgrade my torque wrench from the inexpensive bar
>> type I got years ago. I see Home Depot has Husky click torque wrenches for
>> around $70, do you feel it'll do the job? I gather Snap- On's run around
>> $200. I'm sure they're good but would like to save a few bucks if possible
>> to do so and get good functionality on a one-off project.
>>
>> -I have the shop manual for this Cressida. Should the torqueing order it
>> shows be fine? In a previous thread, someone said they should be final
>> torqued to 70 ft/lbs. Anyone disagree with this?
>>
>> What would you consider a reasonable cost range for a shop to charge to
>> disassemble, inspect, do a valve job, resurface and reassemble the heads
>> on a carry-in basis?
>>
>> Any other recommendations/tips will be appreciated. I've installed heads
>> before but not on aluminum heads.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>
> From the Supras BBS:
>
> My 'gasket set' turned out to be a complete overhaul set, so it has abunch of o rings, and all
> of the valve stem seals and things that I was thinking that I might do as well. I guess that
> explains why it cost more than I thought it would, besides typical Toyota Parts counter
> pricing.
>
> My ARP head bolt set turned out to be a stud set. I guess I'll just have to settle for ARP
> studs instead of bolts. (Gee, tough luck, huh?)
>
> I'm just going to put in a Toyota OEM head gasket. I ran out of budget before getting to an
> HKS head gasket. I figure though that the OEM gasket should be fine with adequate torque.
> Also, since I'm not machining the head or block (Well, not PLANNING to) I figure the OEM
> gasket might have a better chance at sealing with whatever minor imperfections might be
> present. If needed though, I have clients with machine shops, and I might be able to ask a
> favor...
> ___________________________
>
> The "stud set" refers to the items that a lot of people with 7M-GEs use
> instead of bolts. You insert the studs and use nuts to hold the head on. I
> guess they're reusable with new nuts. Frankly, if I'm going to all that
> trouble, I'm gonna try to make sure it's done right the first time, and
> just use bolts (the bolts are $6-9 each depending where you get them...)
>


Those are for the turbo engines with 2x or 3x more power than stock.

Danny G. wrote:
> "Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message news:lhN5i.477$zN5.242@trndny05...
>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 16:58:41 -0700, Doc wrote:
>>
>>> -Any suggestions on brands? Is whatever comes from Autozone, Discount
>>> Auto, Napa going to work fine? Any brands to definitely avoid? Apparently
>>> the shop that built my engine a couple of years ago used Victor Reinz.
>>>
>>> -What about new head bolts? Do the sets normally come with bolts? Or are
>>> there better options I should pursue?
>>>
>>> -I feel like I should upgrade my torque wrench from the inexpensive bar
>>> type I got years ago. I see Home Depot has Husky click torque wrenches for
>>> around $70, do you feel it'll do the job? I gather Snap- On's run around
>>> $200. I'm sure they're good but would like to save a few bucks if possible
>>> to do so and get good functionality on a one-off project.
>>>
>>> -I have the shop manual for this Cressida. Should the torqueing order it
>>> shows be fine? In a previous thread, someone said they should be final
>>> torqued to 70 ft/lbs. Anyone disagree with this?
>>>
>>> What would you consider a reasonable cost range for a shop to charge to
>>> disassemble, inspect, do a valve job, resurface and reassemble the heads
>>> on a carry-in basis?
>>>
>>> Any other recommendations/tips will be appreciated. I've installed heads
>>> before but not on aluminum heads.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> From the Supras BBS:
>>
>> My 'gasket set' turned out to be a complete overhaul set, so it has abunch of o rings, and all
>> of the valve stem seals and things that I was thinking that I might do as well. I guess that
>> explains why it cost more than I thought it would, besides typical Toyota Parts counter
>> pricing.
>>
>> My ARP head bolt set turned out to be a stud set. I guess I'll just have to settle for ARP
>> studs instead of bolts. (Gee, tough luck, huh?)
>>
>> I'm just going to put in a Toyota OEM head gasket. I ran out of budget before getting to an
>> HKS head gasket. I figure though that the OEM gasket should be fine with adequate torque.
>> Also, since I'm not machining the head or block (Well, not PLANNING to) I figure the OEM
>> gasket might have a better chance at sealing with whatever minor imperfections might be
>> present. If needed though, I have clients with machine shops, and I might be able to ask a
>> favor...
>> ___________________________
>>
>> The "stud set" refers to the items that a lot of people with 7M-GEs use
>> instead of bolts. You insert the studs and use nuts to hold the head on. I
>> guess they're reusable with new nuts. Frankly, if I'm going to all that
>> trouble, I'm gonna try to make sure it's done right the first time, and
>> just use bolts (the bolts are $6-9 each depending where you get them...)
>>
>
>
> Those are for the turbo engines with 2x or 3x more power than stock.
>
>
Well the head shouldn't walk then.