Factors to consider when ordering Accord Hybrid?

Craig wrote:
> Hi Folks:
>
> This is my first post here. I am considering ordering the '05 Accord
> Hybrid. Some dealerships here in San Diego are taking orders on a
> waiting list with a refundable $500 deposit. I have never pre-ordered
> a car before like this. Are there any factors you would recommend I
> consider in doing this?
>
> One of the things I am mulling over is wondering which options I
want.
> I am assuming that I will need to have all of these "finalized" at
the
> time I order since there won't necessarily be any more Accord Hybrids
> available for some time if I decide I don't want a particular option
> that came with the particular Hybrid I ordered. But "finalizing" this
> is made more difficult bc I've been told the new catelog for optional
> features for the Hybrid Accord isn't yet available. Any suggestions?
>
> thanks,
> Craig

Craig wrote:
> Hi Folks:
>
> This is my first post here. I am considering ordering the '05 Accord
> Hybrid. Some dealerships here in San Diego are taking orders on a
> waiting list with a refundable $500 deposit. I have never pre-ordered
> a car before like this. Are there any factors you would recommend I
> consider in doing this?
>
> One of the things I am mulling over is wondering which options I
want.
> I am assuming that I will need to have all of these "finalized" at
the
> time I order since there won't necessarily be any more Accord Hybrids
> available for some time if I decide I don't want a particular option
> that came with the particular Hybrid I ordered. But "finalizing" this
> is made more difficult bc I've been told the new catelog for optional
> features for the Hybrid Accord isn't yet available. Any suggestions?
>
> thanks,
> Craig

I just got an Accord Hybrid from Perry Motors Mark Medora in Bishop.
What a great experience and NO markup and no BS! The drive to LA
yielded 31.5 MPG and the XM and Sat Nav with voice control performed
flawlessly right off the bat.
When you get the Nav you get it all, leather, heated seats, XM, etc. so
the decision is very easy.
I feel like I am driving a BMW 5 series that has the potential to get
37 mpg. Around town I have been getting a steady 30.
By the by Mark will ship the car to you for free!! Perry Motors Inc
(760) 872-4141

The decision is pretty easy. You order the Navigation system, or you
don't. That's it. If you are talking about other options like trunk
liners, mud flaps, etc., they are all dealer installed so you can do
that any time after you get the car. Get the Navigation system. I
love it.

Dick

On 1 Jan 2005 07:30:12 -0800, "stillsman" > wrote:

>
>Craig wrote:
>> Hi Folks:
>>
>> This is my first post here. I am considering ordering the '05 Accord
>> Hybrid. Some dealerships here in San Diego are taking orders on a
>> waiting list with a refundable $500 deposit. I have never pre-ordered
>> a car before like this. Are there any factors you would recommend I
>> consider in doing this?
>>
>> One of the things I am mulling over is wondering which options I
>want.
>> I am assuming that I will need to have all of these "finalized" at
>the
>> time I order since there won't necessarily be any more Accord Hybrids
>> available for some time if I decide I don't want a particular option
>> that came with the particular Hybrid I ordered. But "finalizing" this
>> is made more difficult bc I've been told the new catelog for optional
>> features for the Hybrid Accord isn't yet available. Any suggestions?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Craig

"stillsman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> But "finalizing" this
>> is made more difficult bc I've been told the new catelog for optional
>> features for the Hybrid Accord isn't yet available. Any suggestions?
>>

Personally I would not jump on this so fast. There is a very high
probability of these vehicles developing problems with their new systems.
One of the many big questions is how many charge-discharge cycles the
battery packs are going to be good for and what the cost of replacing the
battery packs is going to be. Anyone who has owned a laptop computer and
used is on battery power regularly should know that replacement battery
packs can be very costly.

I for one would not be an early adopter of this technology, especially on a
new application.

John

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 05:06:12 GMT, "John Horner" >
wrote:

>
>"stillsman" > wrote in message
roups.com...
>> But "finalizing" this
>>> is made more difficult bc I've been told the new catelog for optional
>>> features for the Hybrid Accord isn't yet available. Any suggestions?
>>>
>
>Personally I would not jump on this so fast. There is a very high
>probability of these vehicles developing problems with their new systems.
>One of the many big questions is how many charge-discharge cycles the
>battery packs are going to be good for and what the cost of replacing the
>battery packs is going to be. Anyone who has owned a laptop computer and
>used is on battery power regularly should know that replacement battery
>packs can be very costly.
>
>I for one would not be an early adopter of this technology, especially on a
>new application.
>
>John

I don't think there is much to worry about. The hybrid Accord is
unlike any other hybrid. It takes the standard V-6 (modified) then
adds a very thin electric motor between the engine and transmission to
assist the gasoline engine when it is called for (IMA). It's only
15 horsepower. The nickle-metal hydride battery pack has an
8-year/80,000 mile warranty. In the meantime, the gasoline engine
runs on 3 or 6 cylinders as the load requires. The Accord never runs
on just the electric motor like other hybrids. However, it does turn
completely off at a stop sign like a golf cart. When you step on the
gas the IMA restarts the V-6 and off you go. If I could afford one I
would order it tomorrow.

Dick

Dick <LeadWinger> wrote:
> I don't think there is much to worry about. The hybrid Accord is
> unlike any other hybrid.

It is exactly like the other Honda hybrids, and unlike the Toyota and Ford
Hybrids.

> adds a very thin electric motor between the engine and transmission to
> assist the gasoline engine when it is called for (IMA). It's only
> 15 horsepower.

The Honda Civic and Honda Insight have the tiny electric motor
IMA sandwich. It's 13HP in the Civic. I think it's 10 in the Insight.

> In the meantime, the gasoline engine
> runs on 3 or 6 cylinders as the load requires. The Accord never runs
> on just the electric motor like other hybrids.

The Civic runs on one cylinder during deceleration. The gas engine is
running whenever you are moving in the Hondas. It runs most of the time in
my Ford, but not always.

> The nickle-metal hydride battery pack has an
> 8-year/80,000 mile warranty.

My 2003 Civic Hybrid has a 8/80 on the battery. My 2005 Ford Hybrid has
10/150 on the batteries and 8/100 on other Hybrid components, including
the CVT transmission. (California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New
Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, or Vermont.)

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 06:08:17 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

>Dick <LeadWinger> wrote:
>> I don't think there is much to worry about. The hybrid Accord is
>> unlike any other hybrid.
>
>It is exactly like the other Honda hybrids, and unlike the Toyota and Ford
>Hybrids.

I stand corrected. I thought the Civic and Insight were like the
Prius. An even stronger argument for not being concerned about the
technology.

>> adds a very thin electric motor between the engine and transmission to
>> assist the gasoline engine when it is called for (IMA). It's only
>> 15 horsepower.
>
>The Honda Civic and Honda Insight have the tiny electric motor
>IMA sandwich. It's 13HP in the Civic. I think it's 10 in the Insight.

It's now 13.4 in the Civic, and 13 or 14 in the Insight depending on
the transmission. Interesting that, even with the engine running all
the time, the Insight now has the best EPA mileage of all the hybrids
at 66 mpg.

Dick <LeadWinger> wrote:
> the transmission. Interesting that, even with the engine running all
> the time, the Insight now has the best EPA mileage of all the hybrids
> at 66 mpg.

The Insight is almost unusably tiny.

The Toyota Prius is most efficient in moving pounds in the EPA Highway test.
The Honda Insight weighs 1850 pounds 66mpg 3.56l/100km 519lbs/l/100km
My Civic Hybrid weighs 2732 pounds 48mpg 4.89l/100km 558lbs/l/100km
A Toyota Prius weighs 2890 pounds 51mpg 4.60l/100km 628lbs/l/100km
My Escape Hybrid weighs 3839 pounds 29mpg 8.10l/100km 473lbs/l/100km

I don't know if the Prius/Escape engines shut off during the EPA highway
test. I find that the Escape shuts off coming downhill at freeway speeds.

EPA City:
The Honda Insight weighs 1850 pounds 60mpg 3.91l/100km 473lbs/l/100km
My Civic Hybrid weighs 2732 pounds 47mpg 5.00l/100km 546lbs/l/100km
A Toyota Prius weighs 2890 pounds 60mpg 3.91l/100km 739lbs/l/100km
My Escape Hybrid weighs 3839 pounds 33mpg 7.12l/100km 539lbs/l/100km

Here, the Prius really shows off the electric-only mode.
I read that the California "AT-PZEV" test had to be respecified to avoid
the Prius doing the entire 10 mile loop without starting the engine.

The "full Hybrid phase two" will probably become available after the
hybrids are accepted by mainstream America. Currently, one of the hot
features is that you never plug in a hybrid. The next generation will have
much larger batteries and an electric-only range that will be augmented by
starting the gas engine much later than the current designs. Some of the
phase 2 engines would only run for a few seconds on initial startup every
day, and then the engines would shut down, not to be used again during the
day unless the batteries were depleted before the nightly recharge from the
wall.


--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

I trust the engine mod to be reliable. In fact, I'll bet every VTEC V6
Honda makes will adopt this pretty quickly.

Now, the real question, besides cost, is, do you want a Honda that:
has worse handling (possibly a revised front-end setup as well as
electric power steering); two cubic feet less trunk space (it was
already too small); a seatback that doesn't lay down; two (2!) a/c
compressors to fail instead of one (the smaller one is electric); a
cute little spoiler; that's really fast off the line? IMHO, the
trade-off is not worth it at less than $4.00 a gallon or so.

JM