uneven tire wear

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:14:56 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

>You also need to learn how to check the toe by feeling the tire. It's
>simple and only takes a few seconds to do. Why have you not learned to
>do this?

Because it's impossible?

On 7/14/2014 4:16 PM, Bill Vanek wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:14:56 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>> You also need to learn how to check the toe by feeling the tire. It's
>> simple and only takes a few seconds to do. Why have you not learned to
>> do this?
>
> Because it's impossible?
>

It's not impossible simply because you don't know how to do it.

On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 00:46:46 -0400, "Steve W." >
wrote:

>Bill Vanek wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:14:56 -1000, dsi1
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> You also need to learn how to check the toe by feeling the tire. It's
>>> simple and only takes a few seconds to do. Why have you not learned to
>>> do this?
>>
>> Because it's impossible?
>
>Actually it's quite easy to do. Run your hand over the tread and looking
>at it can tell a LOT about suspension problems.
>Toe causes scrubbing in a diagonal direction across the tread, Shows up
>as feather edged tread blocks. If severe enough it will show as outer
>edge wear with feather edging, similar to excess camber.

I agree completely with what you're saying, but that is not what I
call "checking the toe". I don't care how good your eyes are, or how
sensitive your hands are, you are not going to tell me the toe
readings, other than in or out. And you're not going to tell me
anything at all if they're new, rotated, or otherwise swapped tires.
And regardless of what you do see, you still need to check all the
parts, and then you need alignment equipment. Reading tires can tell
you only that there is a problem, but you need proper equipment to
find out exactly what the problem is, in almost all cases.

But you know all that. dsi1 does not seem to.

On 7/14/2014 8:02 PM, Bill Vanek wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 00:46:46 -0400, "Steve W." >
> wrote:
>
>> Bill Vanek wrote:
>>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:14:56 -1000, dsi1
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> You also need to learn how to check the toe by feeling the tire. It's
>>>> simple and only takes a few seconds to do. Why have you not learned to
>>>> do this?
>>>
>>> Because it's impossible?
>>
>> Actually it's quite easy to do. Run your hand over the tread and looking
>> at it can tell a LOT about suspension problems.
>> Toe causes scrubbing in a diagonal direction across the tread, Shows up
>> as feather edged tread blocks. If severe enough it will show as outer
>> edge wear with feather edging, similar to excess camber.
>
> I agree completely with what you're saying, but that is not what I
> call "checking the toe". I don't care how good your eyes are, or how
> sensitive your hands are, you are not going to tell me the toe
> readings, other than in or out. And you're not going to tell me
> anything at all if they're new, rotated, or otherwise swapped tires.
> And regardless of what you do see, you still need to check all the
> parts, and then you need alignment equipment. Reading tires can tell
> you only that there is a problem, but you need proper equipment to
> find out exactly what the problem is, in almost all cases.
>
> But you know all that. dsi1 does not seem to.
>

Keep on speculating about what this problem could be. This problem is
simple to diagnose but you have to proceed in a logical manner. First
rule out a worn bearing. Then make sure the problem is not caused by a
camber adjusting bolt.

The toe-in thing is a complete red herring. Some of you guys seem
fixated on toe-in. It might be a problem but it's not THE problem. Take
care of the camber issue first. If you think that the first check for an
alignment problem is to use specialized equipment instead of reading the
tires, then all this must be rocket science to you.

On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 00:35:39 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

>On 7/14/2014 8:02 PM, Bill Vanek wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 00:46:46 -0400, "Steve W." >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill Vanek wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:14:56 -1000, dsi1
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You also need to learn how to check the toe by feeling the tire. It's
>>>>> simple and only takes a few seconds to do. Why have you not learned to
>>>>> do this?
>>>>
>>>> Because it's impossible?
>>>
>>> Actually it's quite easy to do. Run your hand over the tread and looking
>>> at it can tell a LOT about suspension problems.
>>> Toe causes scrubbing in a diagonal direction across the tread, Shows up
>>> as feather edged tread blocks. If severe enough it will show as outer
>>> edge wear with feather edging, similar to excess camber.
>>
>> I agree completely with what you're saying, but that is not what I
>> call "checking the toe". I don't care how good your eyes are, or how
>> sensitive your hands are, you are not going to tell me the toe
>> readings, other than in or out. And you're not going to tell me
>> anything at all if they're new, rotated, or otherwise swapped tires.
>> And regardless of what you do see, you still need to check all the
>> parts, and then you need alignment equipment. Reading tires can tell
>> you only that there is a problem, but you need proper equipment to
>> find out exactly what the problem is, in almost all cases.
>>
>> But you know all that. dsi1 does not seem to.
>>
>
>Keep on speculating about what this problem could be. This problem is
>simple to diagnose but you have to proceed in a logical manner. First
>rule out a worn bearing. Then make sure the problem is not caused by a
>camber adjusting bolt.

I am not the one speculating. There is only one way to find the real
problem, and that is with proper equipment. I have changed hundreds of
control arms, struts, and other suspension parts, and I aligned the
vehicles after every repair. The alignment was never even close after
any repair. It doesn't matter if the mounting holes are slotted - the
parts are never identical, although control arms can be pretty close.
The OP replaced control arms and struts. It needs to go on an
alignment machine.

>The toe-in thing is a complete red herring. Some of you guys seem
>fixated on toe-in. It might be a problem but it's not THE problem. Take
>care of the camber issue first. If you think that the first check for an
>alignment problem is to use specialized equipment instead of reading the
>tires, then all this must be rocket science to you.

This is absurd. The first check is to inspect for bad suspension and
steering parts. The next step is the alignment machine. What on earth
is the point of reading the tires? If you read the tires, and decide
it's camber, then what? Align it by eye? What about caster? Same
thing? Toe? How about toe on turns? Or do you think you can always see
a bent knuckle, even with no reason to suspect one?

On 7/15/2014 4:09 AM, Bill Vanek wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 00:35:39 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>> On 7/14/2014 8:02 PM, Bill Vanek wrote:
>>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 00:46:46 -0400, "Steve W." >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill Vanek wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:14:56 -1000, dsi1
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You also need to learn how to check the toe by feeling the tire. It's
>>>>>> simple and only takes a few seconds to do. Why have you not learned to
>>>>>> do this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because it's impossible?
>>>>
>>>> Actually it's quite easy to do. Run your hand over the tread and looking
>>>> at it can tell a LOT about suspension problems.
>>>> Toe causes scrubbing in a diagonal direction across the tread, Shows up
>>>> as feather edged tread blocks. If severe enough it will show as outer
>>>> edge wear with feather edging, similar to excess camber.
>>>
>>> I agree completely with what you're saying, but that is not what I
>>> call "checking the toe". I don't care how good your eyes are, or how
>>> sensitive your hands are, you are not going to tell me the toe
>>> readings, other than in or out. And you're not going to tell me
>>> anything at all if they're new, rotated, or otherwise swapped tires.
>>> And regardless of what you do see, you still need to check all the
>>> parts, and then you need alignment equipment. Reading tires can tell
>>> you only that there is a problem, but you need proper equipment to
>>> find out exactly what the problem is, in almost all cases.
>>>
>>> But you know all that. dsi1 does not seem to.
>>>
>>
>> Keep on speculating about what this problem could be. This problem is
>> simple to diagnose but you have to proceed in a logical manner. First
>> rule out a worn bearing. Then make sure the problem is not caused by a
>> camber adjusting bolt.
>
> I am not the one speculating. There is only one way to find the real
> problem, and that is with proper equipment. I have changed hundreds of
> control arms, struts, and other suspension parts, and I aligned the
> vehicles after every repair. The alignment was never even close after
> any repair. It doesn't matter if the mounting holes are slotted - the
> parts are never identical, although control arms can be pretty close.
> The OP replaced control arms and struts. It needs to go on an
> alignment machine.
>
>> The toe-in thing is a complete red herring. Some of you guys seem
>> fixated on toe-in. It might be a problem but it's not THE problem. Take
>> care of the camber issue first. If you think that the first check for an
>> alignment problem is to use specialized equipment instead of reading the
>> tires, then all this must be rocket science to you.
>
> This is absurd. The first check is to inspect for bad suspension and
> steering parts. The next step is the alignment machine. What on earth
> is the point of reading the tires? If you read the tires, and decide
> it's camber, then what? Align it by eye? What about caster? Same
> thing? Toe? How about toe on turns? Or do you think you can always see
> a bent knuckle, even with no reason to suspect one?
>

That's fine with me. You probably need to focus your attention on the OP
who seems resistant to that idea instead of implying that I believe I
can divine alignment numbers simply by looking at and feeling a tire.

On Sunday, July 13, 2014 at 1:01:19 PM UTC-5, Bill Vanek wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2014 12:55:59 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
> >(follow-up, by OP)
> >On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 09:53:23 -0400, George > wrote:
> >
> >>'04 Cavalier. LF tire is wearing on the inside edge. RF is not. Other
> >>than that, both have good tread. Car does not pull. There is some
> >>'road noise' (tires or FWB, IMO) on the highway, which is noticeably
> >>more pronounced on left turn effort. The car does not have a noticeable
> >>list.
> >>
> >>Both struts and control arms have been replaced within the last 30K
> >>miles. This (left) bearing/hub assembly was replaced ~30K miles ago. I
> >>don't feel any play in it. Since the problem is only on one side, I'm
> >>thinking it's not a toe problem.
> >>
> >>Any thoughts would be appreciated.
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >
> >A little more detail:
> >- I replaced the control arms about 2 months ago.
> > If the tread wear was already happening, I should have seen it then.
> > I do miss things, but it's kind of obvious.
> > ... So, there's a good chance it started with the control arms.
> >
> >- I just checked the camber, at least roughly - parked on a level
> > surface, and put a level across the rim. It looks right: both
> > wheels were plumb, within less than a degree.
> >
> >I suspect there's a problem with my control arm job. But, it's not like
> >there's any adjustability the just 2 bushing bolts, the ball joint,
> >and the stabilizer link. I've gone back over it, and things are tight.
> >I'll re-check, but I don't think expect much.
> >
> >AFAIK, if it was a toe problem, it both wheels would be worn. So, the
> >big question: is there any way, other than camber, to have just one tire
> >wearing?
> >
> >Thanks again.
>
> Why are you bothering with all of this, instead of just having the
> alignment thoroughly checked by a reputable shop? Once you know which
> measurement is off, it's a lot easier to determine the cause. Right
> now, you're making a science project out of a simple problem. If you
> don't trust the alignment shop to do the diagnosis and repairs, then
> get a printout, and post all of the readings here.

He was not bothering! We all here learn from other's experience! Mother****er!