What I don't like about my "new" MSM.

Frank Berger wrote:

> I looked them up. I like them well enough. What tires do you have on them.
> I have Falken Azeni 615s. 215/45/17, IIRC.

Right now, there is a set of worn-out tires on it, and I plan to replace
them with the Bridgestone RE-11's if I keep the car and/or the wheels.
The tire size 215/40/16, but I plan on going with a 225/50/16 if/when I
replace the tires.

BTW, the Falken Azeni has fantastic grip, but it is known as a pretty
harsh-riding tire even amongst the people that like them. Lots of
sidewall stiffness at the expense of comfort.

You would probably see a big comfort difference switching to something
like the Toyo T-1, or presumably, the Bridgestone RE-11 as well, even
with your current wheel size and weight.
Going with a 50 profile instead of the 45 might help a little too. My
guess is that changing the tires would make a bigger difference than
losing a few pounds of wheel weight, though doing both would be great.

Let us know what you do!

Pat

pws wrote:
> Frank Berger wrote:
>
>> I looked them up. I like them well enough. What tires do you have
>> on them. I have Falken Azeni 615s. 215/45/17, IIRC.
>
> Right now, there is a set of worn-out tires on it, and I plan to
> replace them with the Bridgestone RE-11's if I keep the car and/or
> the wheels. The tire size 215/40/16, but I plan on going with a
> 225/50/16 if/when I replace the tires.
>
> BTW, the Falken Azeni has fantastic grip, but it is known as a pretty
> harsh-riding tire even amongst the people that like them. Lots of
> sidewall stiffness at the expense of comfort.
>
> You would probably see a big comfort difference switching to something
> like the Toyo T-1, or presumably, the Bridgestone RE-11 as well, even
> with your current wheel size and weight.
> Going with a 50 profile instead of the 45 might help a little too. My
> guess is that changing the tires would make a bigger difference than
> losing a few pounds of wheel weight, though doing both would be great.
>
> Let us know what you do!
>
> Pat

Again, I was thinking that just downsizing to 16" and putting more rubber
between me and the road would soften the ride, aside from the question of
what tire to get. I didn't know the Azenis were known for harshness. I
had the T1-R on my old miata and liked them.

Frank Berger wrote:
> pws wrote:
>> Frank Berger wrote:
>>
>>> I looked them up. I like them well enough. What tires do you have
>>> on them. I have Falken Azeni 615s. 215/45/17, IIRC.
>> Right now, there is a set of worn-out tires on it, and I plan to
>> replace them with the Bridgestone RE-11's if I keep the car and/or
>> the wheels. The tire size 215/40/16, but I plan on going with a
>> 225/50/16 if/when I replace the tires.
>>
>> BTW, the Falken Azeni has fantastic grip, but it is known as a pretty
>> harsh-riding tire even amongst the people that like them. Lots of
>> sidewall stiffness at the expense of comfort.
>>
>> You would probably see a big comfort difference switching to something
>> like the Toyo T-1, or presumably, the Bridgestone RE-11 as well, even
>> with your current wheel size and weight.
>> Going with a 50 profile instead of the 45 might help a little too. My
>> guess is that changing the tires would make a bigger difference than
>> losing a few pounds of wheel weight, though doing both would be great.
>>
>> Let us know what you do!
>>
>> Pat
>
> Again, I was thinking that just downsizing to 16" and putting more rubber
> between me and the road would soften the ride, aside from the question of
> what tire to get. I didn't know the Azenis were known for harshness. I
> had the T1-R on my old miata and liked them.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from that at all, really just thinking in
text. You should ask others what they think of the Azeni, my opinion is
just that, an opinion, but I think Lanny will back me up on the ride
quality of this tire compared to others.

Changing just the tires is a lower-cost attempt to improve the way you
want the car to feel that may be worth investigating, though going to
16" and a different tire would also change it up for you.
If the Azeni was chosen for the 16" wheels, I think that the ride would
still be uncomfortable to you compared to your 15" Toyo T-1's.

Is there any way that you could drive another MSM with the OEM wheels
but different tires to see how it feels?
Since you liked the T-1's, I am sure that you would like them on your
MSM as well, though Lanny is really gung-ho on the RE-11's, and I trust
his opinion on tires more than my own.

Pat

pws wrote:

> If the Azeni was chosen for the 16" wheels, I think that the ride would
> still be uncomfortable to you compared to your 15" Toyo T-1's.

To clarify, I am not saying that you would choose the Azeni for your new
wheels, just submitting my opinion that the Toyo T1's will probably be
better in comfort regardless of the wheel size, over a range of a few
pounds and a couple of inches at least.

In other words, I would guess that the 17" wheels with a set of T1's
would be more comfortable than a set of Azenis on 16" wheels, maybe even
15" wheels.
This takes into account things like a probable increased wheel weight as
well. Maybe a lower profile too, though the 195/50/15 that Mazda started
using in 1995 is not a thick tire at all.

My theory is not exactly scientific since I have never even driven a
Miata on 17" wheels, but I do have a lot of experience with 15 & 16 inch
wheels and using both of the tires that we are now discussing.

Pat

In article >,
pws > wrote:

> I like how both of those wheel models look, but I also like the Rota
> Slipstreams and the OZ Ultraleggras.
> Lanny has the former, and Chris D. has the latter, both in 16" iirc, and
> they can probably give you some weight estimates.

My Slipstreams are 15x6.5 and just under 12 lb.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

In article >,
pws > wrote:

> Since you liked the T-1's, I am sure that you would like them on your
> MSM as well, though Lanny is really gung-ho on the RE-11's, and I trust
> his opinion on tires more than my own.

Oh, puh-LEEZE, Pat! :-)

The RE-11 rides surprisingly well for having such good turn in. The T1R
has a softer turn in, but I doubt any tire rides better, certainly no
performance tire, and it's very light.

I loved the T1R when the car was being used for 5000-mile road trips; it
was quiet, smooth, sticky, and long-lasting for a UHP tire. But my Miata
is now retired from that duty, and is just a weekend toy; any tire I buy
will harden from age before it goes bald, so tread life is no longer a
consideration. I thought it was time to shift the compromise away from
practicality and toward raw performance. The RE-11 seems perfect for my
present needs. The Star Spec would probably work nearly as well.

One thing: I hear T1Rs are in short supply right now, with more arriving
later this summer.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

Lanny Chambers wrote:
> In article >,
> pws > wrote:
>
>> Since you liked the T-1's, I am sure that you would like them on your
>> MSM as well, though Lanny is really gung-ho on the RE-11's, and I trust
>> his opinion on tires more than my own.
>
> Oh, puh-LEEZE, Pat! :-)

Well, I was exaggerating a little bit there, but I will buy a set of
RE-11's based on your review alone, so that counts for something anyway. :-)

> The RE-11 rides surprisingly well for having such good turn in. The T1R
> has a softer turn in, but I doubt any tire rides better, certainly no
> performance tire, and it's very light.
>
> I loved the T1R when the car was being used for 5000-mile road trips; it
> was quiet, smooth, sticky, and long-lasting for a UHP tire. But my Miata
> is now retired from that duty, and is just a weekend toy; any tire I buy
> will harden from age before it goes bald, so tread life is no longer a
> consideration. I thought it was time to shift the compromise away from
> practicality and toward raw performance. The RE-11 seems perfect for my
> present needs. The Star Spec would probably work nearly as well.
>
> One thing: I hear T1Rs are in short supply right now, with more arriving
> later this summer.

It sounds like another set of T1R's could be in Frank's future in
whichever wheel size he chooses.

Pat

"Lanny Chambers" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> pws > wrote:
>
>> I like how both of those wheel models look, but I also like the Rota
>> Slipstreams and the OZ Ultraleggras.
>> Lanny has the former, and Chris D. has the latter, both in 16" iirc, and
>> they can probably give you some weight estimates.
>
> My Slipstreams are 15x6.5 and just under 12 lb.
>
> --
> Lanny Chambers
> St. Louis, MO
> '94C

My OZ Ultraleggra's are 16x7 and weigh 14.5 lbs ea. I feel like they are a
decent compromise of weight / price but to be honest, I had some $ I made
just for this so, I probably spent more than I normally would have. These
sold for $219 ea at the time (Tire Rack) in 06. I also bought at the time,
the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 (ya, that's a mouthful ;-) and I can't say
enough about them. IIRC they had just won C&D's UHP tire test (or finished
super high) and they were absolutely wonderful, I would say almost no
compromises but at $130 / tire they weren't cheap either. I've found nearly
as good a tire in the Yokohama Prada Spec2's and I think they are right at
$100 ea iirc. Both the Goodyears and the Yoko's have been good enough that I
quit changing out tires (I was using Azenni 615's) to autocross. These tires
come VERY close (I think they are pretty much equal and I've driven the car
with Azenni's on one end and the Yoko's on the other (on a track day) so,
I'm not making this up, the car felt just like it had all 4 Azenni's. The
treadwear ratings are ~200 so, even though I understand that you (sadly)
cannot directly compare treadwear ratings as apples to apples, the Azenni's
being 140's, I feel like I can have my cake and eat it too, by saving the
time and trouble to change out wheels/tires once a month.

I second Pat's info on the Azenni's as to their harsh ride. Never bothered
me but my wife hated them and so .......... I hated them on the street. It
is far easier to change tires than wives, as you may well know ;-)

I feel like 16's are the perfect compromise on the Miata also. To me, 15's
just look too old school and low tech (nothing personal) and 16's look more
modern w/o being a nightmare to live with or looking like a rubber band. I
really DO like the looks of the (04) MSM 17's though. Of course Lanny's
point is a good one, design, materials and construction methods can skew
all of this to where a certain 17" tire MAY ride as well as most 16" tires
but in general, physics are what they are and if you have to repel (equal)
impacts in a shorter distance/sidewall, you are going to have to be stiffer,
right?

Well, at least that's the case until GM starts putting their magic magnetic
shock fluid into tires ;-) Hmmmmmmmm!

Chris
99BBB

pws wrote:
> Lanny Chambers wrote:
>> In article >,
>> pws > wrote:
>>
>>> Since you liked the T-1's, I am sure that you would like them on
>>> your MSM as well, though Lanny is really gung-ho on the RE-11's,
>>> and I trust his opinion on tires more than my own.
>>
>> Oh, puh-LEEZE, Pat! :-)
>
> Well, I was exaggerating a little bit there, but I will buy a set of
> RE-11's based on your review alone, so that counts for something
> anyway. :-)
>> The RE-11 rides surprisingly well for having such good turn in. The
>> T1R has a softer turn in, but I doubt any tire rides better,
>> certainly no performance tire, and it's very light.
>>
>> I loved the T1R when the car was being used for 5000-mile road
>> trips; it was quiet, smooth, sticky, and long-lasting for a UHP
>> tire. But my Miata is now retired from that duty, and is just a
>> weekend toy; any tire I buy will harden from age before it goes
>> bald, so tread life is no longer a consideration. I thought it was
>> time to shift the compromise away from practicality and toward raw
>> performance. The RE-11 seems perfect for my present needs. The Star
>> Spec would probably work nearly as well. One thing: I hear T1Rs are in
>> short supply right now, with more
>> arriving later this summer.
>
> It sounds like another set of T1R's could be in Frank's future in
> whichever wheel size he chooses.
>
> Pat

Are these your wheels, Pat?

http://www.j-specperf.ch/images/ssr_type_c_rs.jpg

Frank Berger wrote:
> pws wrote:
>> Lanny Chambers wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> pws > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since you liked the T-1's, I am sure that you would like them on
>>>> your MSM as well, though Lanny is really gung-ho on the RE-11's,
>>>> and I trust his opinion on tires more than my own.
>>> Oh, puh-LEEZE, Pat! :-)
>> Well, I was exaggerating a little bit there, but I will buy a set of
>> RE-11's based on your review alone, so that counts for something
>> anyway. :-)
>>> The RE-11 rides surprisingly well for having such good turn in. The
>>> T1R has a softer turn in, but I doubt any tire rides better,
>>> certainly no performance tire, and it's very light.
>>>
>>> I loved the T1R when the car was being used for 5000-mile road
>>> trips; it was quiet, smooth, sticky, and long-lasting for a UHP
>>> tire. But my Miata is now retired from that duty, and is just a
>>> weekend toy; any tire I buy will harden from age before it goes
>>> bald, so tread life is no longer a consideration. I thought it was
>>> time to shift the compromise away from practicality and toward raw
>>> performance. The RE-11 seems perfect for my present needs. The Star
>>> Spec would probably work nearly as well. One thing: I hear T1Rs are in
>>> short supply right now, with more
>>> arriving later this summer.
>> It sounds like another set of T1R's could be in Frank's future in
>> whichever wheel size he chooses.
>>
>> Pat
>
> Are these your wheels, Pat?
>
> http://www.j-specperf.ch/images/ssr_type_c_rs.jpg

yes, those are my wheels in black. The ones I have are aluminum colored.
(silver?)

Pat