What I don't like about my "new" MSM.

1. Harsh ride. I attribute this to the 17" wheels, which I do think are
good looking. Not bizarrely large like some say. If I decide to keep the
car, for sure I will get smaller wheels. Not sure if I have to go down to
15" do make a difference, or what the wheel/tire choices are in 16," which I
think might look best.

2. The 6-speed is odd. 1st and 2nd are too short, 5th and 6th too tall. I
never, ever missed shifts on the 5-speed. With the 6-speed sometimes it's
hard to tell whether you're in 3rd or 5th. If I decide to keep the car, I
would seriously considering a 5-speed swap, depending on the cost.

3. Haven't got the Prosport gauges wired correctly yet. It's tiresome to
have to initialize them every time you start the car. Oviously fixable.

In the end, I'm not sure it's suitable as a daily driver. It wants to be on
the open highway or on a track. Not happy in traffic. The old Miata,
though lacking power, was really more fun to drive, I think. The hot and
humit weather here in Dallas lately hasn't been pleasant either.

OTOH, I've gotten more complements on the car in the few weeks I've owned it
than in the 14 years I had my '96 Montego Blue.

If I do decide to keep it, I think I will add to the Little Enchilada
package it already and upgrade the ECU and injectors. If.

Off to San Francisco on business tomorrow for a few days. That will cool me
off.

Frank Berger wrote:
> 1. Harsh ride. I attribute this to the 17" wheels, which I do think are
> good looking. Not bizarrely large like some say. If I decide to keep the
> car, for sure I will get smaller wheels. Not sure if I have to go down to
> 15" do make a difference, or what the wheel/tire choices are in 16," which I
> think might look best.
>
> 2. The 6-speed is odd. 1st and 2nd are too short, 5th and 6th too tall. I
> never, ever missed shifts on the 5-speed. With the 6-speed sometimes it's
> hard to tell whether you're in 3rd or 5th. If I decide to keep the car, I
> would seriously considering a 5-speed swap, depending on the cost.
>
> 3. Haven't got the Prosport gauges wired correctly yet. It's tiresome to
> have to initialize them every time you start the car. Oviously fixable.
>
> In the end, I'm not sure it's suitable as a daily driver. It wants to be on
> the open highway or on a track. Not happy in traffic. The old Miata,
> though lacking power, was really more fun to drive, I think. The hot and
> humit weather here in Dallas lately hasn't been pleasant either.
>
> OTOH, I've gotten more complements on the car in the few weeks I've owned it
> than in the 14 years I had my '96 Montego Blue.
>
> If I do decide to keep it, I think I will add to the Little Enchilada
> package it already and upgrade the ECU and injectors. If.
>
> Off to San Francisco on business tomorrow for a few days. That will cool me
> off.

Frank,

I had very similar feelings when I went from my '96M to my 1991 turbo
with no AC, a stiff clutch, bigger, (though lighter) wheels, KYB shocks
with coiloevers instead of Konis with stock springs.

The car I have now is superior for many, probably even most track
applications.
The stock, normally aspirated miata is, imo, better for the street in
almost every way.

Not sure what my point is, or if I even have one. I am pretty sure that
I would be OK with your MSM because it is more civilized than what I
have been driving for over 5 years, but your feelings are understandable.

It sounds like installing a set of lightweight 16" wheels, a 5-speed
transmission, and fixing that gauge could clear up any problems for you.

Let us know what you do. If you sell it, and I am still in Texas at the
time, I would be interested.

Pat

pws wrote:
> Frank Berger wrote:
>> 1. Harsh ride. I attribute this to the 17" wheels, which I do think
>> are good looking. Not bizarrely large like some say. If I decide
>> to keep the car, for sure I will get smaller wheels. Not sure if I
>> have to go down to 15" do make a difference, or what the wheel/tire
>> choices are in 16," which I think might look best.
>>
>> 2. The 6-speed is odd. 1st and 2nd are too short, 5th and 6th too
>> tall. I never, ever missed shifts on the 5-speed. With the 6-speed
>> sometimes it's hard to tell whether you're in 3rd or 5th. If I decide
>> to keep the car, I would seriously considering a 5-speed swap,
>> depending on the cost.
>>
>> 3. Haven't got the Prosport gauges wired correctly yet. It's tiresome
>> to have to initialize them every time you start the car. Oviously
>> fixable.
>>
>> In the end, I'm not sure it's suitable as a daily driver. It wants to
>> be on the open highway or on a track. Not happy in traffic. The old
>> Miata, though lacking power, was really more fun to drive, I think.
>> The hot and humit weather here in Dallas lately hasn't been pleasant
>> either.
>>
>> OTOH, I've gotten more complements on the car in the few weeks I've
>> owned it than in the 14 years I had my '96 Montego Blue.
>>
>> If I do decide to keep it, I think I will add to the Little Enchilada
>> package it already and upgrade the ECU and injectors. If.
>>
>> Off to San Francisco on business tomorrow for a few days. That will
>> cool me off.
>
> Frank,

Also, if I am able to make it to Dallas in my Miata one of these days,
we could swap out the SSR Competitions and let you see how the car
drives with 16X7 wheels that weigh around 11.5 pounds each.

Pat

On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:10:07 -0500, Frank Berger wrote:

> 1. Harsh ride. I attribute this to the 17" wheels, which I do think
> are good looking. Not bizarrely large like some say. If I decide
> to keep the car, for sure I will get smaller wheels. Not sure if I
> have to go down to 15" do make a difference, or what the wheel/tire
> choices are in 16," which I think might look best.

I loved how the 17" wheels looked but within a year I managed to put two
of them out of round. They isn't much sidewall and they don't seem to be
very strong to begin with. I found lighter 16" wheels which made a
surprisingly big difference in ride quality and general tossability.

> 2. The 6-speed is odd. 1st and 2nd are too short, 5th and 6th too
> tall. I never, ever missed shifts on the 5-speed. With the 6-speed
> sometimes it's hard to tell whether you're in 3rd or 5th. If I decide
> to keep the car, I would seriously considering a 5-speed swap,
> depending on the cost.

I think the gearing is too short, including 5th and 6th. I've been
considering going to a taller final drive ratio. Apparently the
internals of the MSM 6-speed have been beefed up some, and there is a
3.63 out there that makes the car much more drivable. I am not sure if
this is cheaper/easer than doing a transmission swap. A taller final
drive might be a good fit in your car, since you already have probably
200 HP at the wheels.

I would actually like to get the little enchalada and the taller final
drive. I'm fighting the urge...

> 1. Harsh ride. *I attribute this to the 17" wheels, which I do think are
> good looking. *Not bizarrely large like some say. * *If I decide to keep the
> car, for sure I will get smaller wheels. *Not sure if I have to go down to
> 15" do make a difference, or what the wheel/tire choices are in 16," which I
> think might look best.
>

Well the ride is also tied to the factory Bilstiens that your car is
sporting. I will agree, having a 97 and an 04 MSM, that the MSM is
much harsher. The upside of those changes is the fact that with the
limited slip differential and the stiffer suspension it corners better
than my '97.

> 2. The 6-speed is odd. *1st and 2nd are too short, 5th and 6th too tall.. *I

Amen to that. I was bouncing off the revlimiter in first and second
before I could blink twice for the first couple weeks of ownership.

> never, ever missed shifts on the 5-speed. *With the 6-speed sometimes it's
> hard to tell whether you're in 3rd or 5th. *If I decide to keep the car, I

I also dislike the placement of reverse. It should never be on the
side of the gate that you are going to shift TOWARDS in my opinion.

> 3. Haven't got the Prosport gauges wired correctly yet. *It's tiresome to
> have to initialize them every time you start the car. *Oviously fixable..
>

Can't help you there but I am curious as to the fitting of the A-
pillar pod? How's that working out for you? I put a boost gauge on
mine in the hole for the vent on the drivers side. I'm regretting it,
and might pull it out and put the vent back in.

> In the end, I'm not sure it's suitable as a daily driver. *It wants to be on
> the open highway or on a track. *Not happy in traffic. *The old Miata,
> though lacking power, was really more fun to drive, I think. *

I have to admit for comfort reasons alone I like my '97 better. I also
like the throttle response of the 97 better. The MSM seems to 'sag' a
little, for lack of a better term. The computer never seems to make up
its mind about boost or no boost, resulting in a power surge around
4500rpm, and there are lots of little oddities in the way the engine
responds to inputs. Flyin' Miata says that the stock ECU programming
is somewhat crappy in that regard, and based on my experience with my
car, I'm inclined to agree. I believe the hydra nemesis ECU solves all
of those issues....

> If I do decide to keep it, I think I will add to the Little Enchilada
> package it already and upgrade the ECU and injectors. *If.

I've been kicking around the idea of a trip to CO to have the guys at
Flyin Miata put the big enchilada in for me. Unfortunately my wallet
keeps throwing me reality checks.... :-)

Chris

Hal wrote:
>> 1. Harsh ride. I attribute this to the 17" wheels, which I do think
>> are good looking. Not bizarrely large like some say. If I decide to
>> keep the car, for sure I will get smaller wheels. Not sure if I have
>> to go down to 15" do make a difference, or what the wheel/tire
>> choices are in 16," which I think might look best.
>>
>
> Well the ride is also tied to the factory Bilstiens that your car is
> sporting. I will agree, having a 97 and an 04 MSM, that the MSM is
> much harsher. The upside of those changes is the fact that with the
> limited slip differential and the stiffer suspension it corners better
> than my '97.
>
>> 2. The 6-speed is odd. 1st and 2nd are too short, 5th and 6th too
>> tall. I
>
> Amen to that. I was bouncing off the revlimiter in first and second
> before I could blink twice for the first couple weeks of ownership.
>
>> never, ever missed shifts on the 5-speed. With the 6-speed sometimes
>> it's hard to tell whether you're in 3rd or 5th. If I decide to keep
>> the car, I
>
> I also dislike the placement of reverse. It should never be on the
> side of the gate that you are going to shift TOWARDS in my opinion.
>

It usually takes a couple of tries just to get into reverse.

>> 3. Haven't got the Prosport gauges wired correctly yet. It's
>> tiresome to have to initialize them every time you start the car.
>> Oviously fixable.
>>
>
> Can't help you there but I am curious as to the fitting of the A-
> pillar pod? How's that working out for you? I put a boost gauge on
> mine in the hole for the vent on the drivers side. I'm regretting it,
> and might pull it out and put the vent back in.
>

The previous owner found a pod that holds two gauges that fits over the A
pillar. Its looks fine to me. Much like this, but with two gauges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwYHtYgWmok

>> In the end, I'm not sure it's suitable as a daily driver. It wants
>> to be on the open highway or on a track. Not happy in traffic. The
>> old Miata,
>> though lacking power, was really more fun to drive, I think.
>
> I have to admit for comfort reasons alone I like my '97 better. I also
> like the throttle response of the 97 better. The MSM seems to 'sag' a
> little, for lack of a better term. The computer never seems to make up
> its mind about boost or no boost, resulting in a power surge around
> 4500rpm, and there are lots of little oddities in the way the engine
> responds to inputs. Flyin' Miata says that the stock ECU programming
> is somewhat crappy in that regard, and based on my experience with my
> car, I'm inclined to agree. I believe the hydra nemesis ECU solves all
> of those issues....

I agree with these observations.

>

>> If I do decide to keep it, I think I will add to the Little Enchilada
>> package it already and upgrade the ECU and injectors. If.
>
> I've been kicking around the idea of a trip to CO to have the guys at
> Flyin Miata put the big enchilada in for me. Unfortunately my wallet
> keeps throwing me reality checks.... :-)
>
> Chris

Carbon wrote:
> On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:10:07 -0500, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>> 1. Harsh ride. I attribute this to the 17" wheels, which I do think
>> are good looking. Not bizarrely large like some say. If I decide
>> to keep the car, for sure I will get smaller wheels. Not sure if I
>> have to go down to 15" do make a difference, or what the wheel/tire
>> choices are in 16," which I think might look best.
>
> I loved how the 17" wheels looked but within a year I managed to put
> two of them out of round. They isn't much sidewall and they don't
> seem to be very strong to begin with. I found lighter 16" wheels
> which made a surprisingly big difference in ride quality and general
> tossability.
>
>> 2. The 6-speed is odd. 1st and 2nd are too short, 5th and 6th too
>> tall. I never, ever missed shifts on the 5-speed. With the 6-speed
>> sometimes it's hard to tell whether you're in 3rd or 5th. If I
>> decide to keep the car, I would seriously considering a 5-speed swap,
>> depending on the cost.
>
> I think the gearing is too short, including 5th and 6th. I've been
> considering going to a taller final drive ratio. Apparently the
> internals of the MSM 6-speed have been beefed up some, and there is a
> 3.63 out there that makes the car much more drivable. I am not sure if
> this is cheaper/easer than doing a transmission swap. A taller final
> drive might be a good fit in your car, since you already have probably
> 200 HP at the wheels.
>
> I would actually like to get the little enchalada and the taller final
> drive. I'm fighting the urge...

Where does one find the 3.63?

Frank Berger wrote:
> 1. Harsh ride. I attribute this to the 17" wheels, which I do think are
> good looking. Not bizarrely large like some say. If I decide to keep the
> car, for sure I will get smaller wheels. Not sure if I have to go down to
> 15" do make a difference, or what the wheel/tire choices are in 16," which I
> think might look best.
>

Isn't the brakes on the MSM supposed to be a little bigger than on the
none-MSM ones!? I'm only basing this on what I've read since the MSM is
not sold here so I have never seen one but it's something you should
check before swapping rims.

Also I would think the tire selection my make a difference. At least
this is what I have noticed with the 15" ones on my car.

Regards
Bruno

Bruno, Copenhagen - Denmark wrote:
> Frank Berger wrote:
>> 1. Harsh ride. I attribute this to the 17" wheels, which I do think
>> are good looking. Not bizarrely large like some say. If I decide
>> to keep the car, for sure I will get smaller wheels. Not sure if I
>> have to go down to 15" do make a difference, or what the wheel/tire
>> choices are in 16," which I think might look best.
>>
>
> Isn't the brakes on the MSM supposed to be a little bigger than on the
> none-MSM ones!? I'm only basing this on what I've read since the MSM
> is not sold here so I have never seen one but it's something you
> should check before swapping rims.
>
> Also I would think the tire selection my make a difference. At least
> this is what I have noticed with the 15" ones on my car.
>
> Regards
> Bruno

Sure it makes a difference, butI think the amount of rubber between you and
the road makes a bigger difference. Besides, whatever tire I select will be
a summer wet/dry performance one, so I don't think that will make much
difference.

Yes, the brakes are bigger and some wheels don't fit. I promise to be
careful in choosing.

Thanks.

On Thu, 27 May 2010 00:41:01 -0500, Frank Berger wrote:
> Carbon wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:10:07 -0500, Frank Berger wrote:
>>
>>> 1. Harsh ride. I attribute this to the 17" wheels, which I do think
>>> are good looking. Not bizarrely large like some say. If I decide
>>> to keep the car, for sure I will get smaller wheels. Not sure if I
>>> have to go down to 15" do make a difference, or what the wheel/tire
>>> choices are in 16," which I think might look best.
>>
>> I loved how the 17" wheels looked but within a year I managed to put
>> two of them out of round. They isn't much sidewall and they don't
>> seem to be very strong to begin with. I found lighter 16" wheels
>> which made a surprisingly big difference in ride quality and general
>> tossability.
>>
>>> 2. The 6-speed is odd. 1st and 2nd are too short, 5th and 6th too
>>> tall. I never, ever missed shifts on the 5-speed. With the 6-speed
>>> sometimes it's hard to tell whether you're in 3rd or 5th. If I
>>> decide to keep the car, I would seriously considering a 5-speed
>>> swap, depending on the cost.
>>
>> I think the gearing is too short, including 5th and 6th. I've been
>> considering going to a taller final drive ratio. Apparently the
>> internals of the MSM 6-speed have been beefed up some, and there is a
>> 3.63 out there that makes the car much more drivable. I am not sure
>> if this is cheaper/easer than doing a transmission swap. A taller
>> final drive might be a good fit in your car, since you already have
>> probably 200 HP at the wheels.
>>
>> I would actually like to get the little enchalada and the taller
>> final drive. I'm fighting the urge...
>
> Where does one find the 3.63?

This place has them: https://miataroadster.com/mazda.html