Greetings and Camry Hybrid

I've lurked around this group for a while, and have found it very
interesting and useful. Thanks to all those who've left helpful info in
the archives. And thanks to Tegger for maintaining a worthwhile FAQ.

My DIY ambitions don't extend byond changing my oil, PCV and air
filter, but I know enough to keep my '96 Accord LX AT in tip-top shape.
I had the timing belt and cracking CV boots replaced at 97,000 miles -
all other upkeep according to schedule. I'm at 102,000 now, and the car
runs like new, especially with a new set of Potenzas and three coats of
Klasse sealant glaze. I fully expect it to continue to run (and be fun
to drive) until I'm ready for a new car - when some lucky buyer
inherits my baby.

So I'm definitely a Honda fan. I love the reliability, attention to
detail, ergonomics and sprightly drive. But right now I'm thinking the
unthinkable: I may end up buying a Camry if Honda doesn't re-evaluate
it's hybrid strategy.

I don't plan to get a new car until probably 2008, when I'm at about
150,000-200,000 on the LX. But if gas prices are still ~3.00/gallon or
more when I do, mid-size, economical hybrids will be on my short list.
The new Camry hybrid, with a combined (electric and gas) 192 bhp,
realistic (not EPA) mid-30's mileage city and highway and normal,
non-funky-hybid design, priced below the top-of-the-line V-6 model,
seems to be a formidable combination.

The Accord Hybrid is no doubt an impressive machine. It has power and
luxury to spare, but doesn't offer value or economy the way the Camry
hybrid does.

So we'll see what happens in 2008. Unless I'm missing something about
Honda's hybrid strategy, the next generation Accord will offer a
mid-size option with real economy. If not, I think the sales figures we
will see from the Camry hybrid will show a huge missed opportunity for
Honda. It seems to me that a 4 cylinder, ~160hp Accord EX hybrid in the
mid to upper 30 mpg range would command a good chunk of the hybrid
market. It would definitely be at the top of my list. But I've been
wrong before.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in news:elmop-
:

> In article .com>,
> "begemot" > wrote:
>
>> But right now I'm thinking the
>> unthinkable: I may end up buying a Camry if Honda doesn't re-evaluate
>> it's hybrid strategy.
>
> When you can go out and buy a used Accord EX and get 35mpg on the
> freeway in summer with the A/C on, you re-think the whole hybrid thing.
>


Wife and I saw a Prius on a dealer's lot last week. Going by the sticker in
the window, we determined that if she were to drive a Prius the way she
drives her Tercel right now, it would take fifteen years of gas savings to
recoup the cost of a new Prius over a new Corolla, even when disregarding
financing costs

Hybrids are bought as a political statement. The have no other function.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in news:elmop-
:

> In article >,
> "TeGGeR®" > wrote:
>
>> Hybrids are bought as a political statement. The have no other function.
>
> Exactly so.
>
>



What are also bought as a political statement are those "Smart" cars
available in Canada. Those are some expensive phone booths.

You could never save enough on gas to make up for the inflated purchase
price. They're always bought by affluent-looking people in their late-40s
or older. And in spite of that, Mercedes loses money on each one sold.
Stupid.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

wrote:

>> And what about safety? From what I've seen, there's no question that
>> Honda is one of the safest, if not the safest, cars on the road.
>
> You're on thin ice here. Honda is safe but no safer than Toyota. In
> fact, the 2007 Camry has safety features not available on the Accord.
> Still, I'd rather be in a Mercedes S-class if I had the choice.

Actually I would rather NOT be in an accident in a Ford Pinto than in an
accident in ANY car.
>

"TeGGeR®" > wrote in message
...
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in news:elmop-
> :
>
>> In article .com>,
>> "begemot" > wrote:
>>
>>> But right now I'm thinking the
>>> unthinkable: I may end up buying a Camry if Honda doesn't re-evaluate
>>> it's hybrid strategy.
>>
>> When you can go out and buy a used Accord EX and get 35mpg on the
>> freeway in summer with the A/C on, you re-think the whole hybrid thing.
>
> Wife and I saw a Prius on a dealer's lot last week. Going by the sticker
> in
> the window, we determined that if she were to drive a Prius the way she
> drives her Tercel right now, it would take fifteen years of gas savings to
> recoup the cost of a new Prius over a new Corolla, even when disregarding
> financing costs
>
> Hybrids are bought as a political statement. The have no other function.


You sound like you have something hard and sharp up your butt.

You're forgetting some key points. One is that not everybody drives the car
like your wife drives her. The other is that you assume you'll always be
able to get fuel. Finally, you're assuming hybrid vehicles are going to
remain slightly expensive. Their relevance to your own situation may vary
in each case, but what if... oooh... fuel quadruples in price? Would the
car pay for itself in three years then?

But regardless, from the sounds of it your wife does a pretty limited
mileage? Then a car is the *last* thing she needs. Walk. Get the bus.
Get the train. Use a push bike.

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

"begemot" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I've lurked around this group for a while, and have found it very
> interesting and useful. Thanks to all those who've left helpful info in
> the archives. And thanks to Tegger for maintaining a worthwhile FAQ.
>
> My DIY ambitions don't extend byond changing my oil, PCV and air
> filter, but I know enough to keep my '96 Accord LX AT in tip-top shape.
> I had the timing belt and cracking CV boots replaced at 97,000 miles -
> all other upkeep according to schedule. I'm at 102,000 now, and the car
> runs like new, especially with a new set of Potenzas and three coats of
> Klasse sealant glaze. I fully expect it to continue to run (and be fun
> to drive) until I'm ready for a new car - when some lucky buyer
> inherits my baby.
>
> So I'm definitely a Honda fan. I love the reliability, attention to
> detail, ergonomics and sprightly drive. But right now I'm thinking the
> unthinkable: I may end up buying a Camry if Honda doesn't re-evaluate
> it's hybrid strategy.
>
> I don't plan to get a new car until probably 2008, when I'm at about
> 150,000-200,000 on the LX. But if gas prices are still ~3.00/gallon or
> more when I do, mid-size, economical hybrids will be on my short list.
> The new Camry hybrid, with a combined (electric and gas) 192 bhp,
> realistic (not EPA) mid-30's mileage city and highway and normal,
> non-funky-hybid design, priced below the top-of-the-line V-6 model,
> seems to be a formidable combination.
>
> The Accord Hybrid is no doubt an impressive machine. It has power and
> luxury to spare, but doesn't offer value or economy the way the Camry
> hybrid does.
>
> So we'll see what happens in 2008. Unless I'm missing something about
> Honda's hybrid strategy, the next generation Accord will offer a
> mid-size option with real economy. If not, I think the sales figures we
> will see from the Camry hybrid will show a huge missed opportunity for
> Honda. It seems to me that a 4 cylinder, ~160hp Accord EX hybrid in the
> mid to upper 30 mpg range would command a good chunk of the hybrid
> market. It would definitely be at the top of my list. But I've been
> wrong before.


You may have to refresh my memory, but the hybrid Accord is a V6 isn't it?
There are two things that impress me most about the Prius. No, no, three.
One is how bloody clever Toyota are. Two is how much squirt the combined
engines have in the performance stakes. Three, how efficient it is.

But in this case, do you *need* the Accord? In my ever so humble opinion
people riding in the back are freeloaders and can put up with less room...
so what about the Civic?



--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in message
...
> In article .com>,
> "begemot" > wrote:
>
>> But right now I'm thinking the
>> unthinkable: I may end up buying a Camry if Honda doesn't re-evaluate
>> it's hybrid strategy.
>
> When you can go out and buy a used Accord EX and get 35mpg on the
> freeway in summer with the A/C on, you re-think the whole hybrid thing.

Hmm. Perhaps. Hybrid technology comes into its own under certain
conditions, and the motorway isn't one of them.

> And what about safety? From what I've seen, there's no question that
> Honda is one of the safest, if not the safest, cars on the road.

Thing is about safety is the number of gadgets doesn't necessarily reflect
the safety of it all.

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "TeGGeR®" > wrote:
>
>> Hybrids are bought as a political statement. The have no other function.
>
> Exactly so.


No.

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

"TeGGeR®" > wrote in message
...
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in news:elmop-
> :
>
>> In article >,
>> "TeGGeR®" > wrote:
>>
>>> Hybrids are bought as a political statement. The have no other function.
>>
>> Exactly so.
>
> What are also bought as a political statement are those "Smart" cars
> available in Canada. Those are some expensive phone booths.

Nope. Smart have the right idea. The average number of seats being
occupied in most major cities around the world is 1.2. Smart give you 2.0.
What is the point in having a car with 5.0 seats if for 90% of the time only
one person sits in it? That's the ethos behind the Smart.

You need to think outside your own nation.

> You could never save enough on gas to make up for the inflated purchase
> price.

Yes you absolutely can. Depends on what you're comparing it with and what
you need. Also depends on the fuel price. When the price of fuel
quadruples, it's amazing how people can suddenly make compromises.

> They're always bought by affluent-looking people in their late-40s
> or older.

Maybe in your neck of the woods, but you're dismissing most of the point.

> And in spite of that, Mercedes loses money on each one sold.

You cite this as though it's a bad thing, though?

> Stupid.



--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

DervMan > wrote:
> You may have to refresh my memory, but the hybrid Accord is a V6 isn't it?

Sometimes a V-6, sometimes a "3" with some excess weight. ;-)

> But in this case, do you *need* the Accord? In my ever so humble opinion
> people riding in the back are freeloaders and can put up with less
> room... so what about the Civic?

That would be my question about all of the recent hybrids. They are back
into a horsepower race, not an MPG race.

I read an article that said that the "green" market had been saturated.
All of the people inclined to buy an Insight bought them long ago. The
Civic and the Prius can be used by normal people, but that market has been
saturated as well, so along come the vehicles where you get to say you're
green while peeling rubber in an SUV.

Is the Camry hybrid about better MPG, or more power?

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5