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#41
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Now please do me a favor, and show me where anyone involved in FILSCA
has claimed to be or be part of "the kings of sims". Unlike some other ranking site we don't even claim to represent everyone. You always find a "FILSCA" prefix there. And please take a second, a minute, or even a day to think about this: you have a group of mates with whom you go out for a beer once a week. Do you think it appropriate if some one denies your right to do that, or do you think it is appropriate to call them wannabee beer ******s, or to insinuate that they drink away all the beer that the others want? A club is nothing more like that - be it that they go out for beer drinking or be it that the use some common applications, present them at a web site, have fun in racing sims, and maybe help each other with their daily work. Thank you for your consideration. Christoph Schirmer Ron Ayton wrote: > "Bombshell" > wrote in message > ... > > Just wondered what people's thoughts were on the whole FILSCA thing? > > > > Good, bad, indifferent, never heard of it? > > > > Cheers. > > > > Bombshell. > > > > When guys i used to race with back in 2000-2001 first mentioned the idea of > a central governing body for sim racing, (which incidentally was the > pre-formation of FILSCA), i looked at it as a bunch of wanna-bees trying to > gain control of my leisure time hobby. I didn't like the idea then, and i > don't like the idea now. > I will not have a cental governing group, wether it's democratically or > other-wise selected telling me how i should or shouldn't conduct myself, or > my club when i/we race on-line. > Ranks and other suck crap are all ego boosters for the few that like to see > their names in lights. > Whatever, go for it. > I personally, will never allow a few so-called sim experts to in any way > influence me on how i use my sims or on-line racing time. > I might feel a touch more generous to the idea if a central group were > democratically elected on a yearly bassis, with fully open-to-all voting, > but so far, all i have seen or heard of this elite group of self-proclaimed > "Kings of Sims", is their undying belief in their own holier than thou > attitude. > Take it or leave it, but for me, i don't need someone to tell me my rank, > how good i am, how bad i am, if i am safe to drive against, if i am as slow > as a snail, or as fast as lightening. > Reminds me of a story... The Pied Piper comes to mind... > > Cheers, > Ron |
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#42
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>I didn't like the idea then, and i don't like the idea now.
I firmly believe the websites that are run by individuals or small groups such as GPLrank, the track database, RSC, etc.. will inevitably go the way of eaglewoman and theuspits as their maintainers move on, retire, get hit by busses etc.. (I couldn't find your old F3 setups recently for example). An elected club-style organization seems like the perfect place to maintain and grow that content (hell I'd propose it's worth paying a small fee to maintain). Lots of people play hockey, golf, tennis without belonging to an orginized club, and the same should be true of sim racing but I imagine there are lots of little ways these clubs indirectly benifit the non-member player. Is FILSCA the forum? Probably not in it's current guise, at the moment they aren't interested and aren't big enough to tackle it even if they were. However neither can change from the outside. |
#43
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"mcewena" wrote:
> I firmly believe the websites that are run by individuals or small > groups such as GPLrank, the track database, RSC, etc.. will inevitably > go the way of eaglewoman and theuspits as their maintainers move on, > retire, get hit by busses etc.. (I couldn't find your old F3 setups > recently for example). An elected club-style organization seems like > the perfect place to maintain and grow that content (hell I'd propose > it's worth paying a small fee to maintain). I disagree. I believe the fan sites will remain whilst there is sufficient interest. Sure some may come and go, but I don't believe people will be prepared to pay for the co-ordination of fan sites. There is a tremendous amount of man hours and commitment going into the mods and so on. > Lots of people play hockey, golf, tennis without belonging to an > orginized club, and the same should be true of sim racing but I imagine > there are lots of little ways these clubs indirectly benifit the > non-member player. Going back a long while I belong to a motor club in the UK, which in itself was affiliated to a regional association of motor clubs with its own set of regional rules. This assocation was amember of the RAC motor sports association (RACSMA). To perform any form of motor sports I had to have an RACSMA competition licence. This licence would have many levels such that to rally in a national championship you needed regional experience etc. A "misbehaving" driver could have his licence suspended. The RACSMA provided the basic rules and requirements for the clubs and provided a policing function both for clubs (to ensure their events were properly run) and the drivers (to ensure they acted appropriately) This allowed the motor club for which I belonged to run national events and for their drivers to compete in other clubs events with a common umbrella organisation. This is where I see FILSCA or a similar organisation. Not a club - that is the grass roots level - but an association of clubs providing common standards, organising championships and events and a means of maintaining driving standards. Without some form of regional, national and international championships I see no real reason for such an association. My motor club would have run fine on its own if it just catered for its members and had no legal obligation to subscribe. The GPL league I race in runs superbly with excellent league admin, rules, agreement processes and quality drivers, so I and the league have no need for anything more. Which may be a reason the appetite for an association seems weak. However, unlike your local tennis club where you can be the local hero of a membership group spanning just a few miles, sim racing tends to be world wide. Maybe the opportunity to localise sim racing into local championships, extending to regional, national and international could be the route forward for developing interest. There aren't many other sports where you compete with the world's best at a club level. Food for thought maybe. Cheers Tony |
#44
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I am sure that FILSCA is the form - but we need more active members.
Without active members, the form will surely not work. A top-down commercial approach with investments - used to hand out small goodies or to set up a big event or both - could surely gather more people faster, but would it also stay for representing the diversity in online racing - the different leagues, the different sims etc. that FILSCA preserves? I doubt so. mcewena wrote: > >I didn't like the idea then, and i don't like the idea now. > > I firmly believe the websites that are run by individuals or small > groups such as GPLrank, the track database, RSC, etc.. will inevitably > go the way of eaglewoman and theuspits as their maintainers move on, > retire, get hit by busses etc.. (I couldn't find your old F3 setups > recently for example). An elected club-style organization seems like > the perfect place to maintain and grow that content (hell I'd propose > it's worth paying a small fee to maintain). > > Lots of people play hockey, golf, tennis without belonging to an > orginized club, and the same should be true of sim racing but I imagine > there are lots of little ways these clubs indirectly benifit the > non-member player. > > Is FILSCA the forum? Probably not in it's current guise, at the moment > they aren't interested and aren't big enough to tackle it even if they > were. However neither can change from the outside. |
#45
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"mcewena" > wrote in message oups.com... > I firmly believe the websites that are run by individuals or small > groups such as GPLrank, the track database, RSC, etc.. will inevitably > go the way of eaglewoman and theuspits as their maintainers move on, > retire, get hit by busses etc.. (I couldn't find your old F3 setups > recently for example). An elected club-style organization seems like > the perfect place to maintain and grow that content (hell I'd propose > it's worth paying a small fee to maintain). > > Lots of people play hockey, golf, tennis without belonging to an > orginized club, and the same should be true of sim racing but I imagine > there are lots of little ways these clubs indirectly benifit the > non-member player. > > Is FILSCA the forum? Probably not in it's current guise, at the moment > they aren't interested and aren't big enough to tackle it even if they > were. However neither can change from the outside. Hi Mac, long time no see... Hope you have been keeping well. I tend to agree with the basics of your thoughts, though FILSCA is far from the democratic approach that i would be looking for in a centralised governing body for sim racers world wide. Something like FILSCA would have some benefits to the sim racer as a whole, but it should not be run by a self appointed few, the board should be selected from the sim base world wide, maybe using RAS as a voting pool. I am just speculating anyway.... The trouble with these virtual systems of management is that they start out with good intentions, then the power usually gets to those in charge, from there it is a downhill slide untill the regular sim racer gets tired of a central body telling him/her what they can do and what they can't do. You yourself know what the feeling was amongst early GPL players when a select few (no names mentioned) thought they were the bees knees of GPL. That split the GPL community into two basic groups, those that thought they were better than everyone else and the rest, which compromised the average sim racer, be they fast, slow or indifferent. FILSCA will not work or be viable without a fully democratic (open to all sim racers) voting system and i can't see that ever happening as some people will not give up the reigns of power once they sample it. Cheers, Ron. |
#46
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FILSCA is not a governing body for sim racers world wide. Sim racers
would include non-league racers and offline racers as well. FILSCA is an association of leagues - of leagues who voluntarily join. FILSCA is also far from excercising power over leagues - it is a platform where leagues can help each other and where the leagues their drivers and their teams are presented together. One of the simplest advantages is e.g. this: the results as provided in GTR are far from any standard. Each league will have a hard work to provide results or to process these data into their databases. Within FILSCA one member admin coded the parser, and within the next few days, maybe even from tomorrow any member league can upload GTR results and gets automatically the results and standings. Even if you have something as the RA, you still get extensive statistics and everything. Another league which rents out servers, provides a free server for all member leagues or for team tests. There are further aspirations than that of course, and we'll see how it develops. Surely not by discussing about world governments or by dissing GPLers. But you can always join and help - there is a lot to do. And I go back to work now. Christoph Schirmer Ron Ayton wrote: > "mcewena" > wrote in message > oups.com... > > I firmly believe the websites that are run by individuals or small > > groups such as GPLrank, the track database, RSC, etc.. will inevitably > > go the way of eaglewoman and theuspits as their maintainers move on, > > retire, get hit by busses etc.. (I couldn't find your old F3 setups > > recently for example). An elected club-style organization seems like > > the perfect place to maintain and grow that content (hell I'd propose > > it's worth paying a small fee to maintain). > > > > Lots of people play hockey, golf, tennis without belonging to an > > orginized club, and the same should be true of sim racing but I imagine > > there are lots of little ways these clubs indirectly benifit the > > non-member player. > > > > Is FILSCA the forum? Probably not in it's current guise, at the moment > > they aren't interested and aren't big enough to tackle it even if they > > were. However neither can change from the outside. > > Hi Mac, long time no see... Hope you have been keeping well. > I tend to agree with the basics of your thoughts, though FILSCA is far from > the democratic approach that i would be looking for in a centralised > governing body for sim racers world wide. > Something like FILSCA would have some benefits to the sim racer as a whole, > but it should not be run by a self appointed few, the board should be > selected from the sim base world wide, maybe using RAS as a voting pool. > I am just speculating anyway.... > The trouble with these virtual systems of management is that they start out > with good intentions, then the power usually gets to those in charge, from > there it is a downhill slide untill the regular sim racer gets tired of a > central body telling him/her what they can do and what they can't do. > You yourself know what the feeling was amongst early GPL players when a > select few (no names mentioned) thought they were the bees knees of GPL. > That split the GPL community into two basic groups, those that thought they > were better than everyone else and the rest, which compromised the average > sim racer, be they fast, slow or indifferent. > FILSCA will not work or be viable without a fully democratic (open to all > sim racers) voting system and i can't see that ever happening as some people > will not give up the reigns of power once they sample it. > > Cheers, > Ron. |
#47
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"Shrapnel" > wrote in message ... > > >> It stinks! >> >> > > That may be so, but I can agree with Christoph here, AutoSimSport is not a > "FILSCA Newsletter" it is an independant magazine for the simracing > community, written for the whole community and not just FILSCA member > leagues. > > It features FILSCA race reports and results, but this is a small part of > the > whole. The magazine as it stands is trying to cover as broad a spread of > the simracing community as we can. > > Jon. > P.S: Anyway, this is not really anything to do with this discussion! ) > > It seems some of you missed the joke - the name "ASS" stinks. Maybe those who think their **** doesn't stink wouldn't catch on I suppose! |
#48
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Here's a retaliatory top post that also stinks!
"* The documents are sent to representatives of interested leagues upon request." This is the part I refer to. My point is simply that if I'm a league admin who's not overly fussed about joining then the added hassle/wait of this will probably just make me move on. Not to mention make people ask themselves "Why don't they just make this stuff public". This is an insult to the public in general and stinks of underhandedness. If there is stuff you'd rather not post publically then why stick that in the public's face in the first place? Just send it by email only after a league admin shows interest! If it's a big secret then keep it a big secret! "Christoph Schirmer" > wrote in message ups.com... You find the KISS versions at the FILSCA site: http://www.filsca.com/1000253/386 http://www.filsca.com/1000253/773 Next, I don't find it unsimple, but only fair not to tell you any bull**** or give you promises without providing complete information. You may call that a bad sales strategy, or not simple. This is not a company that wants to sell something, this is an adventure and an enterprise that wants to see if a large group of diverse people embedding within the sim racing community can seriously work on something. I do not want to hide that, even if that may require you to read a bit more and be more concentrated in doing so. And it is only legitimate to keep the more formal things within the members - apart from that anyone sees them before he/she joins. Should there be really a reason to worry about someone who can't even click a link to require more information? If you think there is something hidden - be happy with your conspiracy theory. But fact is: any league is invited to join, and anyone is getting all information before he/she joins. There is nothing hidden to those who are affected. And it is just good behavior and education not to wash internal clothes outside the members area. As I said: some issues in the statutes need to be revised, and there is surely no sense in publishing something where the leagues do not have had the chance to discuss this exensively. Once that is done, ít will be publicly available anyway. Byron Forbes wrote: > > Christoph Schirmer wrote: > > >The rules are sent to any applicant (sorry Art, still no > >> mail from you re. your league, so you do not have received the rules > > Like leagues that wish to attract drivers, you need to make everything > simple to understand and easy to join. All this under the table stuff is > ridiculous - no wonder there's all this paranoia about - it looks like > you're hiding something. And you are! I'd get rid of all that nonsense ASAP. > > As it is most league admins are probably umming and ahhing about joining > anyway. Making things difficult as you do just makes them forget you and > just get on with their own leagues. KISS. (ask what this means at your own > risk). |
#49
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I must say I don't know how anyone could be threatened by FILSCA, even
if they did have a sinister agenda. They can only have the power to attract leagues by offering clear benifits and little to no inconvenience - otherwise why would anyone join? But they do seem to have some secrets which is, of course, a clear indication of evil. "Christoph Schirmer" > wrote in message oups.com... > FILSCA is not a governing body for sim racers world wide. Sim racers > would include non-league racers and offline racers as well. FILSCA is > an association of leagues - of leagues who voluntarily join. > > FILSCA is also far from excercising power over leagues - it is a > platform where leagues can help each other and where the leagues their > drivers and their teams are presented together. > > One of the simplest advantages is e.g. this: the results as provided in > GTR are far from any standard. Each league will have a hard work to > provide results or to process these data into their databases. Within > FILSCA one member admin coded the parser, and within the next few days, > maybe even from tomorrow any member league can upload GTR results and > gets automatically the results and standings. Even if you have > something as the RA, you still get extensive statistics and everything. > > Another league which rents out servers, provides a free server for all > member leagues or for team tests. > > There are further aspirations than that of course, and we'll see how it > develops. Surely not by discussing about world governments or by > dissing GPLers. But you can always join and help - there is a lot to > do. And I go back to work now. > > Christoph Schirmer > > > > > Ron Ayton wrote: >> "mcewena" > wrote in message >> oups.com... >> > I firmly believe the websites that are run by individuals or small >> > groups such as GPLrank, the track database, RSC, etc.. will > inevitably >> > go the way of eaglewoman and theuspits as their maintainers move > on, >> > retire, get hit by busses etc.. (I couldn't find your old F3 > setups >> > recently for example). An elected club-style organization seems > like >> > the perfect place to maintain and grow that content (hell I'd > propose >> > it's worth paying a small fee to maintain). >> > >> > Lots of people play hockey, golf, tennis without belonging to an >> > orginized club, and the same should be true of sim racing but I > imagine >> > there are lots of little ways these clubs indirectly benifit the >> > non-member player. >> > >> > Is FILSCA the forum? Probably not in it's current guise, at the > moment >> > they aren't interested and aren't big enough to tackle it even if > they >> > were. However neither can change from the outside. >> >> Hi Mac, long time no see... Hope you have been keeping well. >> I tend to agree with the basics of your thoughts, though FILSCA is > far from >> the democratic approach that i would be looking for in a centralised >> governing body for sim racers world wide. >> Something like FILSCA would have some benefits to the sim racer as a > whole, >> but it should not be run by a self appointed few, the board should be > >> selected from the sim base world wide, maybe using RAS as a voting > pool. >> I am just speculating anyway.... >> The trouble with these virtual systems of management is that they > start out >> with good intentions, then the power usually gets to those in charge, > from >> there it is a downhill slide untill the regular sim racer gets tired > of a >> central body telling him/her what they can do and what they can't do. >> You yourself know what the feeling was amongst early GPL players when > a >> select few (no names mentioned) thought they were the bees knees of > GPL. >> That split the GPL community into two basic groups, those that > thought they >> were better than everyone else and the rest, which compromised the > average >> sim racer, be they fast, slow or indifferent. >> FILSCA will not work or be viable without a fully democratic (open > to all >> sim racers) voting system and i can't see that ever happening as some > people >> will not give up the reigns of power once they sample it. >> >> Cheers, >> Ron. > |
#50
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Honestly I don't know of any secrets - but it were really if a member
admin could say something about that as no one believes me here :LOL: The only definite downside that the members have not yet been engaged enough and that there is a lack of man power to be more attractive for more leagues. Byron Forbes wrote: > I must say I don't know how anyone could be threatened by FILSCA, even > if they did have a sinister agenda. They can only have the power to attract > leagues by offering clear benifits and little to no inconvenience - > otherwise why would anyone join? But they do seem to have some secrets which > is, of course, a clear indication of evil. > > > "Christoph Schirmer" > wrote in message > oups.com... > > FILSCA is not a governing body for sim racers world wide. Sim racers > > would include non-league racers and offline racers as well. FILSCA is > > an association of leagues - of leagues who voluntarily join. > > > > FILSCA is also far from excercising power over leagues - it is a > > platform where leagues can help each other and where the leagues their > > drivers and their teams are presented together. > > > > One of the simplest advantages is e.g. this: the results as provided in > > GTR are far from any standard. Each league will have a hard work to > > provide results or to process these data into their databases. Within > > FILSCA one member admin coded the parser, and within the next few days, > > maybe even from tomorrow any member league can upload GTR results and > > gets automatically the results and standings. Even if you have > > something as the RA, you still get extensive statistics and everything. > > > > Another league which rents out servers, provides a free server for all > > member leagues or for team tests. > > > > There are further aspirations than that of course, and we'll see how it > > develops. Surely not by discussing about world governments or by > > dissing GPLers. But you can always join and help - there is a lot to > > do. And I go back to work now. > > > > Christoph Schirmer > > > > > > > > > > Ron Ayton wrote: > >> "mcewena" > wrote in message > >> oups.com... > >> > I firmly believe the websites that are run by individuals or small > >> > groups such as GPLrank, the track database, RSC, etc.. will > > inevitably > >> > go the way of eaglewoman and theuspits as their maintainers move > > on, > >> > retire, get hit by busses etc.. (I couldn't find your old F3 > > setups > >> > recently for example). An elected club-style organization seems > > like > >> > the perfect place to maintain and grow that content (hell I'd > > propose > >> > it's worth paying a small fee to maintain). > >> > > >> > Lots of people play hockey, golf, tennis without belonging to an > >> > orginized club, and the same should be true of sim racing but I > > imagine > >> > there are lots of little ways these clubs indirectly benifit the > >> > non-member player. > >> > > >> > Is FILSCA the forum? Probably not in it's current guise, at the > > moment > >> > they aren't interested and aren't big enough to tackle it even if > > they > >> > were. However neither can change from the outside. > >> > >> Hi Mac, long time no see... Hope you have been keeping well. > >> I tend to agree with the basics of your thoughts, though FILSCA is > > far from > >> the democratic approach that i would be looking for in a centralised > >> governing body for sim racers world wide. > >> Something like FILSCA would have some benefits to the sim racer as a > > whole, > >> but it should not be run by a self appointed few, the board should be > > > >> selected from the sim base world wide, maybe using RAS as a voting > > pool. > >> I am just speculating anyway.... > >> The trouble with these virtual systems of management is that they > > start out > >> with good intentions, then the power usually gets to those in charge, > > from > >> there it is a downhill slide untill the regular sim racer gets tired > > of a > >> central body telling him/her what they can do and what they can't do. > >> You yourself know what the feeling was amongst early GPL players when > > a > >> select few (no names mentioned) thought they were the bees knees of > > GPL. > >> That split the GPL community into two basic groups, those that > > thought they > >> were better than everyone else and the rest, which compromised the > > average > >> sim racer, be they fast, slow or indifferent. > >> FILSCA will not work or be viable without a fully democratic (open > > to all > >> sim racers) voting system and i can't see that ever happening as some > > people > >> will not give up the reigns of power once they sample it. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Ron. > > |
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