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Gasoline with Ethanol



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 14th 06, 12:17 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Gasoline with Ethanol

well regardless of the outcome, whether we like it or not, ethanol is
here to stay - since it is the replacement for the mtbe

product which is being removed from present day gasoline due to ground
water contamination / etc..

an article stated that the ethanol was to be mixed with gasoline just
prior to delivery to the pumps, due to "instability", and also it cannot
be pumped through the pipeline system.

ethanol is a product of the farming community and is trucked to areas
where it is to be mixed with gasoline for consumer use..

mho
vfe


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  #2  
Old April 14th 06, 10:15 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Gasoline with Ethanol


> wrote in message
...
> well regardless of the outcome, whether we like it or not, ethanol is
> here to stay - since it is the replacement for the mtbe
>
> product which is being removed from present day gasoline due to ground
> water contamination / etc..
>
> an article stated that the ethanol was to be mixed with gasoline just
> prior to delivery to the pumps, due to "instability", and also it cannot
> be pumped through the pipeline system.
>
> ethanol is a product of the farming community and is trucked to areas
> where it is to be mixed with gasoline for consumer use..
>


Yup, and the farmers get it by heavy use of fertillizer which is made
from - you guessed it - oil.

Ted


  #3  
Old April 17th 06, 03:31 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Gasoline with Ethanol

"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in news:newscache$tdgpxi
:

>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> well regardless of the outcome, whether we like it or not, ethanol is
>> here to stay - since it is the replacement for the mtbe
>>
>> product which is being removed from present day gasoline due to ground
>> water contamination / etc..
>>
>> an article stated that the ethanol was to be mixed with gasoline just
>> prior to delivery to the pumps, due to "instability", and also it

cannot
>> be pumped through the pipeline system.
>>
>> ethanol is a product of the farming community and is trucked to areas
>> where it is to be mixed with gasoline for consumer use..
>>

>
> Yup, and the farmers get it by heavy use of fertillizer which is made
> from - you guessed it - oil.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
>


I am sick of seeing such misinformation here all the time. First plenty
of ethanol is rail shipped. and only the nitrogen fert. is made using oil
stock.(and any where manure is used as fert. much less additional
nitrogen is needed already) Also there are other sources of ethanol that
don`t use corn per say to make it, and the left over ddg has very good
feed value for food animals. They are makeing complete use of the corn
value not just makeing fuel. We have been using the 10% blend here for
almost 20 years now and other than the small mpg drop you will be hard
pressed to tell the diff. The only thing I can tell the diff on any more
is a couple of my older motorcycles that run too lean with it because
they were pushing the limit for emissions anyway. KB

--
Thunder Snake #9
"Protect" your rights or "lose" them.

  #4  
Old April 17th 06, 03:46 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Gasoline with Ethanol

>Jeep CJ's and YJ's up to 1991 plainly state 'not' to use any alcohol mix
>unless it's an emergency and then to only put enough in to get to real
>gas and early Jeep XJ Cherokee's state the engine might not run on it
>even...


As I mentioned previously ALL manufacturers (including jeep) approve
the use of a 10% (ten percent) blend of ethanol fuel. The use of
ethenol in higher percentages will have a negative effect on vehicles
as they are not tuned for that level of concentration. As for jeep
specifically saying that you are 'not' to use any alcohol mix unless
its an emergency is probably put in there because if you get in the
position where you need to use alcohol, you were dumb enough to use up
all your petrol and not leave enough for the return trip, so it would
be a good idea to tell the dumb person that using alcohol for extended
periods of time would be a bad idea. I think this is what they call
idiot proofing.
steve

  #5  
Old April 17th 06, 03:51 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Gasoline with Ethanol


> >
> > ethanol is a product of the farming community and is trucked to areas
> > where it is to be mixed with gasoline for consumer use..
> >

>
> Yup, and the farmers get it by heavy use of fertillizer which is made
> from - you guessed it - oil.


Cite please?

This is mindless propanganda spewing with little basis in fact.

Does corn production require fertilizer? Yes. Does some of it come
from petroleum based product? Yes. Are the other forms that are used
as well? Yes.

Next you are going to tell us that it is a net energy loss using all
sorts of incomplete statistics and numbers. For some reason
trucking/transportion/distribution counts when we talk about ethanol,
but not for oil. For some reason, distillation energy inputs are
relevent, but refinery inputs are not. Etc, etc.

I am being sarcastic here, but some of the "reports" I have seen are so
ridiculously biased it's almost funny.

JW

  #6  
Old April 17th 06, 04:11 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Gasoline with Ethanol

steve goodsworth wrote:
>
> >Jeep CJ's and YJ's up to 1991 plainly state 'not' to use any alcohol mix
> >unless it's an emergency and then to only put enough in to get to real
> >gas and early Jeep XJ Cherokee's state the engine might not run on it
> >even...

>
> As I mentioned previously ALL manufacturers (including jeep) approve
> the use of a 10% (ten percent) blend of ethanol fuel. The use of
> ethenol in higher percentages will have a negative effect on vehicles
> as they are not tuned for that level of concentration. As for jeep
> specifically saying that you are 'not' to use any alcohol mix unless
> its an emergency is probably put in there because if you get in the
> position where you need to use alcohol, you were dumb enough to use up
> all your petrol and not leave enough for the return trip, so it would
> be a good idea to tell the dumb person that using alcohol for extended
> periods of time would be a bad idea. I think this is what they call
> idiot proofing.
> steve


Sorry, you are wrong.

Jeep says not to use any mix of any amount no matter how many drying
agents they say they put in.

The owners manual calls it 'gasohol' or a 90% unleded with 10% ethanol.
It also states to not use any mixes with methanol.

My CJ's 258 bogs down for power on the 10% mix and my mileage goes from
350 miles per tank to less than 250 miles per tank. I have been 'stuck'
in an area on holidays a few times where all that's available is the
mix.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
  #7  
Old April 17th 06, 05:05 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Gasoline with Ethanol


>
> Jeep says not to use any mix of any amount no matter how many drying
> agents they say they put in.
>
> The owners manual calls it 'gasohol' or a 90% unleded with 10% ethanol.
> It also states to not use any mixes with methanol.
>
> My CJ's 258 bogs down for power on the 10% mix and my mileage goes from
> 350 miles per tank to less than 250 miles per tank. I have been 'stuck'
> in an area on holidays a few times where all that's available is the
> mix.


Must not be able to drive in most of the Midwest then.

I don't know about all states, but I know that in Iowa, Minnesota, and
Wisconsin all gas is E-10. I think both Dakotas are as well as Indiana
and Illinois.

E-10 does give lower gas mileage. Now that MTBE has been banned, I
don't think you will have much other choice however. I think all fuel
will be at least E-10 within the next few months(I have heard, but I
dont' remember off hand).

If your car is old enough, you can advance your timing a few(3-4)
degrees and gain most of the mileage losses back. Depending on your
car and driving style.

JW

  #8  
Old April 17th 06, 08:30 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Gasoline with Ethanol

eat your heart out.:--)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel

mho
vƒe

  #9  
Old April 18th 06, 04:42 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Gasoline with Ethanol


wrote:
> eat your heart out.:--)
>
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel
>
> mho
> vƒe


Out of date, but more complete than most I have seen.

National average is now 158.7 bu/ac. Nearly 13% above the quoted
average of 140. 2005 numbers are not out yet, but are probably higher
than that(2005 was a good year for most regions).

Many of Pimentel's arguments are based on old or flawed
information(please refer to:
http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_rooster.html).

I am not saying that ethanol is the final solution to our energy
problems, but it is a pretty good interim solution. At the very least,
we are buying our own product vs importing oil. That alone should be
worth something to us.

JW

  #10  
Old April 21st 06, 04:15 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default Gasoline with Ethanol

"Sorry, you are wrong.
Jeep says not to use any mix of any amount no matter how many drying
agents they say they put in.
The owners manual calls it 'gasohol' or a 90% unleded with 10% ethanol.
It also states to not use any mixes with methanol.
My CJ's 258 bogs down for power on the 10% mix and my mileage goes from
350 miles per tank to less than 250 miles per tank. I have been
'stuck'
in an area on holidays a few times where all that's available is the
mix."

Mike, i'm not doing this to antagonise you but my reports are coming
directly from the canadian department of energy and natural resources
canada. I have not read your jeep manual so I can't say for sure. I
own a 89 jeep cherokee laredo and my manual does not even mention
ethanol. I doubt that the millions of dollars spent on researching
this topic (not to mention my career)
If you still do not believe me I will send you a copy of the text i am
reading, as I am a distributer of the drivesmart program. You can send
an adress to me if you wish and I will mail it off to you as soon as
tomorrow.
steve

 




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