Driveshaft Installation Problem

Hello,

I've been having great difficulty correctly installing a reman.
driveshaft (Cardone #60-4003) on the driver's side of my '91 Civic Si.
When I install the driveshaft in the transmission it locks into place,
but it is not all the way in. It leaks oil. I replaced the passenger's
side driveshaft at the same time and that one went in without a hitch
and is not leaking at all.

I remember what the clearances between the driveshafts and the
transmission looked like before I began the work. The clearances looked
identical on both sides.Now there is a noticeable gap on the driver's
side, but the passenger side looks completely normal. I have some
pictures I took with a digital camera showing the clearances, but have
no where to post them.

I have taken a shaft around to shops for comparison to other units and
they appear to be identical, so I don't think I got a bad shaft. I have
new transmission seals I am going to install, but I doubt this is the
cause of this problem. An aquaintance said he had a driveshaft come out
of his transmission while driving and he "pounded it in" and that he has
put another 50k on the car and it is doing fine. I am hesitant to beat
on the shaft, but have been wasting a lot of time and energy on this and
am starting to think maybe I do need to force it in further.

Could the transmission some how be at fault for not allowing the shaft
in all the way? I somehow wedged my head under my car so I could look in
the tranny where the driveshaft is inserted with a flashlight, but
couldn't see any obvious problems. A 'service advisor' at the local
dealer I spoke to on the phone couldn't really think of how the tranny
would be at fault. Do old retaining clips get hung up inside? I am
really stuck on this, and for a while suspected I had a bad shaft (wrong
application). I may have to relinquish this to a repair shop or a dealer.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated,

Mark

sometimes the set ring can be real tight. unless the pinion in the diff
has been damaged by being driven without being seated properly, a good
sharp whack /is/ the way to make it slide fully home. and make sure the
seal's ok now you've run it in this condition too.

Chopface wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've been having great difficulty correctly installing a reman.
> driveshaft (Cardone #60-4003) on the driver's side of my '91 Civic Si.
> When I install the driveshaft in the transmission it locks into place,
> but it is not all the way in. It leaks oil. I replaced the passenger's
> side driveshaft at the same time and that one went in without a hitch
> and is not leaking at all.
>
> I remember what the clearances between the driveshafts and the
> transmission looked like before I began the work. The clearances looked
> identical on both sides.Now there is a noticeable gap on the driver's
> side, but the passenger side looks completely normal. I have some
> pictures I took with a digital camera showing the clearances, but have
> no where to post them.
>
> I have taken a shaft around to shops for comparison to other units and
> they appear to be identical, so I don't think I got a bad shaft. I have
> new transmission seals I am going to install, but I doubt this is the
> cause of this problem. An aquaintance said he had a driveshaft come out
> of his transmission while driving and he "pounded it in" and that he has
> put another 50k on the car and it is doing fine. I am hesitant to beat
> on the shaft, but have been wasting a lot of time and energy on this and
> am starting to think maybe I do need to force it in further.
>
> Could the transmission some how be at fault for not allowing the shaft
> in all the way? I somehow wedged my head under my car so I could look in
> the tranny where the driveshaft is inserted with a flashlight, but
> couldn't see any obvious problems. A 'service advisor' at the local
> dealer I spoke to on the phone couldn't really think of how the tranny
> would be at fault. Do old retaining clips get hung up inside? I am
> really stuck on this, and for a while suspected I had a bad shaft (wrong
> application). I may have to relinquish this to a repair shop or a dealer.
>
> Any ideas are greatly appreciated,
>
> Mark

"jim beam" > wrote in message
...
> Chopface wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I've been having great difficulty correctly installing a reman.
> > driveshaft (Cardone #60-4003) on the driver's side of my '91 Civic Si.
> > When I install the driveshaft in the transmission it locks into place,
> > but it is not all the way in. It leaks oil. I replaced the passenger's
> > side driveshaft at the same time and that one went in without a hitch
> > and is not leaking at all.
> >
> > I remember what the clearances between the driveshafts and the
> > transmission looked like before I began the work. The clearances
looked
> > identical on both sides.Now there is a noticeable gap on the driver's
> > side, but the passenger side looks completely normal. I have some
> > pictures I took with a digital camera showing the clearances, but have
> > no where to post them.
> >
> > I have taken a shaft around to shops for comparison to other units and
> > they appear to be identical, so I don't think I got a bad shaft. I
have
> > new transmission seals I am going to install, but I doubt this is the
> > cause of this problem. An aquaintance said he had a driveshaft come
out
> > of his transmission while driving and he "pounded it in" and that he
has
> > put another 50k on the car and it is doing fine. I am hesitant to beat
> > on the shaft, but have been wasting a lot of time and energy on this
and
> > am starting to think maybe I do need to force it in further.
> >
> > Could the transmission some how be at fault for not allowing the shaft
> > in all the way? I somehow wedged my head under my car so I could look
in
> > the tranny where the driveshaft is inserted with a flashlight, but
> > couldn't see any obvious problems. A 'service advisor' at the local
> > dealer I spoke to on the phone couldn't really think of how the tranny
> > would be at fault. Do old retaining clips get hung up inside? I am
> > really stuck on this, and for a while suspected I had a bad shaft
(wrong
> > application). I may have to relinquish this to a repair shop or a
dealer.
> >
> > Any ideas are greatly appreciated,
>
> sometimes the set ring can be real tight. unless the pinion in the diff
> has been damaged by being driven without being seated properly, a good
> sharp whack /is/ the way to make it slide fully home. and make sure the
> seal's ok now you've run it in this condition too.
>
I had a similar experience where the previous owner had to replace
the shaft/joint to pass the Vehicle Test (MOT) but the fitter hadn't
got the wheel end properly home into the hub.

On leaving an evening with a friend, I had just pulled away when I lost
drive and had to call the AA out to rescue me. The tow home on a rigid
bar was quite exciting but fortunately the there was no damage done to
the shaft and, after an inspection, my fitter neighbour had sufficient
strength to get it to seat and lock into place.


--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/ Wessex
Dorset UK Astro Society's Web pages, Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

Do you still have the old shaft? If I recall correctly on some honda shafts
the inner joint on one side only has splines half-way up.... perhaps they
have the wrong inner joint on that assembly.

"Chopface" > wrote in message
...
> Hello,
>
> I've been having great difficulty correctly installing a reman. driveshaft
> (Cardone #60-4003) on the driver's side of my '91 Civic Si. When I install
> the driveshaft in the transmission it locks into place, but it is not all
> the way in. It leaks oil. I replaced the passenger's side driveshaft at
> the same time and that one went in without a hitch and is not leaking at
> all.
>
> I remember what the clearances between the driveshafts and the
> transmission looked like before I began the work. The clearances looked
> identical on both sides.Now there is a noticeable gap on the driver's
> side, but the passenger side looks completely normal. I have some pictures
> I took with a digital camera showing the clearances, but have no where to
> post them.
>
> I have taken a shaft around to shops for comparison to other units and
> they appear to be identical, so I don't think I got a bad shaft. I have
> new transmission seals I am going to install, but I doubt this is the
> cause of this problem. An aquaintance said he had a driveshaft come out of
> his transmission while driving and he "pounded it in" and that he has put
> another 50k on the car and it is doing fine. I am hesitant to beat on the
> shaft, but have been wasting a lot of time and energy on this and am
> starting to think maybe I do need to force it in further.
>
> Could the transmission some how be at fault for not allowing the shaft in
> all the way? I somehow wedged my head under my car so I could look in the
> tranny where the driveshaft is inserted with a flashlight, but couldn't
> see any obvious problems. A 'service advisor' at the local dealer I spoke
> to on the phone couldn't really think of how the tranny would be at fault.
> Do old retaining clips get hung up inside? I am really stuck on this, and
> for a while suspected I had a bad shaft (wrong application). I may have to
> relinquish this to a repair shop or a dealer.
>
> Any ideas are greatly appreciated,
>
> Mark

jim beam wrote:
> sometimes the set ring can be real tight. unless the pinion in the diff
> has been damaged by being driven without being seated properly, a good
> sharp whack /is/ the way to make it slide fully home. and make sure the
> seal's ok now you've run it in this condition too.
>
> Chopface wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've been having great difficulty correctly installing a reman.
>> driveshaft (Cardone #60-4003) on the driver's side of my '91 Civic Si.
>> When I install the driveshaft in the transmission it locks into place,
>> but it is not all the way in. It leaks oil. I replaced the passenger's
>> side driveshaft at the same time and that one went in without a hitch
>> and is not leaking at all.
>>
>> I remember what the clearances between the driveshafts and the
>> transmission looked like before I began the work. The clearances
>> looked identical on both sides.Now there is a noticeable gap on the
>> driver's side, but the passenger side looks completely normal. I have
>> some pictures I took with a digital camera showing the clearances, but
>> have no where to post them.
>>
>> I have taken a shaft around to shops for comparison to other units and
>> they appear to be identical, so I don't think I got a bad shaft. I
>> have new transmission seals I am going to install, but I doubt this is
>> the cause of this problem. An aquaintance said he had a driveshaft
>> come out of his transmission while driving and he "pounded it in" and
>> that he has put another 50k on the car and it is doing fine. I am
>> hesitant to beat on the shaft, but have been wasting a lot of time and
>> energy on this and am starting to think maybe I do need to force it in
>> further.
>>
>> Could the transmission some how be at fault for not allowing the shaft
>> in all the way? I somehow wedged my head under my car so I could look
>> in the tranny where the driveshaft is inserted with a flashlight, but
>> couldn't see any obvious problems. A 'service advisor' at the local
>> dealer I spoke to on the phone couldn't really think of how the tranny
>> would be at fault. Do old retaining clips get hung up inside? I am
>> really stuck on this, and for a while suspected I had a bad shaft
>> (wrong application). I may have to relinquish this to a repair shop or
>> a dealer.
>>
>> Any ideas are greatly appreciated,
>>
>> Mark
>
>

Should I apply the force on the outter edge of the metal cylinder that
is part of the inboard joint? I can envision making a piece of wood with
a slot that could apply the force at two points on the circumference. I
would probably put something smooth and soft between the boot (covering
the edge of the cylinder) and the wood. The piece would look like this:

--------------------|
| <-----------------------
___________| |
| <---space for shaft |
|___________ |--- force applying area
| |
| <----------------------|
____________________|

I am guessing pounding on the wheel end of the shaft could be hard on
the outboard joint. Any criticism or other ideas?

Much thanks for the advice so far,

Mark

Maybe this will show up okay, I am not experienced in the arcane art of
ASCII.

> --------------------|
> | <-----------------------
> ___________| |
> | <---space for shaft |
> |___________ |--- force applying area
> | |
> | <----------------------|
> ____________________|
>

oh well

--------------------|
88888888888888888888| <----------
88888888888888888888| |
8888888| <---space for shaft |
8888888|____________ |-force applying area
88888888888888888888| |
88888888888888888888| <----------
88888888888888888888|
--------------------|

Chopface wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> sometimes the set ring can be real tight. unless the pinion in the
>> diff has been damaged by being driven without being seated properly, a
>> good sharp whack /is/ the way to make it slide fully home. and make
>> sure the seal's ok now you've run it in this condition too.
>>
>> Chopface wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I've been having great difficulty correctly installing a reman.
>>> driveshaft (Cardone #60-4003) on the driver's side of my '91 Civic
>>> Si. When I install the driveshaft in the transmission it locks into
>>> place, but it is not all the way in. It leaks oil. I replaced the
>>> passenger's side driveshaft at the same time and that one went in
>>> without a hitch and is not leaking at all.
>>>
>>> I remember what the clearances between the driveshafts and the
>>> transmission looked like before I began the work. The clearances
>>> looked identical on both sides.Now there is a noticeable gap on the
>>> driver's side, but the passenger side looks completely normal. I have
>>> some pictures I took with a digital camera showing the clearances,
>>> but have no where to post them.
>>>
>>> I have taken a shaft around to shops for comparison to other units
>>> and they appear to be identical, so I don't think I got a bad shaft.
>>> I have new transmission seals I am going to install, but I doubt this
>>> is the cause of this problem. An aquaintance said he had a driveshaft
>>> come out of his transmission while driving and he "pounded it in" and
>>> that he has put another 50k on the car and it is doing fine. I am
>>> hesitant to beat on the shaft, but have been wasting a lot of time
>>> and energy on this and am starting to think maybe I do need to force
>>> it in further.
>>>
>>> Could the transmission some how be at fault for not allowing the
>>> shaft in all the way? I somehow wedged my head under my car so I
>>> could look in the tranny where the driveshaft is inserted with a
>>> flashlight, but couldn't see any obvious problems. A 'service
>>> advisor' at the local dealer I spoke to on the phone couldn't really
>>> think of how the tranny would be at fault. Do old retaining clips get
>>> hung up inside? I am really stuck on this, and for a while suspected
>>> I had a bad shaft (wrong application). I may have to relinquish this
>>> to a repair shop or a dealer.
>>>
>>> Any ideas are greatly appreciated,
>>>
>>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>
> Should I apply the force on the outter edge of the metal cylinder that
> is part of the inboard joint? I can envision making a piece of wood with
> a slot that could apply the force at two points on the circumference. I
> would probably put something smooth and soft between the boot (covering
> the edge of the cylinder) and the wood. The piece would look like this:
>
> --------------------|
> | <-----------------------
> ___________| |
> | <---space for shaft |
> |___________ |--- force applying area
> | |
> | <----------------------|
> ____________________|
>
> I am guessing pounding on the wheel end of the shaft could be hard on
> the outboard joint. Any criticism or other ideas?
>
> Much thanks for the advice so far,
>
> Mark

i've always just pounded on the wheel end of the shaft, making sure it's
properly aligned first. strictly speaking, because there are bearings,
you shouldn't do this because of the potential to damage them, but in
reality, this treatment is no worse than they see in service. use a
dead blow hammer or a block of wood and lump hammer to do the work.
that really should work. if not, you need to very carefully inspect for
damage in the diff pinion. if you're certain that's ok, you can proceed
to the emergency final step.

you can try the arrangement you're indicating above, but the problem is
damaging the boot. to avoid this, the d/s has to be disassembled.
that's not a great idea but it works! just remove the sealing band from
the fat end of the boot, CAREFULLY remove the cup [making sure you don't
lose bearings or grease], position & drive into diff, then reassemble
shaft in place. need a new band.

if you still have it, disassemble the old shaft first so you're familiar
with it's contents before trying this solution.

jim beam wrote:
> Chopface wrote:
>
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> sometimes the set ring can be real tight. unless the pinion in the
>>> diff has been damaged by being driven without being seated properly,
>>> a good sharp whack /is/ the way to make it slide fully home. and
>>> make sure the seal's ok now you've run it in this condition too.
>>>
>>> Chopface wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I've been having great difficulty correctly installing a reman.
>>>> driveshaft (Cardone #60-4003) on the driver's side of my '91 Civic
>>>> Si. When I install the driveshaft in the transmission it locks into
>>>> place, but it is not all the way in. It leaks oil. I replaced the
>>>> passenger's side driveshaft at the same time and that one went in
>>>> without a hitch and is not leaking at all.
>>>>
>>>> I remember what the clearances between the driveshafts and the
>>>> transmission looked like before I began the work. The clearances
>>>> looked identical on both sides.Now there is a noticeable gap on the
>>>> driver's side, but the passenger side looks completely normal. I
>>>> have some pictures I took with a digital camera showing the
>>>> clearances, but have no where to post them.
>>>>
>>>> I have taken a shaft around to shops for comparison to other units
>>>> and they appear to be identical, so I don't think I got a bad shaft.
>>>> I have new transmission seals I am going to install, but I doubt
>>>> this is the cause of this problem. An aquaintance said he had a
>>>> driveshaft come out of his transmission while driving and he
>>>> "pounded it in" and that he has put another 50k on the car and it is
>>>> doing fine. I am hesitant to beat on the shaft, but have been
>>>> wasting a lot of time and energy on this and am starting to think
>>>> maybe I do need to force it in further.
>>>>
>>>> Could the transmission some how be at fault for not allowing the
>>>> shaft in all the way? I somehow wedged my head under my car so I
>>>> could look in the tranny where the driveshaft is inserted with a
>>>> flashlight, but couldn't see any obvious problems. A 'service
>>>> advisor' at the local dealer I spoke to on the phone couldn't really
>>>> think of how the tranny would be at fault. Do old retaining clips
>>>> get hung up inside? I am really stuck on this, and for a while
>>>> suspected I had a bad shaft (wrong application). I may have to
>>>> relinquish this to a repair shop or a dealer.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas are greatly appreciated,
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Should I apply the force on the outter edge of the metal cylinder that
>> is part of the inboard joint? I can envision making a piece of wood
>> with a slot that could apply the force at two points on the
>> circumference. I would probably put something smooth and soft between
>> the boot (covering the edge of the cylinder) and the wood. The piece
>> would look like this:
>>
>> --------------------|
>> | <-----------------------
>> ___________| |
>> | <---space for shaft |
>> |___________ |--- force applying area
>> | |
>> | <----------------------|
>> ____________________|
>>
>> I am guessing pounding on the wheel end of the shaft could be hard on
>> the outboard joint. Any criticism or other ideas?
>>
>> Much thanks for the advice so far,
>>
>> Mark
>
>
> i've always just pounded on the wheel end of the shaft, making sure it's
> properly aligned first. strictly speaking, because there are bearings,
> you shouldn't do this because of the potential to damage them, but in
> reality, this treatment is no worse than they see in service. use a
> dead blow hammer or a block of wood and lump hammer to do the work. that
> really should work. if not, you need to very carefully inspect for
> damage in the diff pinion. if you're certain that's ok, you can proceed
> to the emergency final step.
>
> you can try the arrangement you're indicating above, but the problem is
> damaging the boot. to avoid this, the d/s has to be disassembled.
> that's not a great idea but it works! just remove the sealing band from
> the fat end of the boot, CAREFULLY remove the cup [making sure you don't
> lose bearings or grease], position & drive into diff, then reassemble
> shaft in place. need a new band.
>
> if you still have it, disassemble the old shaft first so you're familiar
> with it's contents before trying this solution.
>

Thanks a lot Jim, that sucker is going to go in this weekend.

Mark