GM joins Ford in jettisoning the minivan market

>
> Not to cross swords with another thread, but the Impala once again
> proves that front-wheel drive and police driving DO NOT MIX. The
> drivetrain isn't strong enough, and the handling isn't safe enough.
> Dodge never even bothered to try to certify the
> Intrepid/Concorde/Vision for that very reason, although a lot of
> police departments did buy them and use them for light-duty work.
>
> It will be very interesting to see how the Charger plays out as a cop
> car. The 3.5L V6 Charger Police Package accelerates faster than the v8
> Ford Interceptor, and the 5.7L V8 Charger Police Package is amazing.
> Ford has had the market to themselves WAY too long, and the
> Interceptor's pathetic performance is showing.
>

I have a cool book about Mopar police packages over the years. The car I
liked the most that they show is a 60's era Dart wagon with a 170 slant 6
one barrel for patrol duties. The police slant six added beefier
bearings. At the other end of the mopar police package performance
spectrum was the 440ci 4 barrel cars for highway patrol/interceptor
duties. And every engine in between was also used -- 225 slant 6, 318ci,
360, 400, 440 in various flavors of carburettion. I dont think they put
the 340 in cop cars. They didn't put the 426 Hemi in cop cars back then.

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You mean I'm agreeing with you that Camrys number one position has little to
do with quality? ')

mike


"Spam away" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Mike Hunter" > wrote:
>
We all know volume sold has little to do with quality,
> it's all about lower initial cost for most buyers>>

I guess that explains why then Camry is the number one selling car in the
>> US.
>
> You're admitting it!

Mike Hunter wrote:

> You mean I'm agreeing with you that Camrys number one position has little
> to
> do with quality? ')
>
> mike
>
Same as Windows is the #1 OS

That may be your opinion, Mike. I know what we use here, and its mostly
Impala's.

"Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
...
> That may be your opinion but when I owned my formed fleet business
> numerous departments particularly city departments, bought the Chevy and
> Dodge FWD cars because they were available for a few thousands less than
> the Interceptor and got better fuel mileage Service experience soon
> shows the maintenance and repair cost vis a v the Interceder far outweigh
> the lower purchase price and when they bought more cars they returned to
> the Ford. Ford 'owns' the police car business, by at least eight to one at
> well over 100,000 units, over the current Doge RWD cars and the Chevy..
> That surely slows which car department prefer.
>
>
> mike
>
>
> "80 Knight" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Picasso" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>>> Impalas make a bad taxi, and an even worse cop car.
>>>>
>>>> You know this from experience, I presume? Officer's here love them.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what officers you're talking about. The all refuse to
>>> drive them here unless there are no crown victorias left. The highway
>>> police won't even touch them anymore, they had one dose of them, then
>>> the next year i saw them all go through the car auction 1 year old with
>>> 50-60,000 kms on it, while all the vics at the auction were 3 years old
>>> with 200-225,000 on them.
>>
>> I'm sorry, but the Impala is a great car. And, like I said, the Officers
>> down here (Ontario, Canada) love them. We have more of them then we do
>> Crown Vic's.
>>
>
>

Is the dodge a v8? Dodge has just never made a real quality product...
i do like the looks of the new magnums... but are they built well?

Mike Hunter wrote:
> That may be your opinion but when I owned my formed fleet business numerous
> departments particularly city departments, bought the Chevy and Dodge FWD
> cars because they were available for a few thousands less than the
> Interceptor and got better fuel mileage Service experience soon shows the
> maintenance and repair cost vis a v the Interceder far outweigh the lower
> purchase price and when they bought more cars they returned to the Ford.
> Ford 'owns' the police car business, by at least eight to one at well over
> 100,000 units, over the current Doge RWD cars and the Chevy.. That surely
> slows which car department prefer.
>
>
> mike
>
>
> "80 Knight" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Picasso" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>>> Impalas make a bad taxi, and an even worse cop car.
>>>> You know this from experience, I presume? Officer's here love them.
>>> I'm not sure what officers you're talking about. The all refuse to drive
>>> them here unless there are no crown victorias left. The highway police
>>> won't even touch them anymore, they had one dose of them, then the next
>>> year i saw them all go through the car auction 1 year old with 50-60,000
>>> kms on it, while all the vics at the auction were 3 years old with
>>> 200-225,000 on them.
>> I'm sorry, but the Impala is a great car. And, like I said, the Officers
>> down here (Ontario, Canada) love them. We have more of them then we do
>> Crown Vic's.
>>
>
>

80 Knight wrote:
> That may be your opinion, Mike. I know what we use here, and its mostly
> Impala's.


Could be that they haven't completely switched over yet. Takes awhile
for the true cost to be realized.

Same at work, they thought they'd be saving bundles with the ford ranger
instead of the f150s... wrong... 3 transmissions in 7 trucks died
before 100,000 KMS, 1 just over 200,000. Two motors before 100, and one
at 250,000 KMS.

C. E. White wrote:
> "Picasso" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The Honda, Toyota, Nissan dealers don't stock many vehicles, now i'm sure
>> they also sell less, so maybe this is relative.
>
> Where are you getting this idea? When I bought a Nissan Frontier earlier
> this year, I did a bit of shopping and everyone's lot was stuffed with
> pick-ups. If anything, the Toyota dealers had many more Tundras on the lot,
> in relationship to sales, than Ford had F150s. The Nissan dealers had
> Frontiers and Titan everywhere. The Nissan dealer nearest my house has at
> least 50 Frontiers on the lot right now (and this is on the lot where I can
> see them - he has storage lots out in the country I don't see).
>
>> Does FORD do anything to control inventory... every ford lot i've been to
>> is full of vehicles.... many options and colors etc, of all vehicles, even
>> had 10 mustangs at one of the two ford dealers in a city of 45,000 ppl.
>> You head over to the other dealer, they had 6. The toyota dealer had only
>> 1 Tundra and no tacomas. Is this because they don't sell any trucks,
>> probably not.
>
> Where are you? When I was shopping for a Tundra, the dealer had no problem
> rolling out one with the options I wanted from the "back" lot. When my Son
> was shopping for a Mustang, the dealer had to get one from 100 miles away to
> match his wants. The dealer also had plenty of Tacomas, but they came in too
> varieties, stripped 4 cylinder manual models, and completely loaded up and
> totally useless for a work truck models. I actually wanted a Tacoma instead
> of a Tundra, but they had no Tacomas with the equipment I wanted - they were
> either ridiculously over-equipped (and therefore ridiculously over-priced)
> or stripped to the bone (but still ridiculously over-priced). I could find
> plenty of Tundras set up as a work truck with the equipment I wanted. For
> some reason, Toyota wasn't building any Tacomas with similar equipment. I
> assume they figure the only people who buy Tacomas are fleets looking for
> strippers and boy racer looking for big wheels, big stereos, and lots of
> chrome. They had plenty of those choking the lot.
>
>> You don't see toyota, honda, nissan advertising year end clearance
>> sales... ford does this almost steadily for about 4 months.
>
> Again where do you live? You don't have Toyotaton? Around here it seem like
> "Toyotaton" is an 11 month event. When Toyota isbn't running ads with stupid
> F150 comparison (like my Tundra can haul 6'6" boards - your Ford can only
> haul 6' 3" boards), they are screaming about the huge savings, great
> discounts, rebates, etc. If you listened to the Toyota ads, you would think
> they were giving Tundras away (at least till you try to buy one and they
> slap on the "dealer fees" that make the price non-competitive). Nissan is
> even worse. It seems like they have been running the "Year End Sales Event"
> ads since last January.
>
>> Just wondering if there is any inventory control, i am in the lumber
>> market, and controlling inventory is the FIRST priority, especially in a
>> failing market.
>
> Why do you think Ford is shutting down so many US plans and offering buy-out
> to 30+% of their work force.
>
> Ed
>
>

I'm not really slamming ford or promoting Toyota/Honda here.

I live in New Brunswick, Canada. And I can't udnerstand why there are
two ford dealers, two chev dealers, and two chrysler dealers... one
closed, and i figured well ones enough anyway... then another opened.

Honda, Toyota, Nissan all have just one dealer. Ford should do the same
-- they wouldn't have to supply so many damn vehicles to sit on a lot.

Then most people check prices, and end up going up the river about an
hour to another well known ford dealer.

who wrote:
> In article >,
> "Mike Hunter" > wrote:
>
>> That may be but Ford still sells more F150s in about a month or so than
>> Toyota sells Tundras in a year
>
> Still coming in from the back seat on volume sold eh!
> We all know volume sold has little to do with quality,
> it's all about lower initial cost for most buyers.

$10,000 difference in price can do a lot of repairs.

"Picasso" > wrote in message
...
> 80 Knight wrote:
>> That may be your opinion, Mike. I know what we use here, and its mostly
>> Impala's.
>
>
> Could be that they haven't completely switched over yet. Takes awhile for
> the true cost to be realized.
>
> Same at work, they thought they'd be saving bundles with the ford ranger
> instead of the f150s... wrong... 3 transmissions in 7 trucks died before
> 100,000 KMS, 1 just over 200,000. Two motors before 100, and one at
> 250,000 KMS.

We do also use Crown Vic's, but like I said, most of our cars are Impala's,
and have been for many years. We used to use the old 80's style Caprice's
back in the day. I guess it helps that we make the Impala's here as well.
:-P

"Picasso" > wrote in message
...
> C. E. White wrote:
>> "Picasso" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> The Honda, Toyota, Nissan dealers don't stock many vehicles, now i'm
>>> sure they also sell less, so maybe this is relative.
>>
>> Where are you getting this idea? When I bought a Nissan Frontier earlier
>> this year, I did a bit of shopping and everyone's lot was stuffed with
>> pick-ups. If anything, the Toyota dealers had many more Tundras on the
>> lot, in relationship to sales, than Ford had F150s. The Nissan dealers
>> had Frontiers and Titan everywhere. The Nissan dealer nearest my house
>> has at least 50 Frontiers on the lot right now (and this is on the lot
>> where I can see them - he has storage lots out in the country I don't
>> see).
>>
>>> Does FORD do anything to control inventory... every ford lot i've been
>>> to is full of vehicles.... many options and colors etc, of all vehicles,
>>> even had 10 mustangs at one of the two ford dealers in a city of 45,000
>>> ppl. You head over to the other dealer, they had 6. The toyota dealer
>>> had only 1 Tundra and no tacomas. Is this because they don't sell any
>>> trucks, probably not.
>>
>> Where are you? When I was shopping for a Tundra, the dealer had no
>> problem rolling out one with the options I wanted from the "back" lot.
>> When my Son was shopping for a Mustang, the dealer had to get one from
>> 100 miles away to match his wants. The dealer also had plenty of Tacomas,
>> but they came in too varieties, stripped 4 cylinder manual models, and
>> completely loaded up and totally useless for a work truck models. I
>> actually wanted a Tacoma instead of a Tundra, but they had no Tacomas
>> with the equipment I wanted - they were either ridiculously over-equipped
>> (and therefore ridiculously over-priced) or stripped to the bone (but
>> still ridiculously over-priced). I could find plenty of Tundras set up as
>> a work truck with the equipment I wanted. For some reason, Toyota wasn't
>> building any Tacomas with similar equipment. I assume they figure the
>> only people who buy Tacomas are fleets looking for strippers and boy
>> racer looking for big wheels, big stereos, and lots of chrome. They had
>> plenty of those choking the lot.
>>
>>> You don't see toyota, honda, nissan advertising year end clearance
>>> sales... ford does this almost steadily for about 4 months.
>>
>> Again where do you live? You don't have Toyotaton? Around here it seem
>> like "Toyotaton" is an 11 month event. When Toyota isbn't running ads
>> with stupid F150 comparison (like my Tundra can haul 6'6" boards - your
>> Ford can only haul 6' 3" boards), they are screaming about the huge
>> savings, great discounts, rebates, etc. If you listened to the Toyota
>> ads, you would think they were giving Tundras away (at least till you try
>> to buy one and they slap on the "dealer fees" that make the price
>> non-competitive). Nissan is even worse. It seems like they have been
>> running the "Year End Sales Event" ads since last January.
>>
>>> Just wondering if there is any inventory control, i am in the lumber
>>> market, and controlling inventory is the FIRST priority, especially in a
>>> failing market.
>>
>> Why do you think Ford is shutting down so many US plans and offering
>> buy-out to 30+% of their work force.
>>
>> Ed

Huh? This has nothing to do with vehicle quality. You gotta get a grip Ed.
It has EVERYTHING to do with financial management and the fact that the japs
have never played on the same field as the Big 3. Soon, there will be no
more guys with grade 12 educations slapping bumpers on cars for $25/hour.
Thank God. But it may be too late.

B