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#1
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My Si has a DX motor!
I think I posted about this when my timing belt was changed a couple of
years ago; the short version was that my usual mechanic told me after he'd finished the work that he thought my 90 CRX Si had a 1.5L engine instead of the usual 1.6, because the timing belt for a 1.6 didn't fit, but the belt from a 1.5 did. He claimed to have called a friend at a Honda dealer who told him that 1.5L engines had been installed in some Si models. I asked around, but was never able to find anyone else to confirm this, and since the car was running well, I eventually just chalked it up as a curiosity. Fast forward to several weeks ago, when I had (among other things) what I thought was a leaking rear main seal looked at, but which turned out to be a leaking oil pan gasket. In the process of trying to confirm where the leak was actually originating, the dealer where I had the work done cleaned off a fair amount of the gunk that had accumulated on the various surfaces of the engine. Yesterday I was poking around under the hood while attempting to change a burned-out low beam, when I happened to shine a light on the front of the block, and there it was, plain as day: D15B2, otherwise known as the motor used in DX models. Sis of this vintage are supposed to have a D16A6. The difference is a longer stroke, slightly higher compression ratio, and, depending on who's counting, between 15-20 horsepower. I bought the car from an Acura dealer in 1992 with roughly 20K miles on it. I have no idea whether they knowingly sold me the car with a DX motor, or whether it came to them that way and nobody noticed it before it went out on the lot; it's not exactly a difference that's easily spotted visually unless you examine the stamp on the block. But either way, I'm not too pleased. I've been thinking more and more about an engine swap lately, but the reality of taking that path is that it'll cost a lot more for me to do that than it would to be patient and keep my eyes open for a reasonably clean, non-riced CRX that's already had a B16 swapped in by someone who knew what they were doing. Dave |
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#2
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My Si has a DX motor!
Dave Garrett wrote:
> I think I posted about this when my timing belt was changed a couple of > years ago; the short version was that my usual mechanic told me after > he'd finished the work that he thought my 90 CRX Si had a 1.5L engine > instead of the usual 1.6, because the timing belt for a 1.6 didn't fit, > but the belt from a 1.5 did. He claimed to have called a friend at a > Honda dealer who told him that 1.5L engines had been installed in some > Si models. <snip> that's b.s. the only way this happens is either if the car is crashed/stolen parted out, then later rebuilt again with the cheap motor, or the d16 blew and a cheapo d15 block was used as replacement. whatever the deal, it's /way/ too late to do anything about the person that did the work. if you want you can get d16's as jdm replacements for not an incredible amount of money. depending on local emissions laws, you can maybe get away with a zc motor - some of those are sweet - cheap too. |
#3
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My Si has a DX motor!
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article >, > Dave Garrett > wrote: > >> Yesterday I was poking around under the hood while attempting to change >> a burned-out low beam, when I happened to shine a light on the front of >> the block, and there it was, plain as day: D15B2, otherwise known as the >> motor used in DX models. Sis of this vintage are supposed to have a >> D16A6. The difference is a longer stroke, slightly higher compression >> ratio, and, depending on who's counting, between 15-20 horsepower. >> >> I bought the car from an Acura dealer in 1992 with roughly 20K miles on >> it. > > And a bogus Si sticker from the previous ricer owner. > check the vehicle reg docs? i doubt it's just a sticker job - the conversion from 2pfi to 4pfi is non-trivial. |
#4
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My Si has a DX motor!
"Dave Garrett" > wrote in message
... >I think I posted about this when my timing belt was changed a couple of > years ago; the short version was that my usual mechanic told me after > he'd finished the work that he thought my 90 CRX Si had a 1.5L engine > instead of the usual 1.6, because the timing belt for a 1.6 didn't fit, > but the belt from a 1.5 did. He claimed to have called a friend at a > Honda dealer who told him that 1.5L engines had been installed in some > Si models. I asked around, but was never able to find anyone else to > confirm this, and since the car was running well, I eventually just > chalked it up as a curiosity. > > Fast forward to several weeks ago, when I had (among other things) what > I thought was a leaking rear main seal looked at, but which turned out > to be a leaking oil pan gasket. In the process of trying to confirm > where the leak was actually originating, the dealer where I had the work > done cleaned off a fair amount of the gunk that had accumulated on the > various surfaces of the engine. > > Yesterday I was poking around under the hood while attempting to change > a burned-out low beam, when I happened to shine a light on the front of > the block, and there it was, plain as day: D15B2, otherwise known as the > motor used in DX models. Sis of this vintage are supposed to have a > D16A6. The difference is a longer stroke, slightly higher compression > ratio, and, depending on who's counting, between 15-20 horsepower. > > I bought the car from an Acura dealer in 1992 with roughly 20K miles on > it. I have no idea whether they knowingly sold me the car with a DX > motor, or whether it came to them that way and nobody noticed it before > it went out on the lot; it's not exactly a difference that's easily > spotted visually unless you examine the stamp on the block. But either > way, I'm not too pleased. I've been thinking more and more about an > engine swap lately, but the reality of taking that path is that it'll > cost a lot more for me to do that than it would to be patient and keep > my eyes open for a reasonably clean, non-riced CRX that's already had a > B16 swapped in by someone who knew what they were doing. > > Dave > Oddly, it may be that way from the factory. There is nothing unusual about smaller components being substituted - why not engines? Okay, sometimes specific engines are offered as extra cost options, and in that case it would be fraudulent to supply a motor that wasn't what the buyer paid for. Otherwise, if the purchase contract didn't specify the engine there isn't a strict legal issue, is there? (I am not a lawyer.) I recall a while back a commotion about Oldsmobile engines being used in Cadillacs. I don't know if anything came of that. Mike |
#5
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My Si has a DX motor!
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 04:44:24 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Dave Garrett" > wrote in message > ... >>I think I posted about this when my timing belt was changed a couple of >> years ago; the short version was that my usual mechanic told me after >> he'd finished the work that he thought my 90 CRX Si had a 1.5L engine >> instead of the usual 1.6, because the timing belt for a 1.6 didn't fit, >> but the belt from a 1.5 did. He claimed to have called a friend at a >> Honda dealer who told him that 1.5L engines had been installed in some >> Si models. I asked around, but was never able to find anyone else to >> confirm this, and since the car was running well, I eventually just >> chalked it up as a curiosity. >> >> Fast forward to several weeks ago, when I had (among other things) what >> I thought was a leaking rear main seal looked at, but which turned out >> to be a leaking oil pan gasket. In the process of trying to confirm >> where the leak was actually originating, the dealer where I had the work >> done cleaned off a fair amount of the gunk that had accumulated on the >> various surfaces of the engine. >> >> Yesterday I was poking around under the hood while attempting to change >> a burned-out low beam, when I happened to shine a light on the front of >> the block, and there it was, plain as day: D15B2, otherwise known as the >> motor used in DX models. Sis of this vintage are supposed to have a >> D16A6. The difference is a longer stroke, slightly higher compression >> ratio, and, depending on who's counting, between 15-20 horsepower. >> >> I bought the car from an Acura dealer in 1992 with roughly 20K miles on >> it. I have no idea whether they knowingly sold me the car with a DX >> motor, or whether it came to them that way and nobody noticed it before >> it went out on the lot; it's not exactly a difference that's easily >> spotted visually unless you examine the stamp on the block. But either >> way, I'm not too pleased. I've been thinking more and more about an >> engine swap lately, but the reality of taking that path is that it'll >> cost a lot more for me to do that than it would to be patient and keep >> my eyes open for a reasonably clean, non-riced CRX that's already had a >> B16 swapped in by someone who knew what they were doing. >> >> Dave >> > > Oddly, it may be that way from the factory. There is nothing unusual about > smaller components being substituted - why not engines? Okay, sometimes > specific engines are offered as extra cost options, and in that case it > would be fraudulent to supply a motor that wasn't what the buyer paid for. > Otherwise, if the purchase contract didn't specify the engine there isn't a > strict legal issue, is there? (I am not a lawyer.) > > I recall a while back a commotion about Oldsmobile engines being used in > Cadillacs. I don't know if anything came of that. If you're not getting the larger engine, you're not getting an Si. The Si is the performance package. If I would have found a 1.6L under the hood of my Si, instead of the 2.0L it is advertised as, you can damn well believe the car would have been back at the dealer right away. This person doesn't have such recourse, likely, due to the age of the car, and the time since it was purchased, but I'd still be mad as hell. |
#6
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My Si has a DX motor!
Dave Garrett > wrote in
: > > Yesterday I was poking around under the hood while attempting to > change a burned-out low beam, when I happened to shine a light on the > front of the block, and there it was, plain as day: D15B2, otherwise > known as the motor used in DX models. Sis of this vintage are supposed > to have a D16A6. What are the first eight digits of your VIN? This will tell you what engine the car originally shipped with. What country are you in? Different engines were used in different markets. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
#7
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My Si has a DX motor!
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#8
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My Si has a DX motor!
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#10
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My Si has a DX motor!
Dave Garrett wrote:
> In article > , > says... >> Dave Garrett wrote: > >>> I think I posted about this when my timing belt was changed a couple of >>> years ago; the short version was that my usual mechanic told me after >>> he'd finished the work that he thought my 90 CRX Si had a 1.5L engine >>> instead of the usual 1.6, because the timing belt for a 1.6 didn't fit, >>> but the belt from a 1.5 did. He claimed to have called a friend at a >>> Honda dealer who told him that 1.5L engines had been installed in some >>> Si models. >> <snip> >> >> that's b.s. the only way this happens is either if the car is >> crashed/stolen parted out, then later rebuilt again with the cheap >> motor, or the d16 blew and a cheapo d15 block was used as replacement. >> whatever the deal, it's /way/ too late to do anything about the person >> that did the work. if you want you can get d16's as jdm replacements >> for not an incredible amount of money. depending on local emissions >> laws, you can maybe get away with a zc motor - some of those are sweet - >> cheap too. > > I thought it sounded like BS at the time too. I don't know enough about > the details of the differences between the two engines - do they use the > same block, or is it significantly different? i don't do rebuilds so i don't know for sure, but afaik, the blocks and heads are identical. the crank is slightly longer stroke [to give the extra few cc's of capacity] and the cam is a little more punchy, but other than that, they're the same. > > And yeah, I'm certainly not expecting to have any recourse at this late > date other than never patronizing that dealer again. If I'm going to do > a swap, I'm inclined to go for a B16 for a significant power boost. But > as you're probably well aware, a B16 transplant isn't nearly as easy a > bolt-in as a ZC - off the top of my head, you need new motor mounts, are you sure? > new > axles, are you sure? > a wiring subharness to connect the VTEC controller, a new ECU, yes & yes. > a > new gauge cluster, not if you use a cable transmission. > and a new AC bracket (where I live, not having AC in > the summer is a significant problem, so I need to keep it functioning). > That's probably at least $2K in parts before you even get started on the > labor to install everything. Hence my earlier comment about trying to > find another CRX that's already had a B16 professionally installed. define "professional"! if you've had this crx for a while and know its history, stick with it. otherwise you have no idea what you're getting into. the most important thing is to find someone to do the swap that's not going to rip you. by the sound of it, half the stuff you've just mentioned is coming from a source that's trying to set you up to put their kids through college. find out if the zc will pass your local emissions laws, then do the zc swap. that motor is cheap, hella fast [160hp from a 1600 motor], and a straight bolt-in. then you can keep everything else. and be careful who you ask!!! talk with a smog person. here in ca, we have "test only" stations that are forbidden to do work on the vehicles so have no interest in trying to sell you on stuff you don't need. my local guy is a honda fan and was delighted to me about what i can and can't do for egr systems if i want to do mods without getting the vehicle refereed. one last thing: if you want to be cheap, just get the si cam and swap it into your d15. you're only losing 97cc's. you could probably do that yourself. better yet, get an hot aftermarket cam. no problems with a/c, vtec, transmission, mounts, etc., etc. do it with the engine still in the car. |
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