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Marine 454 Problems/Questions



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 17th 05, 05:55 PM
Robert C. Bosworth
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Posts: n/a
Default Marine 454 Problems/Questions

I have a 454 that was marinized by PCM in my 1989 Supra Saltare ski boat.
Ever since I purchased the boat last year it has been running horribly at
WOT -- this question is about something different however. Stick with me --
it may get long. I'm a complete amateur at this stuff so I'm going to
include everything I can think of and maybe someone can help me.

Beginning the other day the engine exhaust began smelling really bad.
People on the back of the boat were complaining of the exhaust fumes making
them feel sick -- the first time this had happened. Later that day the
engine developed a really loud clicking from the passenger side front of the
engine -- it became much worse as the rpms were increased. It was clear
that it had something to do with the valve-train so me and a buddy took the
headers and valve covers off, and found a rocker arm that was much looser
(had more lash in it?) at DCT. The valves still seemed to be fine, we could
actuate them by hand and they felt correct. The pushrod on that cylinder
was fine. The funny part was that all of the other rocker-arms were
tightened down on the adjustment studs the exact same amount -- to take the
lash out of this noisy rocker-arm I would have to tighten it down 2-3
threads further then any of the others -- this just doesn't seem right to me
that one rocker arm needs to be adjusted tighter then the others.

What would cause this? I've heard that the rocker-arm tightening studs can
begin to pull out and could have to be machined, and I've heard that I may
have had a lifter collapse. What is my next step to try and resolve this
problem?

Thanks for any and all help.

Rob


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  #2  
Old June 17th 05, 08:32 PM
Woody
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Posts: n/a
Default

You answered your own question. Pull the lifter...


"Robert C. Bosworth" > wrote in message
...
>I have a 454 that was marinized by PCM in my 1989 Supra Saltare ski boat.
>Ever since I purchased the boat last year it has been running horribly at
>WOT -- this question is about something different however. Stick with
>me -- it may get long. I'm a complete amateur at this stuff so I'm going
>to include everything I can think of and maybe someone can help me.
>
> Beginning the other day the engine exhaust began smelling really bad.
> People on the back of the boat were complaining of the exhaust fumes
> making them feel sick -- the first time this had happened. Later that day
> the engine developed a really loud clicking from the passenger side front
> of the engine -- it became much worse as the rpms were increased. It was
> clear that it had something to do with the valve-train so me and a buddy
> took the headers and valve covers off, and found a rocker arm that was
> much looser (had more lash in it?) at DCT. The valves still seemed to be
> fine, we could actuate them by hand and they felt correct. The pushrod on
> that cylinder was fine. The funny part was that all of the other
> rocker-arms were tightened down on the adjustment studs the exact same
> amount -- to take the lash out of this noisy rocker-arm I would have to
> tighten it down 2-3 threads further then any of the others -- this just
> doesn't seem right to me that one rocker arm needs to be adjusted tighter
> then the others.
>
> What would cause this? I've heard that the rocker-arm tightening studs
> can begin to pull out and could have to be machined, and I've heard that I
> may have had a lifter collapse. What is my next step to try and resolve
> this problem?
>
> Thanks for any and all help.
>
> Rob
>



  #3  
Old June 17th 05, 08:39 PM
Robert C. Bosworth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Could you give me a quick idea how I can do this, what I should look to be
broken, and how it can be fixed?

Thanks,

Rob
"Woody" > wrote in message
m...
> You answered your own question. Pull the lifter...
>
>
> "Robert C. Bosworth" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I have a 454 that was marinized by PCM in my 1989 Supra Saltare ski boat.
>>Ever since I purchased the boat last year it has been running horribly at
>>WOT -- this question is about something different however. Stick with
>>me -- it may get long. I'm a complete amateur at this stuff so I'm going
>>to include everything I can think of and maybe someone can help me.
>>
>> Beginning the other day the engine exhaust began smelling really bad.
>> People on the back of the boat were complaining of the exhaust fumes
>> making them feel sick -- the first time this had happened. Later that
>> day the engine developed a really loud clicking from the passenger side
>> front of the engine -- it became much worse as the rpms were increased.
>> It was clear that it had something to do with the valve-train so me and a
>> buddy took the headers and valve covers off, and found a rocker arm that
>> was much looser (had more lash in it?) at DCT. The valves still seemed
>> to be fine, we could actuate them by hand and they felt correct. The
>> pushrod on that cylinder was fine. The funny part was that all of the
>> other rocker-arms were tightened down on the adjustment studs the exact
>> same amount -- to take the lash out of this noisy rocker-arm I would have
>> to tighten it down 2-3 threads further then any of the others -- this
>> just doesn't seem right to me that one rocker arm needs to be adjusted
>> tighter then the others.
>>
>> What would cause this? I've heard that the rocker-arm tightening studs
>> can begin to pull out and could have to be machined, and I've heard that
>> I may have had a lifter collapse. What is my next step to try and
>> resolve this problem?
>>
>> Thanks for any and all help.
>>
>> Rob
>>

>
>



  #4  
Old June 18th 05, 12:25 AM
Shep
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Is this a stock cam? You should really measure the valve lift on adjacent
valve with a dial indicator set up and compare this to the suspect valve to
eliminate cam wear, also use calipers to meaure the rocker stud height out
of cyl head and compare to an adjacent cylinder to check for the stud
pulling out, worn rocker arm/pivot should also be looked at.
"Robert C. Bosworth" > wrote in message
...
>I have a 454 that was marinized by PCM in my 1989 Supra Saltare ski boat.
>Ever since I purchased the boat last year it has been running horribly at
>WOT -- this question is about something different however. Stick with
>me -- it may get long. I'm a complete amateur at this stuff so I'm going
>to include everything I can think of and maybe someone can help me.
>
> Beginning the other day the engine exhaust began smelling really bad.
> People on the back of the boat were complaining of the exhaust fumes
> making them feel sick -- the first time this had happened. Later that day
> the engine developed a really loud clicking from the passenger side front
> of the engine -- it became much worse as the rpms were increased. It was
> clear that it had something to do with the valve-train so me and a buddy
> took the headers and valve covers off, and found a rocker arm that was
> much looser (had more lash in it?) at DCT. The valves still seemed to be
> fine, we could actuate them by hand and they felt correct. The pushrod on
> that cylinder was fine. The funny part was that all of the other
> rocker-arms were tightened down on the adjustment studs the exact same
> amount -- to take the lash out of this noisy rocker-arm I would have to
> tighten it down 2-3 threads further then any of the others -- this just
> doesn't seem right to me that one rocker arm needs to be adjusted tighter
> then the others.
>
> What would cause this? I've heard that the rocker-arm tightening studs
> can begin to pull out and could have to be machined, and I've heard that I
> may have had a lifter collapse. What is my next step to try and resolve
> this problem?
>
> Thanks for any and all help.
>
> Rob
>




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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  #5  
Old June 18th 05, 12:25 AM
Shep
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Is this a stock cam? You should really measure the valve lift on adjacent
valve with a dial indicator set up and compare this to the suspect valve to
eliminate cam wear, also use calipers to meaure the rocker stud height out
of cyl head and compare to an adjacent cylinder to check for the stud
pulling out, worn rocker arm/pivot should also be looked at.
"Robert C. Bosworth" > wrote in message
...
>I have a 454 that was marinized by PCM in my 1989 Supra Saltare ski boat.
>Ever since I purchased the boat last year it has been running horribly at
>WOT -- this question is about something different however. Stick with
>me -- it may get long. I'm a complete amateur at this stuff so I'm going
>to include everything I can think of and maybe someone can help me.
>
> Beginning the other day the engine exhaust began smelling really bad.
> People on the back of the boat were complaining of the exhaust fumes
> making them feel sick -- the first time this had happened. Later that day
> the engine developed a really loud clicking from the passenger side front
> of the engine -- it became much worse as the rpms were increased. It was
> clear that it had something to do with the valve-train so me and a buddy
> took the headers and valve covers off, and found a rocker arm that was
> much looser (had more lash in it?) at DCT. The valves still seemed to be
> fine, we could actuate them by hand and they felt correct. The pushrod on
> that cylinder was fine. The funny part was that all of the other
> rocker-arms were tightened down on the adjustment studs the exact same
> amount -- to take the lash out of this noisy rocker-arm I would have to
> tighten it down 2-3 threads further then any of the others -- this just
> doesn't seem right to me that one rocker arm needs to be adjusted tighter
> then the others.
>
> What would cause this? I've heard that the rocker-arm tightening studs
> can begin to pull out and could have to be machined, and I've heard that I
> may have had a lifter collapse. What is my next step to try and resolve
> this problem?
>
> Thanks for any and all help.
>
> Rob
>




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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  #6  
Old June 18th 05, 01:11 AM
Robert C. Bosworth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No idea if it's a stock cam -- I know that my friend that helped me out with
it told me it had high-performance valves in it, though.

Rob


"Shep" > wrote in message
...
> Is this a stock cam? You should really measure the valve lift on adjacent
> valve with a dial indicator set up and compare this to the suspect valve
> to eliminate cam wear, also use calipers to meaure the rocker stud height
> out of cyl head and compare to an adjacent cylinder to check for the stud
> pulling out, worn rocker arm/pivot should also be looked at.
> "Robert C. Bosworth" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I have a 454 that was marinized by PCM in my 1989 Supra Saltare ski boat.
>>Ever since I purchased the boat last year it has been running horribly at
>>WOT -- this question is about something different however. Stick with
>>me -- it may get long. I'm a complete amateur at this stuff so I'm going
>>to include everything I can think of and maybe someone can help me.
>>
>> Beginning the other day the engine exhaust began smelling really bad.
>> People on the back of the boat were complaining of the exhaust fumes
>> making them feel sick -- the first time this had happened. Later that
>> day the engine developed a really loud clicking from the passenger side
>> front of the engine -- it became much worse as the rpms were increased.
>> It was clear that it had something to do with the valve-train so me and a
>> buddy took the headers and valve covers off, and found a rocker arm that
>> was much looser (had more lash in it?) at DCT. The valves still seemed
>> to be fine, we could actuate them by hand and they felt correct. The
>> pushrod on that cylinder was fine. The funny part was that all of the
>> other rocker-arms were tightened down on the adjustment studs the exact
>> same amount -- to take the lash out of this noisy rocker-arm I would have
>> to tighten it down 2-3 threads further then any of the others -- this
>> just doesn't seem right to me that one rocker arm needs to be adjusted
>> tighter then the others.
>>
>> What would cause this? I've heard that the rocker-arm tightening studs
>> can begin to pull out and could have to be machined, and I've heard that
>> I may have had a lifter collapse. What is my next step to try and
>> resolve this problem?
>>
>> Thanks for any and all help.
>>
>> Rob
>>

>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
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  #7  
Old June 20th 05, 04:01 PM
ray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Robert C. Bosworth wrote:
> Could you give me a quick idea how I can do this, what I should look to be
> broken, and how it can be fixed?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob


if you measure the lift it'll give you an idea if the cam was wiped
(round lobe) or not.

Measure another intake or exhaust valve - some cams have different lift
for intake and exhaust, so you need to measure the same cam lobe on
another cylinder.

Could be a rocker stud - which may require the head to come off.
Could be a rocker arm problem - only needs the valve cover off.
Could be a bent pushrod - only needs the valve cover off.
Could be a collapsed lifter - you'll need to pull the intake for that.
Could be a wiped cam - timing cover and intake needs to come off.

If you're mechanically inclined, it can all be done, but I'd definitely
get a decent manual.

Does the boat have an oil pressure gauge? Was it reading normal? If
you've lost oil pressure then you may have more damage and one wiped cam
lobe is only the start... (ask me how I know.)

Ray
  #8  
Old June 20th 05, 04:10 PM
Robert C. Bosworth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"ray" > wrote in message
...
> Robert C. Bosworth wrote:
>> Could you give me a quick idea how I can do this, what I should look to
>> be broken, and how it can be fixed?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rob

>
> if you measure the lift it'll give you an idea if the cam was wiped (round
> lobe) or not.
>
> Measure another intake or exhaust valve - some cams have different lift
> for intake and exhaust, so you need to measure the same cam lobe on
> another cylinder.
>
> Could be a rocker stud - which may require the head to come off.
> Could be a rocker arm problem - only needs the valve cover off.
> Could be a bent pushrod - only needs the valve cover off.
> Could be a collapsed lifter - you'll need to pull the intake for that.
> Could be a wiped cam - timing cover and intake needs to come off.
>
> If you're mechanically inclined, it can all be done, but I'd definitely
> get a decent manual.
>
> Does the boat have an oil pressure gauge? Was it reading normal? If
> you've lost oil pressure then you may have more damage and one wiped cam
> lobe is only the start... (ask me how I know.)
>
> Ray


Thanks Ray --

I'm pulling it back apart right now to check it out. I think I've ruled out
the bent pushrod and the rocker arm -- now I'm going to check to see if the
stud has been pulled out. Right now I feel like it's a collapsed lifter --
I've still got good oil pressure, and there doesn't appear to be any flakes
in the oil.

I'll let you know.

Regards,

Rob


  #9  
Old June 23rd 05, 12:38 AM
Shep
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John if you have not done something like this before you may need
professional intervention. You would remove the suspect rocker arm and
measure the height of the stud from the boss on the head to the top of the
stud, you would have to know the standard for this measurement or compare it
to an adjacent cylinder, dial calipers are used here. It is also possible
the ball pivot the rocker rides on is worn. It is also possible the cam lobe
is worn, or the lifter collapsed, you may have to get the lifter out and see
if it is bad, look at the lobe contact are for signs of abnormal wear, also
look at the valve area wear the rocker contacts. As I said this will require
someone with experience to determine the area of the problem as well as the
cause.
"Robert C. Bosworth" > wrote in message
news
> Could you give me a quick idea how I can do this, what I should look to be
> broken, and how it can be fixed?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob
> "Woody" > wrote in message
> m...
>> You answered your own question. Pull the lifter...
>>
>>
>> "Robert C. Bosworth" > wrote in
>> message ...
>>>I have a 454 that was marinized by PCM in my 1989 Supra Saltare ski boat.
>>>Ever since I purchased the boat last year it has been running horribly at
>>>WOT -- this question is about something different however. Stick with
>>>me -- it may get long. I'm a complete amateur at this stuff so I'm
>>>going to include everything I can think of and maybe someone can help me.
>>>
>>> Beginning the other day the engine exhaust began smelling really bad.
>>> People on the back of the boat were complaining of the exhaust fumes
>>> making them feel sick -- the first time this had happened. Later that
>>> day the engine developed a really loud clicking from the passenger side
>>> front of the engine -- it became much worse as the rpms were increased.
>>> It was clear that it had something to do with the valve-train so me and
>>> a buddy took the headers and valve covers off, and found a rocker arm
>>> that was much looser (had more lash in it?) at DCT. The valves still
>>> seemed to be fine, we could actuate them by hand and they felt correct.
>>> The pushrod on that cylinder was fine. The funny part was that all of
>>> the other rocker-arms were tightened down on the adjustment studs the
>>> exact same amount -- to take the lash out of this noisy rocker-arm I
>>> would have to tighten it down 2-3 threads further then any of the
>>> others -- this just doesn't seem right to me that one rocker arm needs
>>> to be adjusted tighter then the others.
>>>
>>> What would cause this? I've heard that the rocker-arm tightening studs
>>> can begin to pull out and could have to be machined, and I've heard that
>>> I may have had a lifter collapse. What is my next step to try and
>>> resolve this problem?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any and all help.
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>

>>
>>

>
>




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