Part Numbers for 1994 Saturn Temperature Sensors

---I read so many complaints about the 1.9 overheating and out of all
the responses I see people saying either to replace the Engine
Temperature Sensor and/or the Coolant Temperature Sensor or I see
people claiming they replaced theirs and it helped... but not in a
single reply or post do I see any part numbers. What gives?

---All I see at the parts houses are the two-terminal sensors (closest
to the firewall on the driver side of the head), which are the ETCs.
There are no listings for the CTS (single-terminal sensor, closest to
the cooling fan on the driver side of the head).

---Water pump went out two years ago that started all this headache
that reminds me so much of GM! Engine mounts replaced, thermostat
replaced, radiator fan replaced, ETC replaced, rich fuel mixture fixed
by the ETC, overheating problem still present. Can't find the
single-terminal sensor and no one seems to think part numbers are nice
to give when replying.

---Thank you,
-SB-

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> ---I read so many complaints about the 1.9 overheating and out of all
> the responses I see people saying either to replace the Engine
> Temperature Sensor and/or the Coolant Temperature Sensor or I see
> people claiming they replaced theirs and it helped... but not in a
> single reply or post do I see any part numbers. What gives?
>
> ---All I see at the parts houses are the two-terminal sensors (closest
> to the firewall on the driver side of the head), which are the ETCs.
> There are no listings for the CTS (single-terminal sensor, closest to
> the cooling fan on the driver side of the head).
>
> ---Water pump went out two years ago that started all this headache
> that reminds me so much of GM! Engine mounts replaced, thermostat
> replaced, radiator fan replaced, ETC replaced, rich fuel mixture fixed
> by the ETC, overheating problem still present. Can't find the
> single-terminal sensor and no one seems to think part numbers are nice
> to give when replying.
>
> ---Thank you,
> -SB-

Hi, SB,
Google is your friend!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
SaturnFans.com hits are especially likely to be good ones.
Good luck!

Dont worry about the 'single contact' sensor.
It only provides the varying resistance for the dial on dash - nothing
else.
If your indicator is malfunctioning - this is it's sensor, but the
'signal' does not go to the PCM. This part is not available from
Autozone or Napa.
-WaV

wrote:
> ---I read so many complaints about the 1.9 overheating and out of all
> the responses I see people saying either to replace the Engine
> Temperature Sensor and/or the Coolant Temperature Sensor or I see
> people claiming they replaced theirs and it helped... but not in a
> single reply or post do I see any part numbers. What gives?
>
> ---All I see at the parts houses are the two-terminal sensors (closest
> to the firewall on the driver side of the head), which are the ETCs.
> There are no listings for the CTS (single-terminal sensor, closest to
> the cooling fan on the driver side of the head).
>
> ---Water pump went out two years ago that started all this headache
> that reminds me so much of GM! Engine mounts replaced, thermostat
> replaced, radiator fan replaced, ETC replaced, rich fuel mixture fixed
> by the ETC, overheating problem still present. Can't find the
> single-terminal sensor and no one seems to think part numbers are nice
> to give when replying.
>
> ---Thank you,
> -SB-

---Hey, thanks! Normally I do pretty good with Google, but I think my
thoughts on search words were receiving interference from the portion
of the brain that handles aggravation/anger. I've swapped the ETS with
a spare from the "donor body SL2" w/1.9 EFI DOHC. The numbers found
will makeit easier when visiting the counter-monkeys at the parts
house.

---For future reference, here's what part numbers I could cross to the
Saturn Part numbers given on SaturnFans. Pretty much all the companies
are subsidiaries. DEM is Dana Engine Management, Neihoff is Dana's best
line, Echlin is slightly lower quality and MPE is NAPA doing nothing
more than marking the price up on Echlin with their boxes. SMP is
Standard Motor Products which is the generic line for Dana and as you
may all know AC-Delco is a GM "name brand".

-21025106 = dual-terminal... is the Saturn number for the ETS/ECTS
(Engine Temperature Sensor/Engine Control Temperature Sensor), the
switch that controls the PCM/air-fuel mixture/cooling
fan/transmission/etc.
Wells - SU1425
Echlin - TS5587
DEM - TS10193
AC-Delco - 2131138
SMP - TS356

-21020124 = single-terminal... is the Saturn number for the CTS
(Coolant Temperature Sensor), which for the operators who understand
the importance of gauges, controls the temperature gauge.
Wells - TU227
Echlin - TS6023
DEM - TS10128
MPE - TS6023SB
GPS - 385146
Factory Air - 36462
BW - WT5029
Neihoff - TS71271
SMP - TX73

---This is a (1993½) 1994 Saturn SL1 w/1.9 TBI SOHC. The vehicle was
bought used and ran pretty well for the first two years. Let me point
out that the only thing that makes this GM product a decent vehicle is
that it has a timing chain rather than a belt. This makes the engine
durable, but the Delco electronics will be something that haunts us all
until GM goes under and we don't have to worry about substandard
electronics anymore.

---The problem is not solved yet, but it is being narrowed down. My bet
is that it is a faulty PCM and as GM would have done, Saturn is
ignoring it rather than recalling it. Cooling fan, Thermostat, O²
sensor and ETS (used because part number couldn't be found) were
replaced. Battery disconnected for 5 minutes, though only 10 seconds is
necessary to clear codes from the ECM.

NOTE: Remember to clear the codes after making repairs, by
disconnecting the battery for 10 seconds. If the codes aren't cleared,
incorrect signals can/will be sent to the ECM. Also, needed space for
true/valid codes may not be available.

---The cruise control would work occasionally at first. Then the idle
RPMs became fairly high at around 1100-1200 RPM. Other symptoms were
erratic up-shifts/down-shifts that were uncommon even for GM (hate the
way GM shifts... especially with cruise control activated). The idle
RPMs gradually increased over the months and toward the end of my fuse,
it had become so hard to start that I would have to hold the pedal to
the floor while starting and the thickest black smoke (rich burn) would
bellow from the exhaust as it would strain to bring the RPMs up to a
decent level... while in the process, killing all local wild life
faster than as if I used SeaFoam. Idle RPMs about this time in neutral
were about 1800, then when settled it ran about 1400. Drive/Reverse was
about 1200... and with the fuel mixture being so rich, the car was
impossible to stop with gradual brake pressure and ready to launch when
stopped.

---Engine temperature would get to ¾ of the gauge and four times
believe it or not, water had erupted from under the coolant reservoir
cap. My method to keeping the temps down was the same as most, to
trigger the relay for the fan by turning on the AC. This made the
engine run even worse because the ECM was telling the RPMs to become
xxxRPMs higher than the 800RPM idle... so, the ECM would force the RPMs
down, causing even worse economy. The cooling fan failed, maybe not
related; Maybe so, due to incorrect signals, so it was replaced. Fuel
economy was horrible and so erratic, I couldn't begin to keep track of
a full tank.

---With my working under the hood of nothing smaller than a ½ ton
truck, looking for this ETS was to say the least, a royal PITA. Getting
in and out of this dwarf of a vehicle is bad enough, but bending over
at pelvic height? Sitting on a 1' step stool would be better than
kneeling down to work on it. Besides, kneeling down gives me flashbacks
of owning a GM. Replacement of the ETS and disconnecting of the battery
to reset the PCM/ECM seems to have helped, but every time the temp
reaches the ¾ mark, the "Service Engine Soon" light comes on. I next
have to install a new ETS and reset the PCM/ECM, then if the
"Service... "light comes on again, short A & B terminals on the
connector and grab any codes... if the light will go on at a convenient
time and not during rush hour traffic when I am pressed for time.

---Thanks again,
-SB-

You have replaced all the critical sensors.
You may have, unfortunately overlooked one (improbable?) possibility:
A doa sensor.
They can be damaged during installation! I've seen it.
If you can, check the resistance of the sensor. Its a little tricky
to hook leads to the sensor though. You might want to put together
something from a scrap submin plug array.


wrote:
> ---Hey, thanks! Normally I do pretty good with Google, but I think my
> thoughts on search words were receiving interference from the portion
> of the brain that handles aggravation/anger. I've swapped the ETS with
> a spare from the "donor body SL2" w/1.9 EFI DOHC. The numbers found
> will makeit easier when visiting the counter-monkeys at the parts
> house.
>
> ---For future reference, here's what part numbers I could cross to the
> Saturn Part numbers given on SaturnFans. Pretty much all the companies
> are subsidiaries. DEM is Dana Engine Management, Neihoff is Dana's best
> line, Echlin is slightly lower quality and MPE is NAPA doing nothing
> more than marking the price up on Echlin with their boxes. SMP is
> Standard Motor Products which is the generic line for Dana and as you
> may all know AC-Delco is a GM "name brand"
>
> -21025106 = dual-terminal... is the Saturn number for the ETS/ECTS
> (Engine Temerature Sensor/Engine Control Temperature Sensor), the
> switch that controls the PCM/air-fuel mixture/cooling
> fan/transmission/etc.
> Wells - SU1425
> Echlin - TS5587
> DEM - TS10193
> AC-Delco - 2131138
> SMP - TS356
>
> -21020124 = single-terminal... is the Saturn number for the CTS
> (Coolant Temperature Sensor), which for the operators who understand
> the importance of gauges, controls the temperature gauge.
> Wells - TU227
> Echlin - TS6023
> DEM - TS10128
> MPE - TS6023SB
> GPS - 385146
> Factory Air - 36462
> BW - WT5029
> Neihoff - TS71271
> SMP - TX73
>
> ---This is a (1993½) 1994 Saturn SL1 w/1.9 TBI SOHC. The vehicle was
> bought used and ran pretty well for the first two years. Let me point
> out that the only thing that makes this GM product a decent vehicle is
> that it has a timing chain rather than a belt. This makes the engine
> durable, but the Delco electronics will be something that haunts us all
> until GM goes under and we don't have to worry about substandard
> electronics anymore.
>
> ---The problem is not solved yet, but it is being narrowed down. My bet
> is that it is a faulty PCM and as GM would have done, Saturn is
> ignoring it rather than recalling it. Cooling fan, Thermostat, O²
> sensor and ETS (used because part number couldn't be found) were
> replaced. Battery disconnected for 5 minutes, though only 10 seconds is
> necessary to clear codes from the ECM.
>
> NOTE: Remember to clear the codes after making repairs, by
> disconnecting the battery for 10 seconds. If the codes aren't cleared,
> incorrect signals can/will be sent to the ECM. Also, needed space for
> true/valid codes may not be available.
>
> ---The cruise control would work occasionally at first. Then the idle
> RPMs became fairly high at around 1100-1200 RPM. Other symptoms were
> erratic up-shifts/down-shifts that were uncommon even for GM (hate the
> way GM shifts... especially with cruise control activated). The idle
> RPMs gradually increased over the months and toward the end of my fuse,
> it had become so hard to start that I would have to hold the pedal to
> the floor while starting and the thickest black smoke (rich burn) would
> bellow from the exhaust as it would strain to bring the RPMs up to a
> decent level... while in the process, killing all local wild life
> faster than as if I used SeaFoam. Idle RPMs about this time in neutral
> were about 1800, then when settled it ran about 1400. Drive/Reverse was
> about 1200... and with the fuel mixture being so rich, the car was
> impossible to stop with gradual brake pressure and ready to launch when
> stopped.
>
> ---Engine temperature would get to ¾ of the gauge and four times
> believe it or not, water had erupted from under the coolant reservoir
> cap. My method to keeping the temps down was the same as most, to
> trigger the relay for the fan by turning on the AC. This made the
> engine run even worse because the ECM was telling the RPMs to become
> xxxRPMs higher than the 800RPM idle... so, the ECM would force the RPMs
> down, causing even worse economy. The cooling fan failed, maybe not
> related; Maybe so, due to incorrect signals, so it was replaced. Fuel
> economy was horrible and so erratic, I couldn't begin to keep track of
> a full tank.
>
> ---With my working under the hood of nothing smaller than a ½ ton
> truck, looking for this ETS was to say the least, a royal PITA. Getting
> in and out of this dwarf of a vehicle is bad enough, but bending over
> at pelvic height? Sitting on a 1' step stool would be better than
> kneeling down to work on it. Besides, kneeling down gives me flashbacks
> of owning a GM. Replacement of the ETS and disconnecting of the battery
> to reset the PCM/ECM seems to have helped, but every time the temp
> reaches the ¾ mark, the "Service Engine Soon" light comes on. I next
> have to install a new ETS and reset the PCM/ECM, then if the
> "Service... "light comes on again, short A & B terminals on the
> connector and grab any codes... if the light will go on at a convenient
> time and not during rush hour traffic when I am pressed for time.
>
> ---Thanks again,
> -SB-

---Let me first say that I haven't had a chance to catch the error code
yet, but just before the thermostat opens, the "service engine soon"
light comes on. Temperature drops, but the "idiot" light doesn't go off
after 10 seconds, it stays on for about 90 seconds. So far, I have
always been in traffic and pressed for time so I couldn't pull over and
capture codes, but I will eventually capture them and come back with
codes and what the manual says about the codes, fix the problems and
report back again...all this for the sake of future readers. Now
please, allow me to state that if you want to buy a car and you are
prepared to work on it yourself, even if you have a mechanical
education/background, use the service manual even if only as a coffee
coaster that is open to the section you are working on.

-wavy,

---I am ignorant to the DOA sensor. Illuminate me by telling me what a
DOA sensor is and where to find it. I have a wide variety of terminals
and alligator clips, plus various gauges and colors or primary and
resistance wire, it's part of my job. Make note that when it comes to
"tech" subjects, jokes really have no place. In all my years of
automotive, I have never heard of this part. Again, note...I have been
known to reach through the monitor and grab people for stupidity in
"tech" sites. Also understand that this POS has me ready to run it
off-road and video-taping the whole thing, in laymen terms, I have had
it with GM completely and I don't see what Saturn did different that
caused the employees to "start their own company because they are tired
of the way GM did things".

---You emailed me off-list telling me that you believe it is the PCM
because I had to reset the ECM by disconnecting the battery. I am not
at the point of saying it is yet and I am not ready to tell future
readers they need to run out and buy a $300+ part because their car is
over-heating. I am going to try and capture the error codes first. I
had stated in my last reply that I am suspicious of Saturn ignoring
something that should have been recalled, but I have not yet found the
problem, so I can't verify this... but with all the people who own
Saturns having cooling problems, I would guess that there is a problem
Saturn is ignoring. As for the email you sent me, If you are serious at
all, you would know that resetting the "brain" is necessary in nearly
every make vehicle to clear codes once you replace the component that
gave you the error code. If not, l you give the engine a false signal
from the ECM and in a case where, let's just say the ETS was telling
ECM the engine was running too rich, the ECM would lean out the
mixture. Replacing the component without resetting the ECM would have
the ECM giving the engine a lean burn signal still, thus resulting in
over-heating and quite possibly burnt valves and/or pistons having
holes burnt through the tops. COPPICE!?

---Again, smart owners and mechanics don't say that gauges are
unimportant. Also, in an electrical world, where computers are primary
components, every* single wire should be functioning the way it was
when it left the factory, if not, then the computer can and normally
will* be confused...

...try tapping the electric fan to the fuel pump circuit and tell me
how it responds in another 6 months.

---I am a proud owner of a 1973.5 and a 1979 international, I am an SAE
certified mechanic (which doesn't mean squat in this age because you
can pretty much get certification at City Hall these days with a $20
bill). My daily driver has 476,000 miles on it and it runs as strong as
the first day I drove it. Vehicles don't last because of guessing, they
last because of engineering and proper maintenance and repairs.
Guessing plays no part in mechanics and shade-tree mechanics need to
stay in the shade of the tree and out from under the hood.

---I frequent 4 bulletin/message boards that are IHC related and I say
it all the time. You do not perform any* work without a service manual
under your nose (I don't see any mention of a DOA sensor and I really
don't think humor is appropriate in a tech section... until problems
are solved... then we can all laugh when we find out how stupid GM
was/is). When you spout out guesses on the internet, you are as much a
failure at mechanics on the internet as you would be in a real-time
situation.

---Because I know that foolishness can be contagious, I will say "I am
sure you have helped many people, but if you need time off so you can
collect your thoughts, take a week off". If you're serious about a DOA
sensor, I'll return with "part numbers" for future readers. If you're
going to be part of a technical site, I think it's appropriate to be
technical, not radical... dude.

---Thank you,
-SB-

wavy wrote:
> You have replaced all the critical sensors.
> You may have, unfortunately overlooked one (improbable?) possibility:
> A doa sensor.
> They can be damaged during installation! I've seen it.
> If you can, check the resistance of the sensor. Its a little tricky
> to hook leads to the sensor though. You might want to put together
> something from a scrap submin plug array.
>
>
> wrote:
> > ---Hey, thanks! Normally I do pretty good with Google, but I think my
> > thoughts on search words were receiving interference from the portion
> > of the brain that handles aggravation/anger. I've swapped the ETS with
> > a spare from the "donor body SL2" w/1.9 EFI DOHC. The numbers found
> > will makeit easier when visiting the counter-monkeys at the parts
> > house.
> >
> > ---For future reference, here's what part numbers I could cross to the
> > Saturn Part numbers given on SaturnFans. Pretty much all the companies
> > are subsidiaries. DEM is Dana Engine Management, Neihoff is Dana's best
> > line, Echlin is slightly lower quality and MPE is NAPA doing nothing
> > more than marking the price up on Echlin with their boxes. SMP is
> > Standard Motor Products which is the generic line for Dana and as you
> > may all know AC-Delco is a GM "name brand"
> >
> > -21025106 = dual-terminal... is the Saturn number for the ETS/ECTS
> > (Engine Temerature Sensor/Engine Control Temperature Sensor), the
> > switch that controls the PCM/air-fuel mixture/cooling
> > fan/transmission/etc.
> > Wells - SU1425
> > Echlin - TS5587
> > DEM - TS10193
> > AC-Delco - 2131138
> > SMP - TS356
> >
> > -21020124 = single-terminal... is the Saturn number for the CTS
> > (Coolant Temperature Sensor), which for the operators who understand
> > the importance of gauges, controls the temperature gauge.
> > Wells - TU227
> > Echlin - TS6023
> > DEM - TS10128
> > MPE - TS6023SB
> > GPS - 385146
> > Factory Air - 36462
> > BW - WT5029
> > Neihoff - TS71271
> > SMP - TX73
> >
> > ---This is a (1993½) 1994 Saturn SL1 w/1.9 TBI SOHC. The vehicle was
> > bought used and ran pretty well for the first two years. Let me point
> > out that the only thing that makes this GM product a decent vehicle is
> > that it has a timing chain rather than a belt. This makes the engine
> > durable, but the Delco electronics will be something that haunts us all
> > until GM goes under and we don't have to worry about substandard
> > electronics anymore.
> >
> > ---The problem is not solved yet, but it is being narrowed down. My bet
> > is that it is a faulty PCM and as GM would have done, Saturn is
> > ignoring it rather than recalling it. Cooling fan, Thermostat, O²
> > sensor and ETS (used because part number couldn't be found) were
> > replaced. Battery disconnected for 5 minutes, though only 10 seconds is
> > necessary to clear codes from the ECM.
> >
> > NOTE: Remember to clear the codes after making repairs, by
> > disconnecting the battery for 10 seconds. If the codes aren't cleared,
> > incorrect signals can/will be sent to the ECM. Also, needed space for
> > true/valid codes may not be available.
> >
> > ---The cruise control would work occasionally at first. Then the idle
> > RPMs became fairly high at around 1100-1200 RPM. Other symptoms were
> > erratic up-shifts/down-shifts that were uncommon even for GM (hate the
> > way GM shifts... especially with cruise control activated). The idle
> > RPMs gradually increased over the months and toward the end of my fuse,
> > it had become so hard to start that I would have to hold the pedal to
> > the floor while starting and the thickest black smoke (rich burn) would
> > bellow from the exhaust as it would strain to bring the RPMs up to a
> > decent level... while in the process, killing all local wild life
> > faster than as if I used SeaFoam. Idle RPMs about this time in neutral
> > were about 1800, then when settled it ran about 1400. Drive/Reverse was
> > about 1200... and with the fuel mixture being so rich, the car was
> > impossible to stop with gradual brake pressure and ready to launch when
> > stopped.
> >
> > ---Engine temperature would get to ¾ of the gauge and four times
> > believe it or not, water had erupted from under the coolant reservoir
> > cap. My method to keeping the temps down was the same as most, to
> > trigger the relay for the fan by turning on the AC. This made the
> > engine run even worse because the ECM was telling the RPMs to become
> > xxxRPMs higher than the 800RPM idle... so, the ECM would force the RPMs
> > down, causing even worse economy. The cooling fan failed, maybe not
> > related; Maybe so, due to incorrect signals, so it was replaced. Fuel
> > economy was horrible and so erratic, I couldn't begin to keep track of
> > a full tank.
> >
> > ---With my working under the hood of nothing smaller than a ½ ton
> > truck, looking for this ETS was to say the least, a royal PITA. Getting
> > in and out of this dwarf of a vehicle is bad enough, but bending over
> > at pelvic height? Sitting on a 1' step stool would be better than
> > kneeling down to work on it. Besides, kneeling down gives me flashbacks
> > of owning a GM. Replacement of the ETS and disconnecting of the battery
> > to reset the PCM/ECM seems to have helped, but every time the temp
> > reaches the ¾ mark, the "Service Engine Soon" light comes on. I next
> > have to install a new ETS and reset the PCM/ECM, then if the
> > "Service... "light comes on again, short A & B terminals on the
> > connector and grab any codes... if the light will go on at a convenient
> > time and not during rush hour traffic when I am pressed for time.
> >
> > ---Thanks again,
> > -SB-

---Again, this car has me ticked off, but it makes me more determined
to find out what the problem is... especially when reading how so many
others have the same or similar problems... cooling issues. So, my
reply was a bit harsh, if wavy was being serious, but it was honest...
so don't condemn me for honesty, just take the font for what it was
worth if it is upsetting... colored text on your monitor and nothig
more...

.... and lets get on toward revealing the problem and helping others...
then maybe we can make the Saturn a better vehicle with some
after-market parts we design ourselves!