GM to pull the plug on Pontiac

Does that mean that any car maker can brand a car as a Pontiac?

What is the status of Plymouth? If you're not using a brand name, can
someone else?

-------------------------------

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/24/auto...obit/index.htm

GM to pull the plug on Pontiac

The brand credited with originating the muscle car will no longer be
part of GM's future, according to a source.

Last Updated: April 24, 2009: 4:39 PM ET

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pontiac_g8.03.jpg
The Pontiac G8 performance sedan has been a hit with critics but it
hasn't caught on with customers.
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NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors is preparing to announce that
the Pontiac car brand, once marketed as GM's "Excitement division," will
be killed off, according to a source familiar with the decision.

An official announcement is expected Monday. GM spokesman Jim Hopson
declined to comment on Pontiac's fate, saying the automaker has no
announcements to make at this time.

In its most recent "viability plan" - which will be updated to reflect
this new brand cut - Pontiac was not named as one of GM's four "core
brands." Those are Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac. But Pontiac was
also not to be killed or sold off, as were Saturn, Saab and Hummer.

Instead Pontiac was to continue on as a "niche brand" focusing on just a
few models.

That was already a step down for Pontiac which in 2008 was the
third-best selling brand behind Chevrolet and GMC. That year the brand
sold more than Cadillac and twice as many vehicles as Buick. Cadillac is
a high-profile - and high profit - luxury brand while Buick is a hugely
popular brand in China and is seen as resurgent in the United States.

In 2005, GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz referred to Buick and Pontiac as
"damaged brands" during a conference at the New York Auto Show. That set
off speculation that one or both of these brands was doomed.

With a focus on affordable luxury, Buick's hopes have been revived by
models like the popular Enclave crossover SUV. Improvements in Buick
Quality, which earned a top ranking in a recent J.D. Power dependability
survey and a public acknowledgement by President Obama, have also helped
Buick keep its place in the shrinking pantheon of GM names.
Pontiac performance

"There was a time, a long way back now, when you knew exactly what
Pontiac stood for," said Kevin Smith, editorial director for the
automotive Web site Edmunds.com.

The GM unit's identity as a performance brand dates back to the late
1950s and early 1960s. Pontiac cars were designed with wider bodies for
cosmetic reasons and the wheels were pushed out to match. This
"wide-track" design became a selling point and was advertised as giving
Pontiac cars a distinct cornering advantage over other cars.

But the idea of Pontiac as a performance brand was solidified in 1964
with the creation of the Pontiac Tempest LeMans GTO. That car quickly
evolved into, simply, the GTO and is often credited with creating a new
class of American car, the muscle car.

Under Lutz, plans were formed to bring back some actual excitement to
the Pontiac brand, which hadn't seen much since the Firebird - a
flashier Pontiac version of the Chevrolet Camaro - ended production in
2002.

One strategy floated for Pontiac was to sell only, or mostly,
rear-wheel-drive cars. That would set it apart from other GM divisions,
and most cars sold in America. Rear-wheel-drive is associated with
performance brands like BMW.

Unfortunately, the re-introduction of the Pontiac GTO name on a
performance coupe imported from Australia didn't result in big sales. So
far, the Pontiac G8, a rear-wheel-drive four-door sedan also imported
from GM's Australian Holden division, hasn't been a sales success
either, despite good reviews.

Pontiac's most popular products remain the G6, a decent but unexciting
midsize car available as a sedan, coupe or convertible, and the Vibe, a
small wagon shared with Toyota, which sells it as the Matrix.

Any plans to return Pontiac to the heavy-horsepower days of the '70s
ended as gas prices rose and Congress prepared stricter fuel economy
rules for the industry.

Those pressures resulted in GM quietly introducing the Pontiac G3, which
had been sold in Canada only. Once again, Pontiac was selling a rebadged
Chevrolet product, this time the Korean-built Aveo subcompact car.

Pontiac's lack of focus as a brand may finally have brought its demise,
said Smith. "That's just death in a marketplace where there's so much
competition and so much quality," he said.

Pontiac's current role in GM seems mostly to be to support GMC and Buick
by providing a brand under which Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealers could sell
non-luxury cars, filling out what then becomes a full-line showroom.

The brand-channel strategy now makes it easier for GM to phase out the
brand because it would cause less harm to dealers, independent business
protected by strong state franchise laws. When GM phased out Oldsmobile
in the early 2000's, it cost GM more than $1 billion to buy out the
contracts of Oldsmobile dealers who were left with nothing to sell.

This time, most Pontiac dealers will have other products to sell.

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 20:45:59 -0400, MoPar Man wrote:

> Does that mean that any car maker can brand a car as a Pontiac?
>
> What is the status of Plymouth? If you're not using a brand name, can
> someone else?

No you can't, GM still owns the Oldsmobile and Pontiac trademarks, you
don't give up a trademark just because you aren't using it at the moment.

The retention of trademarks/brand names of dead products is common practice
in all industries. For example, there was some speculation if Mars UK would
reintroduce the Marathon name for the bar that is now known as Snickers,
which I think is the more international name.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
---
"General Schvantzkoph" > wrote in message
...
[...]
>
> No you can't, GM still owns the Oldsmobile and Pontiac trademarks, you
> don't give up a trademark just because you aren't using it at the moment.

> http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/24/auto...obit/index.htm
>
> GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
>
> The brand credited with originating the muscle car will no longer be
> part of GM's future, according to a source.
>
> Last Updated: April 24, 2009: 4:39 PM ET

IMO the Pontiac cars were better than Chevs.
A slightly more upscale Chev.

Oh well, cheap is coming!

who wrote:

> IMO the Pontiac cars were better than Chevs.
> A slightly more upscale Chev.
>
> Oh well, cheap is coming!

Yep! I had a 1989 Firebird. It was for the most part the same as the
Camero. Had nicer interior, flip up headlights and some other more
upscale trim features but otherwise same car.

"General Schvantzkoph" wrote:

> No you can't, GM still owns the Oldsmobile and Pontiac trademarks,
> you don't give up a trademark just because you aren't using it at
> the moment.

Dori A Schmetterling top-posted:

> The retention of trademarks/brand names of dead products is common
> practice in all industries.

In the past 50 or 60 years, has any car brand (or division) ever been
brought back into use once it was discontinued? I'm not just talking
about the 300 coming back in 1999 or the Challenger coming back last
year. Will Desoto ever be brought back? Oldsmobile? Plymouth?

---------------------------------
http://tinyurl.com/cbzl2r

LIFE CYCLE OF A TRADEMARK

STAGE 8 -- MAINTENANCE

Maintenance keeps you up-to-date on any affidavit or other document that
must be filed to keep your registration active.

Affidavit, proving continual use, must be filed between the fifth and
sixth year of registration to prevent the registration from being
canceled.

This applies to the Section 9 renewal application, which allows the
owner of a registration to renew his or her registration every 10 years,
once the initial term of registration is complete. Failure to file will
result in the expiration of the registration.

Maintenance can be handled by you, your attorney or a trademark service
company. The purpose of a maintenance program is to ensure that no
trademark registrations are canceled for failure to file necessary and
time sensitive documents.
--------------------------------

I've been searching the net for what additional material (if any) must
accompany the 10-year renewals, and specifically if some form of
"continuous use" proof must be included in each 10-year renewal (as is
needed for the initial 5-6 year filing). But I haven't found anything
that specifically says that some form of continuous use must occur (or
needn't occur) to support each 10-year renewal.

Presumably a car maker must visibly brand (badge) a car with a trademark
in order to satisfy the "continuous use" criteria for that mark.

MoPar Man > writes:

> "General Schvantzkoph" wrote:
>
>> No you can't, GM still owns the Oldsmobile and Pontiac trademarks,
>> you don't give up a trademark just because you aren't using it at
>> the moment.
>
> Dori A Schmetterling top-posted:
>
>> The retention of trademarks/brand names of dead products is common
>> practice in all industries.
>
> In the past 50 or 60 years, has any car brand (or division) ever been
> brought back into use once it was discontinued? I'm not just talking
> about the 300 coming back in 1999 or the Challenger coming back last
> year. Will Desoto ever be brought back? Oldsmobile? Plymouth?

Bugatti.

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 08:50:25 -0400, MoPar Man wrote:

> "General Schvantzkoph" wrote:
>
>> No you can't, GM still owns the Oldsmobile and Pontiac trademarks, you
>> don't give up a trademark just because you aren't using it at
>> the moment.
>
> Dori A Schmetterling top-posted:
>
>> The retention of trademarks/brand names of dead products is common
>> practice in all industries.
>
> In the past 50 or 60 years, has any car brand (or division) ever been
> brought back into use once it was discontinued? I'm not just talking
> about the 300 coming back in 1999 or the Challenger coming back last
> year. Will Desoto ever be brought back? Oldsmobile? Plymouth?
>
> ---------------------------------
> http://tinyurl.com/cbzl2r
>
> LIFE CYCLE OF A TRADEMARK
>
> STAGE 8 -- MAINTENANCE
>
> Maintenance keeps you up-to-date on any affidavit or other document that
> must be filed to keep your registration active.
>
> Affidavit, proving continual use, must be filed between the fifth and
> sixth year of registration to prevent the registration from being
> canceled.
>
> This applies to the Section 9 renewal application, which allows the
> owner of a registration to renew his or her registration every 10 years,
> once the initial term of registration is complete. Failure to file will
> result in the expiration of the registration.
>
> Maintenance can be handled by you, your attorney or a trademark service
> company. The purpose of a maintenance program is to ensure that no
> trademark registrations are canceled for failure to file necessary and
> time sensitive documents.
> --------------------------------
>
> I've been searching the net for what additional material (if any) must
> accompany the 10-year renewals, and specifically if some form of
> "continuous use" proof must be included in each 10-year renewal (as is
> needed for the initial 5-6 year filing). But I haven't found anything
> that specifically says that some form of continuous use must occur (or
> needn't occur) to support each 10-year renewal.
>
> Presumably a car maker must visibly brand (badge) a car with a trademark
> in order to satisfy the "continuous use" criteria for that mark.

They continue to sell parts for discontinued models, that's certainly
enough to show continued use. I wouldn't be surprised if giving a license
to a model maker wouldn't count also. You can buy a diecast LaSalle today
even if you haven't been able been able to buy a full size LaSalle for 70
years, that alone might allow GM to retain the LaSalle trademark assuming
that they issued a license to the model manufacturer.

MoPar Man wrote:
> "General Schvantzkoph" wrote:
>
>> No you can't, GM still owns the Oldsmobile and Pontiac trademarks,
>> you don't give up a trademark just because you aren't using it at
>> the moment.
>
> Dori A Schmetterling top-posted:
>
>> The retention of trademarks/brand names of dead products is common
>> practice in all industries.
>
> In the past 50 or 60 years, has any car brand (or division) ever been
> brought back into use once it was discontinued? I'm not just talking
> about the 300 coming back in 1999 or the Challenger coming back last
> year. Will Desoto ever be brought back? Oldsmobile? Plymouth?

I'm sure Nate will point out that there've been a number of attempts at
resuscitating the Stuebaker (or at least Avanti) brand. One could also
argue that Imperial has come and gone a few times, but the latter times
I would say that it was just a model in the Chrysler line, not a brand
of its own. I can't think of a mainstream American marque that has been
successfully brought back. What I wouldn't give to see Packard again...

Worldwide- what about Bugatti? Wasn't it gone for a while? I don't think
Aston-Martin ever disappeared completely, but it sure had a low profile
for a while.

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:29:18 -0500, Steve wrote:

> MoPar Man wrote:
>> "General Schvantzkoph" wrote:
>>
>>> No you can't, GM still owns the Oldsmobile and Pontiac trademarks, you
>>> don't give up a trademark just because you aren't using it at
>>> the moment.
>>
>> Dori A Schmetterling top-posted:
>>
>>> The retention of trademarks/brand names of dead products is common
>>> practice in all industries.
>>
>> In the past 50 or 60 years, has any car brand (or division) ever been
>> brought back into use once it was discontinued? I'm not just talking
>> about the 300 coming back in 1999 or the Challenger coming back last
>> year. Will Desoto ever be brought back? Oldsmobile? Plymouth?
>
> I'm sure Nate will point out that there've been a number of attempts at
> resuscitating the Stuebaker (or at least Avanti) brand. One could also
> argue that Imperial has come and gone a few times, but the latter times
> I would say that it was just a model in the Chrysler line, not a brand
> of its own. I can't think of a mainstream American marque that has been
> successfully brought back. What I wouldn't give to see Packard again...
>
> Worldwide- what about Bugatti? Wasn't it gone for a while? I don't think
> Aston-Martin ever disappeared completely, but it sure had a low profile
> for a while.

Indian motorcycles came and went again.