undeserved running red light ticket. Need advice

I recently received a ticket for running a red light. I did run the
light but I think I had a valid reason.

It was late at night and I had gone out to get something to eat. I
went to the Wendy's drive-thru and while I was ordering some guy was
trying to bum money from me as I ordered. He said he wanted $1.00 to
buy gas to get home but this area is bad for panhandling and this was
probably made up. When I got to the window I told the guy in the
drive-thru what happened and he sent someone out to run the guy off.

When I got my food I pulled out behind the Wendy's at an exit that is
between a drug store and McDonald's. From here I would turn right
and go straight thru an intersection about 50 yards away (McDonalds is
on the corner).

As I stated to pull out this bum came up on my driver's side and
started yelling at me. He quickly moved in front of my car and just
stood there screaming at me for about 20 seconds shouting something.
As he moved around to the passenger side I took off turning right. As
I pulled out the light at the intersection was already yellow but I
kept going and it turned red about a second before I went under it.

It was late, traffic was light, and I could see no cars near the
intersection. I didn't want to stop at the light and have this guy
come over to my car again. I thought it was best to get out of the
area.

About a block away a cop pulled me over for running the red light. I
started telling him about the guy but he said he did not see anyone and
he had been in the area all night. I then decided to just drop it and
tell it to the judge before I lost my temper and made matters worse.

I did notice a police car at the McDonalds on the corner and it could
have been the guy who gave me the ticket. Another police officer
pulled up a few minutes later and it could have been his car I saw. It
may not have been either of them.

When I got home I noticed something smeared over the passenger side of
my car. I think this guy threw something at my car but I didn't hear
it hit. It looked like it was a milk shake.

I don't have a history of traffic tickets. In the last 10 years (or
more) I've had one ticket which was for speeding about 9 months ago
which I pled NOLO too.

How should I handle this?

Do I plead Not Guilty? I did run the light.
Do I plead Guilty and explain it? But if I do this a Guilty Plea may
put it on my MVR and cause my insurance to shoot up.
Does it even matter if I had a good reason to run the light?

What is the best strategy?
What should I have done in this situation?

Don

"Don" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I recently received a ticket for running a red light. I did run the
> light but I think I had a valid reason.
>
> It was late at night and I had gone out to get something to eat. I
> went to the Wendy's drive-thru and while I was ordering some guy was
> trying to bum money from me as I ordered. He said he wanted $1.00 to
> buy gas to get home but this area is bad for panhandling and this was
> probably made up. When I got to the window I told the guy in the
> drive-thru what happened and he sent someone out to run the guy off.
>
> When I got my food I pulled out behind the Wendy's at an exit that is
> between a drug store and McDonald's. From here I would turn right
> and go straight thru an intersection about 50 yards away (McDonalds is
> on the corner).
>
> As I stated to pull out this bum came up on my driver's side and
> started yelling at me. He quickly moved in front of my car and just
> stood there screaming at me for about 20 seconds shouting something.
> As he moved around to the passenger side ********I took off turning
right********. As
> I pulled out the light at the intersection was already yellow but I
> kept going and it turned red about a second before I went under it.
>
> It was late, traffic was light, and I could see no cars near the
> intersection. I didn't want to stop at the light and have this guy
> come over to my car again. I thought it was best to get out of the
> area.
>
> About a block away a cop pulled me over for running the red light. I
> started telling him about the guy but he said he did not see anyone and
> he had been in the area all night. I then decided to just drop it and
> tell it to the judge before I lost my temper and made matters worse.
>
> I did notice a police car at the McDonalds on the corner and it could
> have been the guy who gave me the ticket. Another police officer
> pulled up a few minutes later and it could have been his car I saw. It
> may not have been either of them.
>
> When I got home I noticed something smeared over the passenger side of
> my car. I think this guy threw something at my car but I didn't hear
> it hit. It looked like it was a milk shake.
>
> I don't have a history of traffic tickets. In the last 10 years (or
> more) I've had one ticket which was for speeding about 9 months ago
> which I pled NOLO too.
>
> How should I handle this?
>
> Do I plead Not Guilty? I did run the light.
> Do I plead Guilty and explain it? But if I do this a Guilty Plea may
> put it on my MVR and cause my insurance to shoot up.
> Does it even matter if I had a good reason to run the light?
>
> What is the best strategy?
> What should I have done in this situation?
>
> Don

ALWAYS plead not guilty. If you are going to contest it, get a written
statement from the guy in the drive-through who sent someone out to get rid
of the trespasser in the Wendy's drive-through. Also get the written
statement notarized. That is the only chance you have. Without proof of
the panhandler being in the area, you are out of luck.

FWIW, in a similar circumstance, I would have run the light, regardless of
what color it was, after checking for traffic. BTW, where do you live that
it is illegal to turn right on red? In most areas of the country, what you
did (checked for traffic, verified road was clear, then turned right on a
red) would not have been illegal, even if the light was RED the entire
ime. -Dave

We can turn right on red here.

I did not turn right on red, I went straight thru the intersection. I
turned right coming out of the parking lot adn then straight thru the
intersection.

I'll go by Wendy's this weekend and see if I can find the person
working the drive thru.

Don wrote:
> I recently received a ticket for running a red light. I did run the
> light but I think I had a valid reason.

Fat Chance.

>
> It was late at night and I had gone out to get something to eat. I
> went to the Wendy's drive-thru and while I was ordering some guy was
> trying to bum money from me as I ordered. He said he wanted $1.00 to
> buy gas to get home but this area is bad for panhandling and this was
> probably made up. When I got to the window I told the guy in the
> drive-thru what happened and he sent someone out to run the guy off.
>
> When I got my food I pulled out behind the Wendy's at an exit that is
> between a drug store and McDonald's. From here I would turn right
> and go straight thru an intersection about 50 yards away (McDonalds
is
> on the corner).
>
> As I stated to pull out this bum came up on my driver's side and
> started yelling at me. He quickly moved in front of my car and just
> stood there screaming at me for about 20 seconds shouting something.
> As he moved around to the passenger side I took off turning right.
As
> I pulled out the light at the intersection was already yellow but I
> kept going and it turned red about a second before I went under it.
>
> It was late, traffic was light, and I could see no cars near the
> intersection. I didn't want to stop at the light and have this guy
> come over to my car again. I thought it was best to get out of the
> area.
>
> About a block away a cop pulled me over for running the red light. I
> started telling him about the guy but he said he did not see anyone
and
> he had been in the area all night. I then decided to just drop it
and
> tell it to the judge before I lost my temper and made matters worse.
>
> I did notice a police car at the McDonalds on the corner and it could
> have been the guy who gave me the ticket. Another police officer
> pulled up a few minutes later and it could have been his car I saw.
It
> may not have been either of them.
>
> When I got home I noticed something smeared over the passenger side
of
> my car. I think this guy threw something at my car but I didn't hear
> it hit. It looked like it was a milk shake.
>
> I don't have a history of traffic tickets. In the last 10 years (or
> more) I've had one ticket which was for speeding about 9 months ago
> which I pled NOLO too.
>
> How should I handle this?

Why don't you grow a pair.

>
> Do I plead Not Guilty? I did run the light.

Your call.

> Do I plead Guilty and explain it? But if I do this a Guilty Plea may
> put it on my MVR and cause my insurance to shoot up.

As well it should.

> Does it even matter if I had a good reason to run the light?

Yes it would matter. But you don't so it doesn't matter.

>
> What is the best strategy?
> What should I have done in this situation?

Grow a pair and ignore the bid bad panhandler.

>
> Don

Don wrote:
> I recently received a ticket for running a red light. I did run the
> light but I think I had a valid reason.
>
> It was late at night and I had gone out to get something to eat. I
> went to the Wendy's drive-thru and while I was ordering some guy was
> trying to bum money from me as I ordered. He said he wanted $1.00 to
> buy gas to get home but this area is bad for panhandling and this was
> probably made up. When I got to the window I told the guy in the
> drive-thru what happened and he sent someone out to run the guy off.

You are a pussy. I'd have just given the bum a buck or ignored him. I
sure as hell wouldn't have gone crying to the minimum wage teen handing
out the dead animals.

Hell, that was probably you that was looking for the handout.

Have a good weekend, loser.

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On 25 Feb 2005 11:31:56 -0800, "Don" > wrote:
>
>>I recently received a ticket for running a red light. I did run the
>>light but I think I had a valid reason.
>>
>>It was late at night and I had gone out to get something to eat. I
>>went to the Wendy's drive-thru and while I was ordering some guy was
>>trying to bum money from me as I ordered. He said he wanted $1.00 to
>>buy gas to get home but this area is bad for panhandling and this was
>>probably made up. When I got to the window I told the guy in the
>>drive-thru what happened and he sent someone out to run the guy off.
>
> Those two people are witnesses. Find out who they are and get
> sworn/notarized statements from them.
>
>>When I got home I noticed something smeared over the passenger side of
>>my car. I think this guy threw something at my car but I didn't hear
>>it hit. It looked like it was a milk shake.
>
> That is evidence that your ersonal safety was in jeopardy. Take a
> picture of it and bring that tou court, also.
>
>>Do I plead Not Guilty? I did run the light.
>>Do I plead Guilty and explain it?
>
> How about "Guilty with Extenuating Circumstances?"

There is no such plea. I would plea not guilty and explain this situation
to the judge.

>
>>What should I have done in this situation?
>
> You should have filed an assault report against the bum, and insisted
> that the cop accompany you back to the McDonald's to interview your
> two eye-witnesses.

Assault would not be the correct offense title since no one was assaulted.
Inanimate objects cannot be victims of assault. Also, the violation was for
running the red light so the cops would not be required to return to the
McDonalds because the employees could only witness the bum being there, not
him running the red light. The best bet would be to plea not guilty and
have the restaurant employees "subpoenaed" as witnesses for what it's worth.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

Scott en Aztl=E1n wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:37:36 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>
> >>>Do I plead Not Guilty? I did run the light.
> >>>Do I plead Guilty and explain it?
> >>
> >> How about "Guilty with Extenuating Circumstances?"
> >
> >There is no such plea.
>
> Maybe not in Texas...
>
> True story:
>
> When I was in college, one of the few accidents I was involved in
> occurred when some dumb**** driving a Citation (how appropriate) blew
> through a stop sign and pulled out in front of me on a rain-slick
> road. I was unable to stop and T-boned him just forward of the
> passenger side front door.
>
> Naturally, the driver received a citation. This arrogant mother****er
> had the unmitigated gall to challenge the ticket in court. I was
> called in as a witness.
>
> When this guy was asked how he plead, he replied "guilty with
> extenuating circumstances." The judge did not say "there's no such
> plea;" instead, he asked "what were the circumstances?"
>
> I'm sure you'll have an explanation for that, so lay it on me.

Judges are used to hearing BS stories. Why shouldn't your guy get to
tell his story?

>
> >>>What should I have done in this situation?
> >>
> >> You should have filed an assault report against the bum, and
insisted
> >> that the cop accompany you back to the McDonald's to interview
your
> >> two eye-witnesses.
> >
> >Assault would not be the correct offense title since no one was
assaulted.
>
> Attempted assault then.
>
> >Inanimate objects cannot be victims of assault.
>
> The OP clearly feared for his safety, and was attempting to flee.

Why doesn't the OP just grow a pair? Just cause someone asked you for
money, doesn't mean you can go ape****.

>
> >Also, the violation was for
> >running the red light so the cops would not be required to return to
the
> >McDonalds because the employees could only witness the bum being
there, not
> >him running the red light.
>
> OK, now I understand. These half-witted responses are all a clever
act
> designed to frustrate and infuriate people. Congratulations, you're
an
> exceptionally subtle and clever troll. I can't wait to hear the
clever
> answers you come up with for the following questions:
>
> FORGET about the red light violation for a moment.
>
> Suppose the OP had the same bum encounter he described, but instead
of
> running a red light he flagged an otherise idle officer down. Would
> the officer be expected to investigate the attack?

What attack?

> Would the officer
> perhaps interview the witnesses at the fast food place,

What witnesses? The fast food workers did not observe any interaction
between the OP and the bum, they just heard his complaint. By the same
logic, the officer would have to interview everyone on USENET.

> and maybe even
> try to find the bum and question him?

Don't police officers hassle the homeless enough as is.

> Is there any chance this bum
> broke any laws by throwing things at the OP's car?

Perhaps. But there is a greater chance the OP is full of ****.

> I seem to recall
> that 5 teenaged punks were arrested last year for throuwing a frozen
> turkey through the windshield of a car. What crime were those punks
> charged with? Perhaps similar charges would be appropriate for the
> bum?

Did the milk shake break the windshield of the car?

>
> Once all of this evidence had been collected, is there any
possibility
> it might then be helpful to bolster the OP's explanation to the judge
> of the extenuating circumstances surrounding his failure to stop for
> the red signal?

No.

>
> Just wondering.
>=20
> --=20
> Sloth Kills!
> http://www.geocities.com/slothkills/

Around 2/26/2005 12:37 AM, jaybird wrote:

> "Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On 25 Feb 2005 11:31:56 -0800, "Don" > wrote:
>>
>>>Do I plead Not Guilty? I did run the light.
>>>Do I plead Guilty and explain it?
>>
>>How about "Guilty with Extenuating Circumstances?"
>
>
> There is no such plea.

Sure there is. Here in WA, it's called "Guilty with Mitigating
Circumstances." It's right there on the back of the ticket, immediately
under "Not guilty" and "Guilty."

> I would plea not guilty and explain this situation
> to the judge.

I would too.


--
~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:37:36 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>
>>>>Do I plead Not Guilty? I did run the light.
>>>>Do I plead Guilty and explain it?
>>>
>>> How about "Guilty with Extenuating Circumstances?"
>>
>>There is no such plea.
>
> Maybe not in Texas...
>
> True story:
>
> When I was in college, one of the few accidents I was involved in
> occurred when some dumb**** driving a Citation (how appropriate) blew
> through a stop sign and pulled out in front of me on a rain-slick
> road. I was unable to stop and T-boned him just forward of the
> passenger side front door.
>
> Naturally, the driver received a citation. This arrogant mother****er
> had the unmitigated gall to challenge the ticket in court. I was
> called in as a witness.
>
> When this guy was asked how he plead, he replied "guilty with
> extenuating circumstances." The judge did not say "there's no such
> plea;" instead, he asked "what were the circumstances?"
>
> I'm sure you'll have an explanation for that, so lay it on me.

Nope... glad it worked out for him.

>
>>>>What should I have done in this situation?
>>>
>>> You should have filed an assault report against the bum, and insisted
>>> that the cop accompany you back to the McDonald's to interview your
>>> two eye-witnesses.
>>
>>Assault would not be the correct offense title since no one was assaulted.
>
> Attempted assault then.

Nope.

>
>>Inanimate objects cannot be victims of assault.
>
> The OP clearly feared for his safety, and was attempting to flee.

Ok...

>
>>Also, the violation was for
>>running the red light so the cops would not be required to return to the
>>McDonalds because the employees could only witness the bum being there,
>>not
>>him running the red light.
>
> OK, now I understand. These half-witted responses are all a clever act
> designed to frustrate and infuriate people. Congratulations, you're an
> exceptionally subtle and clever troll. I can't wait to hear the clever
> answers you come up with for the following questions:

No, I just get tired of people making up their own laws. Read your state's
penal code and find the right offense title.

>
> FORGET about the red light violation for a moment.
>
> Suppose the OP had the same bum encounter he described, but instead of
> running a red light he flagged an otherise idle officer down. Would
> the officer be expected to investigate the attack? Would the officer
> perhaps interview the witnesses at the fast food place, and maybe even
> try to find the bum and question him? Is there any chance this bum
> broke any laws by throwing things at the OP's car? I seem to recall
> that 5 teenaged punks were arrested last year for throuwing a frozen
> turkey through the windshield of a car. What crime were those punks
> charged with? Perhaps similar charges would be appropriate for the
> bum?

No, a milkshake is different than a turkey through a windshield. The turkey
incident was probably similar to a Criminal Mischief charge.

>
> Once all of this evidence had been collected, is there any possibility
> it might then be helpful to bolster the OP's explanation to the judge
> of the extenuating circumstances surrounding his failure to stop for
> the red signal?
>
> Just wondering.

The victim of the "milkshake assault" can collect evidence and witnesses all
day long.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.