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ping Daniel Stern was Starving 95 Neon



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 30th 04, 01:06 AM
Bill 2
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Default ping Daniel Stern was Starving 95 Neon


Daniel J. Stern wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Bill Putney wrote:
>
>> maxpower wrote:
>>
>> > Holding your foot to the floor is turning the fuel off with this

vehicle,
>> > that tells me the vehicle was flooded...

>>
>> I doubt it actually turns the fuel off

>
>It doesn't. Maxpower is apparently operating under the delusion that the
>Neon is made by Ford. Some Ford vehicles *do* shut off the fuel if you
>crank them with the accelerator on the floor.


Are you sure of this? I had a cam position sensor go in my Neon (which is
actually made by Chrysler, not Ford), and it took a bit of cranking to
start. I remember that holding the pedal to the floor actually caused it to
not start at all. So I thought it was a little odd that you said there was
no "clear flood" mode in Chryslers.

So I went out to my Neon (which is still made by Chrysler), held my foot to
the floor, and cranked. Sure enough, nothing. If I backed off a bit on the
throttle, it roared to life.

So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler (yes I'm
sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent that there
was a clear flood mode on Chryslers.

Where did you get the idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?


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  #2  
Old October 30th 04, 02:13 AM
Daniel J. Stern
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:

> So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler (yes
> I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
> that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
> idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?


Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.

DS
  #3  
Old October 30th 04, 02:13 AM
Daniel J. Stern
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:

> So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler (yes
> I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
> that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
> idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?


Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.

DS
  #4  
Old October 30th 04, 02:22 AM
Bill 2
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"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>
> > So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler (yes
> > I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
> > that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
> > idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?

>
> Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
> between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.


Did one include a 95 Neon?


  #5  
Old October 30th 04, 02:22 AM
Bill 2
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"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>
> > So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler (yes
> > I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
> > that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
> > idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?

>
> Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
> between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.


Did one include a 95 Neon?


  #6  
Old October 30th 04, 03:28 PM
Daniel J. Stern
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:

> > > So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler (yes
> > > I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
> > > that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
> > > idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?

> >
> > Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
> > between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.

>
> Did one include a 95 Neon?


A '97.


  #7  
Old October 30th 04, 03:28 PM
Daniel J. Stern
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Posts: n/a
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:

> > > So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler (yes
> > > I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
> > > that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
> > > idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?

> >
> > Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
> > between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.

>
> Did one include a 95 Neon?


A '97.


  #8  
Old October 30th 04, 05:49 PM
Matt Whiting
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>
>
>>>>So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler (yes
>>>>I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
>>>>that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
>>>>idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?
>>>
>>>Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
>>>between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.

>>
>>Did one include a 95 Neon?

>
>
> A '97.
>
>


Whatever possessed you to buy a Neon? :-)

  #9  
Old October 30th 04, 05:49 PM
Matt Whiting
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Posts: n/a
Default

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>
>
>>>>So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler (yes
>>>>I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
>>>>that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
>>>>idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?
>>>
>>>Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
>>>between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.

>>
>>Did one include a 95 Neon?

>
>
> A '97.
>
>


Whatever possessed you to buy a Neon? :-)

  #10  
Old October 31st 04, 12:44 AM
Bill
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Default


"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Bill 2 wrote:
>
>> > > So I talked to a guy that does the technician training for Chrysler
>> > > (yes
>> > > I'm sure he doesn't do the Ford training) and he was quite insistent
>> > > that there was a clear flood mode on Chryslers. Where did you get the
>> > > idea that Chryslers didn't have a clear flood mode?
>> >
>> > Oh, y'know, just ownership of six fuel-injected Chrysler products made
>> > between '89 and '97, *none* of which had a "clear-flood" mode.

>>
>> Did one include a 95 Neon?

>
> A '97.
>
>


Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module, SMEC,
SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all had clear
food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2 through 2001 and
RWD vehicles 88 through 95. In 96 all the RWD product got JTEC (Jeep/Truck
Engine Controller) controllers and the JTEC and JTEC+'s also have a clear
flood mode, it just works a little different form the others. The JTEC's and
SBEC's are being replaced by NGC (Next Generation Controller) 1, 2 and 3's.
I haven't looked at those closely, but I bet they have it in some form,
probably the JTEC version.

SBEC/FCC/Power Module - Logic Module version of clear flood works like this:
open the throttle and then crank the engine. When the throttle is opened
with the key on, engine off ; the PCM zeros the pulse width until the RPM
breaks the start to run transfer RPM (about 400 - 450 RPM). If the engine
isn't flooded, then this action will cause a no start condition.

JTEC has 2 pulse widths, cranking pulsewidth and run pulsewidth. To activate
the clear flood mode on these, you must start cranking the engine and then
open the throttle to wide open. If the PCM sees the RPM input from the crank
sensor and then it sees the TPS go to WOT and the crank RPM doesn't get to
the start to run transfer RPM, then the cranking pulsewidth will start
retreating towards 0 mS. This JTEC mode is extremely hard to demonstrate,
but is much more realistic in the way it works.

Bill Sprague, Chrysler technician 1986-1996, Chrysler Technical Trainer
1996-2002


 




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