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ping Daniel Stern was Starving 95 Neon



 
 
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  #31  
Old October 31st 04, 04:54 PM
Bill
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"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
.umich.edu...
> (This should've been directed at Bill Sprague, not Matt Whiting -- sorry,
> Matt)
>
>> Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module,
>> SMEC, SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all
>> had clear food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2
>> through 2001

>
> Sorry, Bill, that may be what your training manual says, but in the real
> world, it's not correct. None of my SBEC AA-bodies ('91 and '92 2.5 TBI,
> '91 2.2 Turbo III, '92 3.0, '92 2.5 Turbo II) has/had a clear-flood mode,
> nor does my SMEC '89 D100 (5.2 TBI).
>
>> open the throttle and then crank the engine. If the engine isn't
>> flooded, then this action will cause a no start condition.

>
> On all the cars I've listed, fully opening the throttle and then cranking
> the engine causes the engine to start and immediately rev, whether the
> throttle is opened before or after the ignition key is turned to "on".
> Clear-flood *does not* exist on these cars.
>
> I've rented Ford products with the clear-flood mode, but none of my
> Chrysler products have had it. Next time you're in Toronto, stop by and
> you can show me this clear-flood mode that doesn't really exist. Perhaps
> it's only *my individual* cars that don't have it, hmmm?
>
> DS


Dan,

Your observation is correct, I did forget about another strategy on most of
those older models that would make the clear flood mode unobservable without
a scan tool. Most of those models you mentioned had a priming pulse from the
injectors at key on. So if you didn't actually have a flooded engine, the
priming pulse would give you enough fuel to cause the RPM to get past the
start to run transfer and then override the clear flood mode because,
obviously the engine wasn't flooded. (with the 3.0L, the injectors leak
enough that clear flood will almost always be overridden)

I do get to Toronto about once a year on my way to Orillia. I will let you
know if I get up there this winter or next spring.

Best regards,
Bill


Ads
  #32  
Old October 31st 04, 09:22 PM
Matt Whiting
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Posts: n/a
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Bill wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Bill wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Sorry, Matt. I'm not going into corporate politics here. It was just time
>>>to go. I still think the product is a good product and I still love
>>>teaching, but now I teach for Volvo Penta, the marine propulsion segment
>>>of Volvo AB.
>>>I occasion this newsgroup, but I don't have a whole lot of time to answer
>>>a bunch of posts, so I pick a few every once in a while and answer them.

>>
>>I was just curious.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Bill
>>>
>>>And Matt, I think it was you that told me earlier that posting at the top
>>>was for newbies

>>
>>Very likely, as it is. So why are you still doing it? Good teachers
>>should be good learners also! :-)
>>
>>Even if bottom posting hadn't been a convention since the dawn of ARPAnet,
>>it simply makes sense. English writing people write and read from the top
>>down. Bottom posting maintains the chronology in the direction we read.
>>I'm amazed that otherwise logical people can't figure this out.
>>
>>
>>Matt
>>

>
>
> Then why is the Microsoft default in Outlook Express at the top ?
>
> Bill
>
>


Yes, I have the same problem with Outlook at work. Leave it to MS to be
both illogical and different at the same time. That is why I still use
Netscape for mail and news.


Matt

  #33  
Old October 31st 04, 09:22 PM
Matt Whiting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bill wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Bill wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Sorry, Matt. I'm not going into corporate politics here. It was just time
>>>to go. I still think the product is a good product and I still love
>>>teaching, but now I teach for Volvo Penta, the marine propulsion segment
>>>of Volvo AB.
>>>I occasion this newsgroup, but I don't have a whole lot of time to answer
>>>a bunch of posts, so I pick a few every once in a while and answer them.

>>
>>I was just curious.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Bill
>>>
>>>And Matt, I think it was you that told me earlier that posting at the top
>>>was for newbies

>>
>>Very likely, as it is. So why are you still doing it? Good teachers
>>should be good learners also! :-)
>>
>>Even if bottom posting hadn't been a convention since the dawn of ARPAnet,
>>it simply makes sense. English writing people write and read from the top
>>down. Bottom posting maintains the chronology in the direction we read.
>>I'm amazed that otherwise logical people can't figure this out.
>>
>>
>>Matt
>>

>
>
> Then why is the Microsoft default in Outlook Express at the top ?
>
> Bill
>
>


Yes, I have the same problem with Outlook at work. Leave it to MS to be
both illogical and different at the same time. That is why I still use
Netscape for mail and news.


Matt

  #34  
Old October 31st 04, 09:23 PM
Matt Whiting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

>
> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module,
>>SMEC, SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all
>>had clear food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2
>>through 2001

>
>
> Sorry, Matt, that may be what your book says, but in the real world, it's
> not correct. None of my AA-bodies (2.5 TBI, 2.2 Turbo III, 3.0) has/had a
> clear-flood mode, nor does my '89 D100 (5.2 TBI).
>
> Next time you're in Toronto, stop by and you can show me this clear-flood
> mode that doesn't exist. Perhaps it's only *my individual* cars that don't
> have it, hmmm?
>
> DS
>
>


Sorry, Dan, but I didn't post the above. As soon as you learn to use
your newsreader, I'll stop by and then we'll straighten you out on how
your ECU works. :-)


Matt

  #35  
Old October 31st 04, 09:23 PM
Matt Whiting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

>
> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Sorry, Dan. You are wrong on this one. All Power module/Logic module,
>>SMEC, SBEC 1, 2 2A, 2B, SBEC3, 3A, and 3+'s and FCC controllers have all
>>had clear food modes. That list covers all FWD vehicles from 83 1/2
>>through 2001

>
>
> Sorry, Matt, that may be what your book says, but in the real world, it's
> not correct. None of my AA-bodies (2.5 TBI, 2.2 Turbo III, 3.0) has/had a
> clear-flood mode, nor does my '89 D100 (5.2 TBI).
>
> Next time you're in Toronto, stop by and you can show me this clear-flood
> mode that doesn't exist. Perhaps it's only *my individual* cars that don't
> have it, hmmm?
>
> DS
>
>


Sorry, Dan, but I didn't post the above. As soon as you learn to use
your newsreader, I'll stop by and then we'll straighten you out on how
your ECU works. :-)


Matt

  #36  
Old November 1st 04, 07:54 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Bill wrote:

> >> all had clear food modes.


> > None of my SBEC AA-bodies ('91 and '92 2.5 TBI, '91 2.2 Turbo III, '92
> > 3.0, '92 2.5 Turbo II) has/had a clear-flood mode, nor does my SMEC
> > '89 D100 (5.2 TBI). Opening the throttle and then cranking the engine
> > causes the engine to start and immediately rev, whether the throttle
> > is opened before or after the ignition key is turned to "on".


> Your observation is correct, I did forget about another strategy on most
> of those older models that would make the clear flood mode unobservable
> without a scan tool.


Now *this* makes good sense -- rare indeed is the flooded EFI engine;
certainly a clear-flood mode would get (I'm guessing) perhaps 1/1000 the
use over the life of the car of the device it replaced, the carburetor
choke unloader tang.

> (with the 3.0L, the injectors leak enough that clear flood will almost
> always be overridden)


*HAH!* Very true, that.

> I do get to Toronto about once a year on my way to Orillia. I will let you
> know if I get up there this winter or next spring.


Please do! (Ain'tchya even a little bit curious about the SBEC calibration
on my list that kinda sorta shouldn't really exist?)
  #37  
Old November 1st 04, 07:54 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Bill wrote:

> >> all had clear food modes.


> > None of my SBEC AA-bodies ('91 and '92 2.5 TBI, '91 2.2 Turbo III, '92
> > 3.0, '92 2.5 Turbo II) has/had a clear-flood mode, nor does my SMEC
> > '89 D100 (5.2 TBI). Opening the throttle and then cranking the engine
> > causes the engine to start and immediately rev, whether the throttle
> > is opened before or after the ignition key is turned to "on".


> Your observation is correct, I did forget about another strategy on most
> of those older models that would make the clear flood mode unobservable
> without a scan tool.


Now *this* makes good sense -- rare indeed is the flooded EFI engine;
certainly a clear-flood mode would get (I'm guessing) perhaps 1/1000 the
use over the life of the car of the device it replaced, the carburetor
choke unloader tang.

> (with the 3.0L, the injectors leak enough that clear flood will almost
> always be overridden)


*HAH!* Very true, that.

> I do get to Toronto about once a year on my way to Orillia. I will let you
> know if I get up there this winter or next spring.


Please do! (Ain'tchya even a little bit curious about the SBEC calibration
on my list that kinda sorta shouldn't really exist?)
  #38  
Old November 2nd 04, 01:15 AM
Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Bill wrote:
>
>> >> all had clear food modes.

>
>> > None of my SBEC AA-bodies ('91 and '92 2.5 TBI, '91 2.2 Turbo III, '92
>> > 3.0, '92 2.5 Turbo II) has/had a clear-flood mode, nor does my SMEC
>> > '89 D100 (5.2 TBI). Opening the throttle and then cranking the engine
>> > causes the engine to start and immediately rev, whether the throttle
>> > is opened before or after the ignition key is turned to "on".

>
>> Your observation is correct, I did forget about another strategy on most
>> of those older models that would make the clear flood mode unobservable
>> without a scan tool.

>
> Now *this* makes good sense -- rare indeed is the flooded EFI engine;
> certainly a clear-flood mode would get (I'm guessing) perhaps 1/1000 the
> use over the life of the car of the device it replaced, the carburetor
> choke unloader tang.
>
>> (with the 3.0L, the injectors leak enough that clear flood will almost
>> always be overridden)

>
> *HAH!* Very true, that.
>
>> I do get to Toronto about once a year on my way to Orillia. I will let
>> you
>> know if I get up there this winter or next spring.

>
> Please do! (Ain'tchya even a little bit curious about the SBEC calibration
> on my list that kinda sorta shouldn't really exist?)


Dan, too much water over the dam on that one. You will have to tell me which
one shouldn't exist and why. That's like asking me to remember prehistoric
history. All those models are ancient history to me now. Of the ones you
mention, the rarest engine is the turbo3. There were very few built. I was
thinking that the turbo2 ended before 92, they came out in 87 but I don't
remember which year they ended.

Bill


  #39  
Old November 2nd 04, 01:15 AM
Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Bill wrote:
>
>> >> all had clear food modes.

>
>> > None of my SBEC AA-bodies ('91 and '92 2.5 TBI, '91 2.2 Turbo III, '92
>> > 3.0, '92 2.5 Turbo II) has/had a clear-flood mode, nor does my SMEC
>> > '89 D100 (5.2 TBI). Opening the throttle and then cranking the engine
>> > causes the engine to start and immediately rev, whether the throttle
>> > is opened before or after the ignition key is turned to "on".

>
>> Your observation is correct, I did forget about another strategy on most
>> of those older models that would make the clear flood mode unobservable
>> without a scan tool.

>
> Now *this* makes good sense -- rare indeed is the flooded EFI engine;
> certainly a clear-flood mode would get (I'm guessing) perhaps 1/1000 the
> use over the life of the car of the device it replaced, the carburetor
> choke unloader tang.
>
>> (with the 3.0L, the injectors leak enough that clear flood will almost
>> always be overridden)

>
> *HAH!* Very true, that.
>
>> I do get to Toronto about once a year on my way to Orillia. I will let
>> you
>> know if I get up there this winter or next spring.

>
> Please do! (Ain'tchya even a little bit curious about the SBEC calibration
> on my list that kinda sorta shouldn't really exist?)


Dan, too much water over the dam on that one. You will have to tell me which
one shouldn't exist and why. That's like asking me to remember prehistoric
history. All those models are ancient history to me now. Of the ones you
mention, the rarest engine is the turbo3. There were very few built. I was
thinking that the turbo2 ended before 92, they came out in 87 but I don't
remember which year they ended.

Bill


 




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