In-the-tank fuel pumps cause death and destruction

"Al Smith" > wrote in message >...
> "Silver Surfer" > wrote in message
> news:Mrfgd.327682$3l3.233758@attbi_s03...
> > Maybe I'm dense or something, but how can the in-tank fuel pump be blamed
> > for these two incidents?

>>> Snip >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>

I have found that one cannot be too careful when working with
gasoline.

Last winter, a person in my neighborhood was working on his motorcycle
in his carport. He setup an electric heater to keep warm. He
disconnected the fuel line, and some gasoline spilled out on the
floor. As soon as the fumes came in contact with the heater, well you
can imagine what happened. The cold dry air didn't help either.

Because the fire dept. was able to respond quickly, most of the damage
was confined to the carport. The bike was a total loss.

-Kirk Matheson

"Al Smith" > wrote in message >...
> "Silver Surfer" > wrote in message
> news:Mrfgd.327682$3l3.233758@attbi_s03...
> > Maybe I'm dense or something, but how can the in-tank fuel pump be blamed
> > for these two incidents?

>>> Snip >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>

I have found that one cannot be too careful when working with
gasoline.

Last winter, a person in my neighborhood was working on his motorcycle
in his carport. He setup an electric heater to keep warm. He
disconnected the fuel line, and some gasoline spilled out on the
floor. As soon as the fumes came in contact with the heater, well you
can imagine what happened. The cold dry air didn't help either.

Because the fire dept. was able to respond quickly, most of the damage
was confined to the carport. The bike was a total loss.

-Kirk Matheson

AMEN to that!
"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
> When A liar, i mean lawyer sees a chance to make money, this is what you
> get
> "Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
> ...
> A Google search found two serious fires, happening on the same day, one
> fire causing death and the other perhaps a million dollars damage as a
> result of servicing in-the-tank fuel pumps. Had these fuel pumps been
> placed externally, as the usual and proven practice for more than 70
> years,
> these accidents would have been prevented. Legislation is badly needed to
> address this serious design deficiency as professional mechanics as well
> as
> amateurs are exposed to deadly danger by a totally unnecessary fuel system
> configuration. In the meantime, lawyers should file a class action as all
> manufacturers are currently using dangerous in-tank pumps and millions of
> cars are affected. This suit is worth billions and billions. At the very
> least, all cars should be retrofitted with new tanks and external pumps by
> mechanics wearing fire suits and guarded by fire crews. The changeover
> will save hundreds of lives and much damages while costing much deserved
> hundreds of millions of dollars of expense to the responsible capitalist
> titans, all of whom are totally devoid of industrial ethics.
>
> News Story One:
>
> Thursday, October 28, 2004 · Last updated 4:11 a.m. PT
>
> Inhalation of toxins blamed for Des Moines fire death
>
> THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
>
> DES MOINES, Wash. -- A man who died in a garage fire after gasoline
> spilled
> out of a truck that was being repaired died partly from inhaling toxic
> fumes, investigators said.
>
> David E. Russ, 61, identified Wednesday as the dead man, also had burns on
> more than 90 percent of his body, investigators in the King County medical
> examiner's office said.
>
> Russ and two other men was trying to replace the fuel pump on a pickup
> truck Monday when the leaking fuel caught fire as the trio tried to push
> the truck out of a detached garage.
>
> All three ran outside, but Russ went back in and was trapped when the roof
> collapsed, Fire Battalion Chief Victor Pennington said.
>
> News Story Two:
>
> Local auto dealership heavily damaged in fire
> By Virgil Cochran
> Lamar Daily News
>
>
> Thursday, October 28, 2004 -
>
>
> Tri-County Ford on Highway 50-287 north of Lamar was severely damaged by a
> midmorning fire yesterday, but the manager Jeff Travis said the business
> will be up and running again in just a few days.
>
> Travis and Prowers County Rural Fire Chief Marvin Rosencrans said the fire
> began when mechanics were attempting to drain a fuel tank on a vehicle in
> the mechanic shop to replace a fuel pump. A fuel transfer pump developed
> an
> electrical short, which triggered the blaze.
>
> It rapidly engulfed the shop area of the building, but everyone managed to
> get out safely, Travis said.
>
> Tri-County will have temporary office trailers set up on the lot by next
> week, Travis said, and will be open for sales of new and used vehicles. In
> the meantime, all automobiles for sale will remain on the lot, and
> customers are welcome to drop by and shop, and even negotiate deals. But
> the business won't be able to finalize deals until the temporary offices
> are set up and computer equipment is up and running again next week.
>
> Travis said Tri-County is also negotiating for temporary headquarters for
> its mechanic shops, but it may be a few more days before the shop
> functions
> of the business are up and running.
>
> Eight cars in the service area were destroyed and the service garage
> itself
> was heavily damaged if not totally destroyed, but Rosencrans said damage
> to
> the office and parts storage area was limited to mostly smoke and water
> damage.
>
> Local firefighters were called to the scene about 10:40 a.m. yesterday,
> and
> the Prowers Rural Fire Department was assisted by the Lamar, Wiley, and
> Holly Fire Departments.
>
> As for the existing building, Travis said the business was well insured
> and
> that he would meet with insurance adjusters sometime today.
>
>
>

AMEN to that!
"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
> When A liar, i mean lawyer sees a chance to make money, this is what you
> get
> "Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
> ...
> A Google search found two serious fires, happening on the same day, one
> fire causing death and the other perhaps a million dollars damage as a
> result of servicing in-the-tank fuel pumps. Had these fuel pumps been
> placed externally, as the usual and proven practice for more than 70
> years,
> these accidents would have been prevented. Legislation is badly needed to
> address this serious design deficiency as professional mechanics as well
> as
> amateurs are exposed to deadly danger by a totally unnecessary fuel system
> configuration. In the meantime, lawyers should file a class action as all
> manufacturers are currently using dangerous in-tank pumps and millions of
> cars are affected. This suit is worth billions and billions. At the very
> least, all cars should be retrofitted with new tanks and external pumps by
> mechanics wearing fire suits and guarded by fire crews. The changeover
> will save hundreds of lives and much damages while costing much deserved
> hundreds of millions of dollars of expense to the responsible capitalist
> titans, all of whom are totally devoid of industrial ethics.
>
> News Story One:
>
> Thursday, October 28, 2004 · Last updated 4:11 a.m. PT
>
> Inhalation of toxins blamed for Des Moines fire death
>
> THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
>
> DES MOINES, Wash. -- A man who died in a garage fire after gasoline
> spilled
> out of a truck that was being repaired died partly from inhaling toxic
> fumes, investigators said.
>
> David E. Russ, 61, identified Wednesday as the dead man, also had burns on
> more than 90 percent of his body, investigators in the King County medical
> examiner's office said.
>
> Russ and two other men was trying to replace the fuel pump on a pickup
> truck Monday when the leaking fuel caught fire as the trio tried to push
> the truck out of a detached garage.
>
> All three ran outside, but Russ went back in and was trapped when the roof
> collapsed, Fire Battalion Chief Victor Pennington said.
>
> News Story Two:
>
> Local auto dealership heavily damaged in fire
> By Virgil Cochran
> Lamar Daily News
>
>
> Thursday, October 28, 2004 -
>
>
> Tri-County Ford on Highway 50-287 north of Lamar was severely damaged by a
> midmorning fire yesterday, but the manager Jeff Travis said the business
> will be up and running again in just a few days.
>
> Travis and Prowers County Rural Fire Chief Marvin Rosencrans said the fire
> began when mechanics were attempting to drain a fuel tank on a vehicle in
> the mechanic shop to replace a fuel pump. A fuel transfer pump developed
> an
> electrical short, which triggered the blaze.
>
> It rapidly engulfed the shop area of the building, but everyone managed to
> get out safely, Travis said.
>
> Tri-County will have temporary office trailers set up on the lot by next
> week, Travis said, and will be open for sales of new and used vehicles. In
> the meantime, all automobiles for sale will remain on the lot, and
> customers are welcome to drop by and shop, and even negotiate deals. But
> the business won't be able to finalize deals until the temporary offices
> are set up and computer equipment is up and running again next week.
>
> Travis said Tri-County is also negotiating for temporary headquarters for
> its mechanic shops, but it may be a few more days before the shop
> functions
> of the business are up and running.
>
> Eight cars in the service area were destroyed and the service garage
> itself
> was heavily damaged if not totally destroyed, but Rosencrans said damage
> to
> the office and parts storage area was limited to mostly smoke and water
> damage.
>
> Local firefighters were called to the scene about 10:40 a.m. yesterday,
> and
> the Prowers Rural Fire Department was assisted by the Lamar, Wiley, and
> Holly Fire Departments.
>
> As for the existing building, Travis said the business was well insured
> and
> that he would meet with insurance adjusters sometime today.
>
>
>

actually a FULL gas tank is safer because of less fumes in the tank
"Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
...
> Have you all observed that not one automobile has a drain valve installed
> to the fuel tank? Obviously, a drain valve installed at the tank sump
> would safely allow the complete drainage of a fuel tank before
> in-tank-fuel
> pump or fuel gauge sending unit servicing. To the drain valve, a length
> of
> hose would be attached and led to one or more 5 gallon Jerry cans. Once
> drained, the fuel tanks are much safer to work on, although caution should
> still be exercised.
>
> Attempting to drain a fuel tank by disconnecting the fuel outlet hose and
> attaching a shop pump will drain all the usable fuel, but not all the
> fuel.
> A gallon or more gasoline will be retained in the tank.
>
> Fuel tank drain valves have always been required on aircraft, but totally
> ignored for cars. They are useful for draining water and or other
> contaminants. I am sure that is a useful feature for mechanics trying to
> efficiently diagnose or correct a refractory fuel system problem.
>
> There may be a few objections to a drain valve, but there are workarounds.
> 1. Makes it easy to steal fuel. 2. Vandalism and arson. 3. Accidental
> collision damage to valve and resultant fuel leakage. 4. Leakage. 5.
> Cost
> Workarounds are 1. build in key lock 2. build in key lock 3. Locate tank
> higher than low point of nearby structures 4. install screw cap as per
> fuel
> injection rail shraeder valve. 5. cost is a non-issue for safety,
> particularly on $30,000 plus cars.
>
> A drainable fuel tank makes fuel pump servicing safer than presently;
> however, an external pump design is still much safer yet. One reader
> suggested that the mechanic wait until the fuel level is half or less --
> good luck if you fill your tank and 10 minutes later the pump quits. When
> the pump quits, the engine stops right now! Now, if you had a DUAL fuel
> pump system, you actually could run the fuel level down. I have addressed
> this issue befo dual pumps, automatic controls, and warning indicators
> when one fails.
>
> Think your car is advanced? There are four self-locking nuts on a
> Wal-Mart
> shopping cart. They retain the casters. How many self-locking nuts are
> on
> your $30,000 car. My car has none that I'm aware of. Car manufacturers
> will do anything to avoid self lockers because of cost. Instead, auto
> engineers did their own work-around for plain fasteners. They specify
> torques at least 150% the maximum recommended by fastener torque tables.
> Check it out. Every important fastener on your car is overtightened and
> overstressed.
>
>

actually a FULL gas tank is safer because of less fumes in the tank
"Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
...
> Have you all observed that not one automobile has a drain valve installed
> to the fuel tank? Obviously, a drain valve installed at the tank sump
> would safely allow the complete drainage of a fuel tank before
> in-tank-fuel
> pump or fuel gauge sending unit servicing. To the drain valve, a length
> of
> hose would be attached and led to one or more 5 gallon Jerry cans. Once
> drained, the fuel tanks are much safer to work on, although caution should
> still be exercised.
>
> Attempting to drain a fuel tank by disconnecting the fuel outlet hose and
> attaching a shop pump will drain all the usable fuel, but not all the
> fuel.
> A gallon or more gasoline will be retained in the tank.
>
> Fuel tank drain valves have always been required on aircraft, but totally
> ignored for cars. They are useful for draining water and or other
> contaminants. I am sure that is a useful feature for mechanics trying to
> efficiently diagnose or correct a refractory fuel system problem.
>
> There may be a few objections to a drain valve, but there are workarounds.
> 1. Makes it easy to steal fuel. 2. Vandalism and arson. 3. Accidental
> collision damage to valve and resultant fuel leakage. 4. Leakage. 5.
> Cost
> Workarounds are 1. build in key lock 2. build in key lock 3. Locate tank
> higher than low point of nearby structures 4. install screw cap as per
> fuel
> injection rail shraeder valve. 5. cost is a non-issue for safety,
> particularly on $30,000 plus cars.
>
> A drainable fuel tank makes fuel pump servicing safer than presently;
> however, an external pump design is still much safer yet. One reader
> suggested that the mechanic wait until the fuel level is half or less --
> good luck if you fill your tank and 10 minutes later the pump quits. When
> the pump quits, the engine stops right now! Now, if you had a DUAL fuel
> pump system, you actually could run the fuel level down. I have addressed
> this issue befo dual pumps, automatic controls, and warning indicators
> when one fails.
>
> Think your car is advanced? There are four self-locking nuts on a
> Wal-Mart
> shopping cart. They retain the casters. How many self-locking nuts are
> on
> your $30,000 car. My car has none that I'm aware of. Car manufacturers
> will do anything to avoid self lockers because of cost. Instead, auto
> engineers did their own work-around for plain fasteners. They specify
> torques at least 150% the maximum recommended by fastener torque tables.
> Check it out. Every important fastener on your car is overtightened and
> overstressed.
>
>

"Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
...
There are four self-locking nuts on a Wal-Mart
> shopping cart.
>

There's one NUT right here in this newsgroup, Why, it's YOU Nomen!!!!

"Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
...
There are four self-locking nuts on a Wal-Mart
> shopping cart.
>

There's one NUT right here in this newsgroup, Why, it's YOU Nomen!!!!

Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Have you all observed that not one automobile has a drain valve installed
> to the fuel tank? Obviously, a drain valve installed at the tank sump
> would safely allow the complete drainage of a fuel tank before in-tank-fuel
> pump or fuel gauge sending unit servicing. To the drain valve, a length of
> hose would be attached and led to one or more 5 gallon Jerry cans. Once
> drained, the fuel tanks are much safer to work on, although caution should
> still be exercised.
>
> Attempting to drain a fuel tank by disconnecting the fuel outlet hose and
> attaching a shop pump will drain all the usable fuel, but not all the fuel.
> A gallon or more gasoline will be retained in the tank.
>
> Fuel tank drain valves have always been required on aircraft, but totally
> ignored for cars. They are useful for draining water and or other
> contaminants. I am sure that is a useful feature for mechanics trying to
> efficiently diagnose or correct a refractory fuel system problem.
>
> There may be a few objections to a drain valve, but there are workarounds.
> 1. Makes it easy to steal fuel. 2. Vandalism and arson. 3. Accidental
> collision damage to valve and resultant fuel leakage. 4. Leakage. 5. Cost
> Workarounds are 1. build in key lock 2. build in key lock 3. Locate tank
> higher than low point of nearby structures 4. install screw cap as per fuel
> injection rail shraeder valve. 5. cost is a non-issue for safety,
> particularly on $30,000 plus cars.
>
> A drainable fuel tank makes fuel pump servicing safer than presently;
> however, an external pump design is still much safer yet. One reader
> suggested that the mechanic wait until the fuel level is half or less --
> good luck if you fill your tank and 10 minutes later the pump quits. When
> the pump quits, the engine stops right now! Now, if you had a DUAL fuel
> pump system, you actually could run the fuel level down. I have addressed
> this issue befo dual pumps, automatic controls, and warning indicators
> when one fails.
>
> Think your car is advanced? There are four self-locking nuts on a Wal-Mart
> shopping cart. They retain the casters. How many self-locking nuts are on
> your $30,000 car. My car has none that I'm aware of. Car manufacturers
> will do anything to avoid self lockers because of cost. Instead, auto
> engineers did their own work-around for plain fasteners. They specify
> torques at least 150% the maximum recommended by fastener torque tables.
> Check it out. Every important fastener on your car is overtightened and
> overstressed.
>
>
Please cite references for for your accusations

Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Have you all observed that not one automobile has a drain valve installed
> to the fuel tank? Obviously, a drain valve installed at the tank sump
> would safely allow the complete drainage of a fuel tank before in-tank-fuel
> pump or fuel gauge sending unit servicing. To the drain valve, a length of
> hose would be attached and led to one or more 5 gallon Jerry cans. Once
> drained, the fuel tanks are much safer to work on, although caution should
> still be exercised.
>
> Attempting to drain a fuel tank by disconnecting the fuel outlet hose and
> attaching a shop pump will drain all the usable fuel, but not all the fuel.
> A gallon or more gasoline will be retained in the tank.
>
> Fuel tank drain valves have always been required on aircraft, but totally
> ignored for cars. They are useful for draining water and or other
> contaminants. I am sure that is a useful feature for mechanics trying to
> efficiently diagnose or correct a refractory fuel system problem.
>
> There may be a few objections to a drain valve, but there are workarounds.
> 1. Makes it easy to steal fuel. 2. Vandalism and arson. 3. Accidental
> collision damage to valve and resultant fuel leakage. 4. Leakage. 5. Cost
> Workarounds are 1. build in key lock 2. build in key lock 3. Locate tank
> higher than low point of nearby structures 4. install screw cap as per fuel
> injection rail shraeder valve. 5. cost is a non-issue for safety,
> particularly on $30,000 plus cars.
>
> A drainable fuel tank makes fuel pump servicing safer than presently;
> however, an external pump design is still much safer yet. One reader
> suggested that the mechanic wait until the fuel level is half or less --
> good luck if you fill your tank and 10 minutes later the pump quits. When
> the pump quits, the engine stops right now! Now, if you had a DUAL fuel
> pump system, you actually could run the fuel level down. I have addressed
> this issue befo dual pumps, automatic controls, and warning indicators
> when one fails.
>
> Think your car is advanced? There are four self-locking nuts on a Wal-Mart
> shopping cart. They retain the casters. How many self-locking nuts are on
> your $30,000 car. My car has none that I'm aware of. Car manufacturers
> will do anything to avoid self lockers because of cost. Instead, auto
> engineers did their own work-around for plain fasteners. They specify
> torques at least 150% the maximum recommended by fastener torque tables.
> Check it out. Every important fastener on your car is overtightened and
> overstressed.
>
>
Please cite references for for your accusations