Wheels' Lug nuts loosened unexpectedly

Last month I rotated the wheels on the '06 Camry, from front
to back. Yesterday I re-torqued them after 350 miles of driving
and five weeks.

All the lug nuts on the two rear wheels did not turn even
a bit; they were perfectly torqued. But 4 out of 5 lug nuts on
the passenger-side front wheel turned a little bit, less than a
quarter turn--probably about an eighth of a turn (1/8 turn).

On the driver-side front wheel, 2 out of 5 lug nuts also turned
about 1/8 of a turn when I re-torqued them.

I know these 6 loosened lug nuts on the two front wheels
lost more than 5 foot-pounds of their original 76 foot-pound
torque setting because yesterday to re-torque them, I set my
torque wrench at 71 foot-pounds, which is 5 less than the
76 foot-pounds I torqued them to last month during the
5,000-mile wheel rotation.

Is this greater-than-5-foot-pound loosening of some of the
lug nuts on the front wheels something to be concerned
about? I'd like to wait until the next 5,000-mile wheel rotation
before re-torquing the wheels again. Is this advisable, or should
I check and re-torque the wheels more often?

Built_Well wrote:
> Last month I rotated the wheels on the '06 Camry, from front
> to back. Yesterday I re-torqued them after 350 miles of driving
> and five weeks.
>
> All the lug nuts on the two rear wheels did not turn even
> a bit; they were perfectly torqued. But 4 out of 5 lug nuts on
> the passenger-side front wheel turned a little bit, less than a
> quarter turn--probably about an eighth of a turn (1/8 turn).
>
> On the driver-side front wheel, 2 out of 5 lug nuts also turned
> about 1/8 of a turn when I re-torqued them.
>
> I know these 6 loosened lug nuts on the two front wheels
> lost more than 5 foot-pounds of their original 76 foot-pound
> torque setting because yesterday to re-torque them, I set my
> torque wrench at 71 foot-pounds, which is 5 less than the
> 76 foot-pounds I torqued them to last month during the
> 5,000-mile wheel rotation.
>
> Is this greater-than-5-foot-pound loosening of some of the
> lug nuts on the front wheels something to be concerned
> about? I'd like to wait until the next 5,000-mile wheel rotation
> before re-torquing the wheels again. Is this advisable, or should
> I check and re-torque the wheels more often?

Torque them as many times as you feel like.
Was the temperature of the wheels and hubs identical from front to back?
Are the mating surfaces clean?

Paul wrote:
>
> Was the temperature of the wheels and hubs identical from
> front to back? Are the mating surfaces clean?
==========

Well, on that particular day, yesterday, the temperature of
the wheels and hubs was much warmer on the front wheels than
the rear wheels, because the sun was hitting only the front
half of the car. The rear half was in the shade. I happened
to notice a temperature difference between the front wheels and
rear wheels when I touched them during the re-torquing.

Yep, the mating surfaces were all clean. I cleaned them
really well last month with a soft shop rag during the rotation.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:57:34 -0700 (PDT), Built_Well
> wrote:

>
>Last month I rotated the wheels on the '06 Camry, from front
>to back. Yesterday I re-torqued them after 350 miles of driving
>and five weeks.
>
>All the lug nuts on the two rear wheels did not turn even
>a bit; they were perfectly torqued. But 4 out of 5 lug nuts on
>the passenger-side front wheel turned a little bit, less than a
>quarter turn--probably about an eighth of a turn (1/8 turn).
>
>On the driver-side front wheel, 2 out of 5 lug nuts also turned
>about 1/8 of a turn when I re-torqued them.
>
>I know these 6 loosened lug nuts on the two front wheels
>lost more than 5 foot-pounds of their original 76 foot-pound
>torque setting because yesterday to re-torque them, I set my
>torque wrench at 71 foot-pounds, which is 5 less than the
>76 foot-pounds I torqued them to last month during the
>5,000-mile wheel rotation.
>
>Is this greater-than-5-foot-pound loosening of some of the
>lug nuts on the front wheels something to be concerned
>about? I'd like to wait until the next 5,000-mile wheel rotation
>before re-torquing the wheels again. Is this advisable, or should
>I check and re-torque the wheels more often?

I hate to say it but it sounds like you didn't torque the front wheels
properly. Did you come up on the proper torque in stages using a
criss-cross pattern? After you torqued the nuts to 76 ft/lbs did you
back them off, one at a time, and re-torque to 76 again?

If you didn't use a criss-cross pattern, it's possible that you got a
bit of a warp in the wheel or the rotor which worked itself out as you
drove the car. Backing off and re-torquing makes sure that your lug
nut is seated against the wheel properly.

Jack

Retired VIP wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:57:34 -0700 (PDT), Built_Well
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Last month I rotated the wheels on the '06 Camry, from front
> >to back. Yesterday I re-torqued them after 350 miles of driving
> >and five weeks.
> >
> >All the lug nuts on the two rear wheels did not turn even
> >a bit; they were perfectly torqued. But 4 out of 5 lug nuts on
> >the passenger-side front wheel turned a little bit, less than a
> >quarter turn--probably about an eighth of a turn (1/8 turn).
> >
> >On the driver-side front wheel, 2 out of 5 lug nuts also turned
> >about 1/8 of a turn when I re-torqued them.
> >
> >I know these 6 loosened lug nuts on the two front wheels
> >lost more than 5 foot-pounds of their original 76 foot-pound
> >torque setting because yesterday to re-torque them, I set my
> >torque wrench at 71 foot-pounds, which is 5 less than the
> >76 foot-pounds I torqued them to last month during the
> >5,000-mile wheel rotation.
> >
> >Is this greater-than-5-foot-pound loosening of some of the
> >lug nuts on the front wheels something to be concerned
> >about? I'd like to wait until the next 5,000-mile wheel rotation
> >before re-torquing the wheels again. Is this advisable, or should
> >I check and re-torque the wheels more often?
>
> I hate to say it but it sounds like you didn't torque the front wheels
> properly. Did you come up on the proper torque in stages using a
> criss-cross pattern? After you torqued the nuts to 76 ft/lbs did you
> back them off, one at a time, and re-torque to 76 again?
>
> If you didn't use a criss-cross pattern, it's possible that you got a
> bit of a warp in the wheel or the rotor which worked itself out as you
> drove the car. Backing off and re-torquing makes sure that your lug
> nut is seated against the wheel properly.
>
> Jack
=========================

Yes, I used a criss-cross or star pattern, and torqued
each set of lug nuts gradually, first to 40, then to 60,
then 76.

I also re-torqued everything last month during the rotation, but
what do you mean by "back them off, one at a time, and re-torque
to 76 again."

"Built_Well" > wrote in message
...
>
> Last month I rotated the wheels on the '06 Camry, from front
> to back. Yesterday I re-torqued them after 350 miles of driving
> and five weeks.
>
> All the lug nuts on the two rear wheels did not turn even
> a bit; they were perfectly torqued. But 4 out of 5 lug nuts on
> the passenger-side front wheel turned a little bit, less than a
> quarter turn--probably about an eighth of a turn (1/8 turn).
>
> On the driver-side front wheel, 2 out of 5 lug nuts also turned
> about 1/8 of a turn when I re-torqued them.
>
> I know these 6 loosened lug nuts on the two front wheels
> lost more than 5 foot-pounds of their original 76 foot-pound
> torque setting because yesterday to re-torque them, I set my
> torque wrench at 71 foot-pounds, which is 5 less than the
> 76 foot-pounds I torqued them to last month during the
> 5,000-mile wheel rotation.
>
> Is this greater-than-5-foot-pound loosening of some of the
> lug nuts on the front wheels something to be concerned
> about? I'd like to wait until the next 5,000-mile wheel rotation
> before re-torquing the wheels again. Is this advisable, or should
> I check and re-torque the wheels more often?


I would not worry about it. Retorque them and worry that your beer is
getting warm.

The rear tires merely carry the car's ass around. The front tires handle
drive and steering inputs, and greater than half of the braking duties.

Somebody asked about the heat, and you noted that one end of the car was in
the shade -- that's not the kind of heat he was talking about. He was trying
to get you to look at operational heat caused by the braking balance causing
the front brakes to work harder than the rear, therefore generating more
heat.

Built_Well wrote:
> 4 out of 5 lug nuts on
> the passenger-side front wheel turned a little bit
====
I rotate aluminum alloy wheels at 5K and re torque them cold the
following morning.
They always move a bit more, after using staged torque, three passes,
final 82 ft. lbs.
After checking the torque again following morning, I check again 30
days laters and they're always fine.

No, you should torque them all properly the FIRST time.

"Built_Well" > wrote in message
...
>
> Last month I rotated the wheels on the '06 Camry, from front
> to back. Yesterday I re-torqued them after 350 miles of driving
> and five weeks.
>
> All the lug nuts on the two rear wheels did not turn even
> a bit; they were perfectly torqued. But 4 out of 5 lug nuts on
> the passenger-side front wheel turned a little bit, less than a
> quarter turn--probably about an eighth of a turn (1/8 turn).
>
> On the driver-side front wheel, 2 out of 5 lug nuts also turned
> about 1/8 of a turn when I re-torqued them.
>
> I know these 6 loosened lug nuts on the two front wheels
> lost more than 5 foot-pounds of their original 76 foot-pound
> torque setting because yesterday to re-torque them, I set my
> torque wrench at 71 foot-pounds, which is 5 less than the
> 76 foot-pounds I torqued them to last month during the
> 5,000-mile wheel rotation.
>
> Is this greater-than-5-foot-pound loosening of some of the
> lug nuts on the front wheels something to be concerned
> about? I'd like to wait until the next 5,000-mile wheel rotation
> before re-torquing the wheels again. Is this advisable, or should
> I check and re-torque the wheels more often?

On Jul 17, 11:57 am, Built_Well > wrote:
> Last month I rotated the wheels on the '06 Camry, from front
> to back. Yesterday I re-torqued them after 350 miles of driving
> and five weeks.
>
> All the lug nuts on the two rear wheels did not turn even
> a bit; they were perfectly torqued. But 4 out of 5 lug nuts on
> the passenger-side front wheel turned a little bit, less than a
> quarter turn--probably about an eighth of a turn (1/8 turn).
>
> On the driver-side front wheel, 2 out of 5 lug nuts also turned
> about 1/8 of a turn when I re-torqued them.
>
> I know these 6 loosened lug nuts on the two front wheels
> lost more than 5 foot-pounds of their original 76 foot-pound
> torque setting because yesterday to re-torque them, I set my
> torque wrench at 71 foot-pounds, which is 5 less than the
> 76 foot-pounds I torqued them to last month during the
> 5,000-mile wheel rotation.
>
> Is this greater-than-5-foot-pound loosening of some of the
> lug nuts on the front wheels something to be concerned
> about? I'd like to wait until the next 5,000-mile wheel rotation
> before re-torquing the wheels again. Is this advisable, or should
> I check and re-torque the wheels more often?


I have noticed alloy wheels with moderate amounts of corrosion on the
mounting face do tend to loosen up a bit.


Dave

Were the wheels off the ground, or at least only lightly loaded to
prevent turning, when you torqued them? Embedded dirt too was my first
suspect of properly torqued lugs coming loose. Also, the stud threads
should NOT be lubed.

When you tighten from 60 to 76 lb/ft, the lug nut was turning, right?
(Otherwise you may be near 60 lb/ft instead of 76 lb/ft). That's why I
use 25, 50, 76 lb/ft.



On Jul 17, 11:57*am, Built_Well > wrote:
> Yes, I used a criss-cross or star pattern, and torqued
> each set of lug nuts gradually, first to 40, then to 60,
> then 76.
>
> I also re-torqued everything last month during the rotation, but
> what do you mean by "back them off, one at a time, and re-torque
> to 76 again."