ATF, ATF filter, and ATF pan gasket Change Procedure

BobJ > wrote:
>
> I think many of the Toyota models have a label on the
> trans dipstick, which says " SERVICE NOT REQUIRED UNDER
> NORMAL OPERATING CONDITIONS". This is pure BS, unless you
> want (or more like Toyota wants) the transmission to crater
> in under 50K miles. I have an 04 Matrix went past 30K
> without any attention to the trans. Thinking more of
> preventive maintenance, I bought a case of T-IV fluid and
> drained the trans. The fluid was almost brown. It didn't
> smell too bad, but I replaced most of the fluid, then
> changed the pan again every other oil change siince.
> Everything is fine mechanically so far (53K) and I plan on
> it staying that way. Todays transmissions are the biggest
> extortion racket going. It pays to know a lot more about
> your car that the unfortunate schmuck who thinks the dealer
> is his friend..
========

Points very well made, BobJ. I think I might drain and fill
the Toyota Genuine ATF Type T-IV fluid at 50 or 60,000 miles,
even though the owner's manual says it's not necessary to
change the ATF if you're not driving under Special Operating
Conditions. The Camry maintenance guide lists 60,000 miles or
6 years as the distance or time to change the ATF when driving
under Special Operating Conditions like dusty roads or towing.

I wonder how many folks have the guts to follow the manual,
and never change their ATF. I was looking at the maintenance
guide for an Oldsmobile Delta Eighty-Eight, and it says to
change its Dexron II ATF at 100,000 miles, or every 15,000
miles under severe operating conditions.

Built_Well wrote:
> BobJ > wrote:
>> I think many of the Toyota models have a label on the
>> trans dipstick, which says " SERVICE NOT REQUIRED UNDER
>> NORMAL OPERATING CONDITIONS". This is pure BS, unless you
>> want (or more like Toyota wants) the transmission to crater
>> in under 50K miles. I have an 04 Matrix went past 30K
>> without any attention to the trans. Thinking more of
>> preventive maintenance, I bought a case of T-IV fluid and
>> drained the trans. The fluid was almost brown. It didn't
>> smell too bad, but I replaced most of the fluid, then
>> changed the pan again every other oil change siince.
>> Everything is fine mechanically so far (53K) and I plan on
>> it staying that way. Todays transmissions are the biggest
>> extortion racket going. It pays to know a lot more about
>> your car that the unfortunate schmuck who thinks the dealer
>> is his friend..
> ========
>
> Points very well made, BobJ. I think I might drain and fill
> the Toyota Genuine ATF Type T-IV fluid at 50 or 60,000 miles,
> even though the owner's manual says it's not necessary to
> change the ATF if you're not driving under Special Operating
> Conditions. The Camry maintenance guide lists 60,000 miles or
> 6 years as the distance or time to change the ATF when driving
> under Special Operating Conditions like dusty roads or towing.
>
> I wonder how many folks have the guts to follow the manual,
> and never change their ATF. I was looking at the maintenance
> guide for an Oldsmobile Delta Eighty-Eight, and it says to
> change its Dexron II ATF at 100,000 miles, or every 15,000
> miles under severe operating conditions.

I wouldn't wait to change it. The more dirt being pumped
around, the more damage you are doing to the internals.
Under general use, the trans oil should not discolor much at
all. If you change the pan every other oil change, it will
remain that way, replenishing the additives, etc.
Waiting until it looks like motor oil, is not a good choice..

BobJ > wrote:
>
> I think many of the Toyota models have a label on the
> trans dipstick, which says " SERVICE NOT REQUIRED UNDER
> NORMAL OPERATING CONDITIONS". This is pure BS, unless you
> want (or more like Toyota wants) the transmission to crater
> in under 50K miles.
=========

BobJ, very interesting post. Lemme say I will give the
2006 Camry /Maintenance Guide/ credit for pointing out that
the ATF should be inspected every 30,000 miles (or 3 years)
and replaced every 60,000 miles if driving while towing.

But, I think I agree with you. I don't give much credit to
the author(s) of the Camry's /Owner's Manual/ for saying that
the ATF doesn't need to be changed if you don't drive under
the Special Operating Conditions described in the
/Maintenance Guide/. And the only Special Operating Condition
mentioned in the Maintenance Guide that requires replacing
the ATF at 60,000 miles is driving while towing. As you point
out, it seems kind of like taking too much of a chance or
risk, especially considering the cost of repairing a
transmission.

In the Camry's case, it doesn't take much time to simply drain
the ATF pan through the pan's convenient drain plug, and filling
the pan back up through the ATF filler hole under the hood.

That won't get 100 percent of the old ATF out, but
it will get about 40 percent out each time. It's
pretty simple to do, and BobJ has convinced me that it's
a very good idea.

BobJ, maybe you should help edit the Camry's
Owner's Manual :-)

Car manufacturers' notion of "life of car" is quite different from
that of many owners. Given only a portion of the fluid drains out IMO
it should be done every 15K miles and the strainer with it, if not
more often.

So what's the state of the ATF in your Camry?




On Jul 10, 10:26*pm, Built_Well > wrote:
> BobJ > wrote:
>
> > * * I think many of the Toyota models have a label on the
> > trans dipstick, which says " SERVICE NOT REQUIRED UNDER
> > NORMAL OPERATING CONDITIONS". * This is pure BS, unless you
> > want (or more like Toyota wants) the *transmission to crater
> > in under 50K miles.
>
> =========
>
> BobJ, very interesting post. *Lemme say I will give the
> 2006 Camry /Maintenance Guide/ credit for pointing out that
> the ATF should be inspected every 30,000 miles (or 3 years)
> and replaced every 60,000 miles if driving while towing.
>
> But, I think I agree with you. *I don't give much credit to
> the author(s) of the Camry's /Owner's Manual/ for saying that
> the ATF doesn't need to be changed if you don't drive under
> the Special Operating Conditions described in the
> /Maintenance Guide/. *And the only Special Operating Condition
> mentioned in the Maintenance Guide that requires replacing
> the ATF at 60,000 miles is driving while towing. *As you point
> out, it seems kind of like taking too much of a chance or
> risk, especially considering the cost of repairing a
> transmission.
>
> In the Camry's case, it doesn't take much time to simply drain
> the ATF pan through the pan's convenient drain plug, and filling
> the pan back up through the ATF filler hole under the hood.
>
> That won't get 100 percent of the old ATF out, but
> it will get about 40 percent out each time. *It's
> pretty simple to do, and BobJ has convinced me that it's
> a very good idea.
>
> BobJ, maybe you should help edit the Camry's
> Owner's Manual :-)

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:26:17 -0700 (PDT), Built_Well
> wrote:

>
>BobJ > wrote:
>>
>> I think many of the Toyota models have a label on the
>> trans dipstick, which says " SERVICE NOT REQUIRED UNDER
>> NORMAL OPERATING CONDITIONS". This is pure BS, unless you
>> want (or more like Toyota wants) the transmission to crater
>> in under 50K miles.
>=========
>
>BobJ, very interesting post. Lemme say I will give the
>2006 Camry /Maintenance Guide/ credit for pointing out that
>the ATF should be inspected every 30,000 miles (or 3 years)
>and replaced every 60,000 miles if driving while towing.
>
>But, I think I agree with you. I don't give much credit to
>the author(s) of the Camry's /Owner's Manual/ for saying that
>the ATF doesn't need to be changed if you don't drive under
>the Special Operating Conditions described in the
>/Maintenance Guide/. And the only Special Operating Condition
>mentioned in the Maintenance Guide that requires replacing
>the ATF at 60,000 miles is driving while towing. As you point
>out, it seems kind of like taking too much of a chance or
>risk, especially considering the cost of repairing a
>transmission.
>
>In the Camry's case, it doesn't take much time to simply drain
>the ATF pan through the pan's convenient drain plug, and filling
>the pan back up through the ATF filler hole under the hood.
>
>That won't get 100 percent of the old ATF out, but
>it will get about 40 percent out each time. It's
>pretty simple to do, and BobJ has convinced me that it's
>a very good idea.


I do this too. It's easy and cheap to replace that 40 percent by just
a drain and fill. Do it regularly (10 k) and you will replace most of
the fluid to give the trans a long healthy life. I live in a hot
climate.
It's even easier than an oil change so why not.

Earlier I wrote that the total fill for the 2006 Camry's AT fluid
is 9.3 quarts. That's true for the V6 Camry which uses the
U151E transmission, but the 4-cylinder 2006 Camry uses the
U250E transmission, which has a total fill of 8.5 quarts.

If just doing a simple ATF drain-and-fill, just 3.7 quarts
is required for both the U151E and the U250E, because
most of the rest of the ATF is in the torque converter, in the
AT oil cooler (the short length of pipe underneath the radiator),
and in the hoses which connect to the AT oil cooler.

The 2 hoses on my Camry leading from the transmission to the
AT oil cooler are actually labeled with the words "AT Oil."
Toyota helpin' out to simplify things :-)

I don't think I'll ever do anything more than a drain-and-fill
of the ATF, though. When I crawled under the chassis to
take a look at the ATF pan, I saw that several of the 18
bolts are recessed away in hard-to-reach awkward spots.
You'd have to be plastic man to reach those bolts or have
really flexible tools.

Has anyone ever removed their own car's ATF pan to
replace its gasket and screen-filter or clean the
magnets and clean the ATF pan itself? I guess after 20
years it might make sense...

Why do the ATF hoses come into play when you drain/refill? How about
using the drain plug?

The U250E, like many other U-series transmission, suffer from shift
problems. IMO the older A-series, while dirtier, was more reliable.
After driving highway speeds and decelerating the U250E may exhibit a
harsh 5-4 shift.

Get a new shift solenoid free before the powertrain warranty expires!!

T-SB-0033-08 April 15, 2008
Harsh 5-4 Downshift on Deceleration



On Jul 24, 5:38*pm, Built_Well > wrote:
> Earlier I wrote that the total fill for the 2006 Camry's AT fluid
> is 9.3 quarts. *That's true for the V6 Camry which uses the
> U151E transmission, but the 4-cylinder 2006 Camry uses the
> U250E transmission, which has a total fill of 8.5 quarts.
>
> If just doing a simple ATF drain-and-fill, just 3.7 quarts
> is required for both the U151E and the U250E, because
> most of the rest of the ATF is in the torque converter, in the
> AT oil cooler (the short length of pipe underneath the radiator),
> and in the hoses which connect to the AT oil cooler.
>
> The 2 hoses on my Camry leading from the transmission to the
> AT oil cooler are actually labeled with the words "AT Oil."
> Toyota helpin' out to simplify things :-)
>
> I don't think I'll ever do anything more than a drain-and-fill
> of the ATF, though. *When I crawled under the chassis to
> take a look at the ATF pan, I saw that several of the 18
> bolts are recessed away in hard-to-reach awkward spots.
> You'd have to be plastic man to reach those bolts or have
> really flexible tools.
>
> Has anyone ever removed their own car's ATF pan to
> replace its gasket and screen-filter or clean the
> magnets and clean the ATF pan itself? *I guess after 20
> years it might make sense...

John G dole wrote:
>
> Why do the ATF hoses come into play when you drain/refill? How about
> using the drain plug?
========

The ATF hoses don't come into play if you're just doing
a regular drain-and-fill, but they do come into play if you want
to drain /all/ of the ATF out, including the almost 60
percent that's in the torque converter.

A regular drain-and-fill that gets out 40 percent of
the ATF should suffice, though :-)

Thanks for mentioning the solenoid. I will consider
getting the free replacement, but I really haven't had
any down-shifting problem with the car.

Do you have a copy or link to the TSB?

"Built_Well" > wrote in message
...
>
> Earlier I wrote that the total fill for the 2006 Camry's AT fluid
> is 9.3 quarts. That's true for the V6 Camry which uses the
> U151E transmission, but the 4-cylinder 2006 Camry uses the
> U250E transmission, which has a total fill of 8.5 quarts.
>
> If just doing a simple ATF drain-and-fill, just 3.7 quarts
> is required for both the U151E and the U250E, because
> most of the rest of the ATF is in the torque converter, in the
> AT oil cooler (the short length of pipe underneath the radiator),
> and in the hoses which connect to the AT oil cooler.
>
> The 2 hoses on my Camry leading from the transmission to the
> AT oil cooler are actually labeled with the words "AT Oil."
> Toyota helpin' out to simplify things :-)
>
> I don't think I'll ever do anything more than a drain-and-fill
> of the ATF, though. When I crawled under the chassis to
> take a look at the ATF pan, I saw that several of the 18
> bolts are recessed away in hard-to-reach awkward spots.
> You'd have to be plastic man to reach those bolts or have
> really flexible tools.
>
> Has anyone ever removed their own car's ATF pan to
> replace its gasket and screen-filter or clean the
> magnets and clean the ATF pan itself? I guess after 20
> years it might make sense...

It is not necessary to replace the screen, clean the magnets, or clean the
transmission pan (it is not called an "ATF" pan) itself under normal
conditions any more than you would drop the engine oil pan.. I just did it
on our Escort because it doesn't have a transmission pan drain plug, but
your Camry has a handy dandy drain plug, which makes dropping the
transmission pan unnecessary. If the transmission pan has an FIPG, there is
a pretty good chance that you would end up with a transmission leak when
you're done.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Built_Well" > wrote in message
...
>
> John G dole wrote:
>>
>> Why do the ATF hoses come into play when you drain/refill? How about
>> using the drain plug?
> ========
>
> The ATF hoses don't come into play if you're just doing
> a regular drain-and-fill, but they do come into play if you want
> to drain /all/ of the ATF out, including the almost 60
> percent that's in the torque converter.
>
> A regular drain-and-fill that gets out 40 percent of
> the ATF should suffice, though :-)
>
> Thanks for mentioning the solenoid. I will consider
> getting the free replacement, but I really haven't had
> any down-shifting problem with the car.
>
> Do you have a copy or link to the TSB?

A dealer will not install a new part for free just because a TSB is issued.
The vehicle has to exhibit or meet the conditions described in the TSB
before any warranty work will be performed.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)