Sebring---- SUDDEN ACCELERATION

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> I firmly believe that virtually 100% of the cases of "unintended
> acceleration" in cars made prior to about 2001 were because of driver
> error. There's simply NO way that an engine with a mechanical throttle
> linkage can accelerate unless the return spring breaks, and it doesn't "go
> back to normal" immediately thereafter- it stays broken.
>
> Howver, in recent years more cars are being built with "throttle by wire"
> in which a computer-controlled servo moves the throttle blades, not a
> direct mechanical linkage to the accelerator pedal. I know that the
> systems and software go through tremendous testing, but I no longer feel
> confident in saying that it "cannot happen" anymore.
>

Which begs the question...why make a very simple and reliable system more
complicated (with all the associated problems that more complicated systems
have)?

"James C. Reeves" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I firmly believe that virtually 100% of the cases of "unintended
> > acceleration" in cars made prior to about 2001 were because of driver
> > error. There's simply NO way that an engine with a mechanical throttle
> > linkage can accelerate unless the return spring breaks, and it doesn't
"go
> > back to normal" immediately thereafter- it stays broken.
> >
> > Howver, in recent years more cars are being built with "throttle by
wire"
> > in which a computer-controlled servo moves the throttle blades, not a
> > direct mechanical linkage to the accelerator pedal. I know that the
> > systems and software go through tremendous testing, but I no longer feel
> > confident in saying that it "cannot happen" anymore.
> >
>
> Which begs the question...why make a very simple and reliable system more
> complicated (with all the associated problems that more complicated
systems
> have)?
>
> ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY, no cables, brackets, save on money and supposed to be
a faster response for acceleration

"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
>
> "James C. Reeves" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Steve" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I firmly believe that virtually 100% of the cases of "unintended
>> > acceleration" in cars made prior to about 2001 were because of driver
>> > error. There's simply NO way that an engine with a mechanical throttle
>> > linkage can accelerate unless the return spring breaks, and it doesn't
> "go
>> > back to normal" immediately thereafter- it stays broken.
>> >
>> > Howver, in recent years more cars are being built with "throttle by
> wire"
>> > in which a computer-controlled servo moves the throttle blades, not a
>> > direct mechanical linkage to the accelerator pedal. I know that the
>> > systems and software go through tremendous testing, but I no longer
>> > feel
>> > confident in saying that it "cannot happen" anymore.
>> >
>>
>> Which begs the question...why make a very simple and reliable system more
>> complicated (with all the associated problems that more complicated
> systems
>> have)?
>>
>> ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY, no cables, brackets, save on money and supposed to
>> be
> a faster response for acceleration
>
>

Seems like a "over-engineering" job to me.

I have read the majority of the responses you received and tend to agree
that the simplest explanation is application of the wrong pedal. That said,
I had an experience that I do not believe anyone else has related and this
could also have been a cause for the accident so I'll describe what happened
to me here in a completely different vehicle.

I was accelerating down an on ramp to an expressway and merging with the
flow in a 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT. I pushed the pedal to the floor and
quickly found myself at 65MPH and accelerating even though I had taken my
foot off the pedal. IN another couple seconds I was over 90MPH and still
climbing! I thought about my options: shut down the ignition, apply the
brakes, reduce gears, etc. but all had possible undesirable results. I
decided to reach down and check the accelerator and found that my carpet
floor mat had managed to get up under the accelerator so was holding it
down. I pulled it free and the vehicle came back under control.

It was a harrowing experience and the split instant when I realized that the
vehicle had a mind of its own is what I'm certain that your wife
experienced. As I indicated above, the most likely cause was driver error,
but a misplaced floormat is another possibility so thought I would share my
story here.

Bob

"James Goforth" > wrote in message
...
> Just curious, but if it was suspected to be merely a case of pedal
> mis-application, why was this situation peculiar only to Audi's and not
> all models?
> I would also be curious as to how many instances of the above
> mentioned condition were automatics vs. manuals.
>

maxpower wrote:

> "James C. Reeves" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Steve" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>I firmly believe that virtually 100% of the cases of "unintended
>>>acceleration" in cars made prior to about 2001 were because of driver
>>>error. There's simply NO way that an engine with a mechanical throttle
>>>linkage can accelerate unless the return spring breaks, and it doesn't
>
> "go
>
>>>back to normal" immediately thereafter- it stays broken.
>>>
>>>Howver, in recent years more cars are being built with "throttle by
>
> wire"
>
>>>in which a computer-controlled servo moves the throttle blades, not a
>>>direct mechanical linkage to the accelerator pedal. I know that the
>>>systems and software go through tremendous testing, but I no longer feel
>>>confident in saying that it "cannot happen" anymore.
>>>
>>
>>Which begs the question...why make a very simple and reliable system more
>>complicated (with all the associated problems that more complicated
>
> systems
>
>>have)?
>>
>>ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY, no cables, brackets, save on money


Yep- the throttle body location can be anywhere and you still use the
same accelerator pedal and the same throttle servo. No custom cable lengths.

>and supposed to be a faster response for acceleration

And the sick and twisted irony is that "throttle by wire" engines are
NOTORIOUS for having a sluggish throttle response compared to direct
cables. The software always optimizes the throttle opening rate to
minimize fuel consumption and emissions, rather than letting you bang
the butterflies open instantly the way you can when your right foot is
firmly cabled to the throttle blades. That is the NUMBER ONE gripe I
hear from Ram truck owners who have compared the new 5.7 Hemi to the old
5.9 360. Yes, the Hemi has more horsepower and torque, but the old 5.9
slams you back harder and quicker when you first punch it because it
responds instantly. I've also observed the same thing when comparing an
older cable-throttle 3.5L v6 to the newest throttle-by-wire 3.5L v6.

Bob Shuman wrote:

> I have read the majority of the responses you received and tend to agree
> that the simplest explanation is application of the wrong pedal. That said,
> I had an experience that I do not believe anyone else has related and this
> could also have been a cause for the accident so I'll describe what happened
> to me here in a completely different vehicle.
>
> I was accelerating down an on ramp to an expressway and merging with the
> flow in a 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT. I pushed the pedal to the floor and
> quickly found myself at 65MPH and accelerating even though I had taken my
> foot off the pedal. IN another couple seconds I was over 90MPH and still
> climbing! I thought about my options: shut down the ignition, apply the
> brakes, reduce gears, etc. but all had possible undesirable results. I
> decided to reach down and check the accelerator and found that my carpet
> floor mat had managed to get up under the accelerator so was holding it
> down.

I remember one of my high school teachers who had been a police officer
grabbing a couple of us and chewing us out in the parking lot one day.
He'd seen a friend of mine stuff his stack of books under the driver's
seat, and he said "what do you think would happen if a book slid forward
and got wedged under your brake pedal?" and then told a story of how a
flashlight had come loose and gotten under the brake pedal of a squad
car one time resulting in a nasty wreck. Ever since then (and that was
25 years ago), I've been REALLY careful about the kind of mats I use,
and careful to never stow *anything* under the driver's seat.

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Steve wrote:

> I remember one of my high school teachers who had been a police officer
> grabbing a couple of us and chewing us out in the parking lot one day.
> He'd seen a friend of mine stuff his stack of books under the driver's
> seat, and he said "what do you think would happen if a book slid forward
> and got wedged under your brake pedal?" and then told a story of how a
> flashlight had come loose and gotten under the brake pedal of a squad
> car one time resulting in a nasty wreck. Ever since then (and that was
> 25 years ago), I've been REALLY careful about the kind of mats I use,
> and careful to never stow *anything* under the driver's seat.

Same goes for the very badly named "package shelf" behind the rear seat.
I'm amazed at the bulky, heavy stuff people crap up the shelf with. Stop
short, and everything on the shelf flies forward like a missile.

In article >,
says...
> Just curious, but if it was suspected to be merely a case of pedal
>mis-application, why was this situation peculiar only to Audi's and not
>all models?

When the government did their investigation they found that most of the
people who had this problem were new to Audi ownership and have prviously
owned an American made car. They also found that the space between the
brake and the gas was smaller on Audi's than on your typical American car.
-------------
Alex

In article >,
says...
>
>
>I have read the majority of the responses you received and tend to agree
>that the simplest explanation is application of the wrong pedal. That said,
>I had an experience that I do not believe anyone else has related and this
>could also have been a cause for the accident so I'll describe what happened
>to me here in a completely different vehicle.
>
>I was accelerating down an on ramp to an expressway and merging with the
>flow in a 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT. I pushed the pedal to the floor and
>quickly found myself at 65MPH and accelerating even though I had taken my
>foot off the pedal. IN another couple seconds I was over 90MPH and still
>climbing! I thought about my options: shut down the ignition, apply the
>brakes, reduce gears, etc. but all had possible undesirable results. I
>decided to reach down and check the accelerator and found that my carpet
>floor mat had managed to get up under the accelerator so was holding it
>down. I pulled it free and the vehicle came back under control.
>
>It was a harrowing experience and the split instant when I realized that the
>vehicle had a mind of its own is what I'm certain that your wife
>experienced. As I indicated above, the most likely cause was driver error,
>but a misplaced floormat is another possibility so thought I would share my
>story here.

One of the first things you should always do is put your toe under the
gas pedal and try to lift it back up. If that doesn't work, hit the
brakes and wait for the car to stop.
-------------
Alex

Not sure how relevant that is. I thought a case or two was/were reported in
the UK.

DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"Alex Rodriguez" > wrote in message
...
[...]
> When the government did their investigation they found that most of the
> people who had this problem were new to Audi ownership and have prviously
> owned an American made car. They also found that the space between the
> brake and the gas was smaller on Audi's than on your typical American car.
> -------------
> Alex
>
>
>