it caused more wrecks but somehow it is safer?

On Feb 5, 5:25*pm, Arif Khokar > wrote:
> Yes there is.
>
> The fact that there are a lot of violations within a fraction of a
> second after the light changes from yellow to red. *There is a report
> from the VDOT concerning a particular intersection in Fairfax VA. *When
> yellow light time was increased by 1 second, red light running
> violations were reduced by 90% or so.

ok... I'll look at the report if you can provide the link...

On 2/5/2011 6:44 PM, Larry G wrote:
> On Feb 5, 5:25 pm, Arif > wrote:

>> The fact that there are a lot of violations within a fraction of a
>> second after the light changes from yellow to red. There is a report
>> from the VDOT concerning a particular intersection in Fairfax VA. When
>> yellow light time was increased by 1 second, red light running
>> violations were reduced by 90% or so.
>
> ok... I'll look at the report if you can provide the link...

I can't find a direct link to it now, but there's a summary of the
results he

http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/fairfax

Here's a list of studies relating to RLCs

http://thenewspaper.com/news/04/430.asp

On Feb 5, 7:29*pm, Arif Khokar > wrote:
> On 2/5/2011 6:44 PM, Larry G wrote:
>
> > On Feb 5, 5:25 pm, Arif > *wrote:
> >> The fact that there are a lot of violations within a fraction of a
> >> second after the light changes from yellow to red. *There is a report
> >> from the VDOT concerning a particular intersection in Fairfax VA. *When
> >> yellow light time was increased by 1 second, red light running
> >> violations were reduced by 90% or so.
>
> > ok... I'll look at the report if you can provide the link...
>
> I can't find a direct link to it now, but there's a summary of the
> results he
>
> http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/fairfax
>
> Here's a list of studies relating to RLCs
>
> http://thenewspaper.com/news/04/430.asp

Have you seen this report: http://www.virginiadot.org/info/reso...er10-Final.pdf

Red Light Running Camera
(Photo Enforcement)
Engineering Safety Analysis Guidelines

isn't this pretty much what you guys are saying needs to be done?

On Feb 3, 12:28*am, Lil Abner > wrote:
> I;m noticing whenever the politicians or Police Chiefs put the political
> statement the cameras are a success. Studies and facts say otherwise
>
> http://www.murfreesboropost.com/red-...ate-248-000-cm...

Red light runners are killers and maimers. Make them pay.

On 2011-02-05, Larry G > wrote:

> so the question is - is "education" - "socialism" ?

government run education in the USA is an experiment in social
engineering by the ruling class. If you don't believe me that's ok, but
that is where it came from. The prussian system, the high ideals of
shaping society that gave us forced sterlization, the drug war, and the
prohibition of alcohol.

Anyway, George Carlin says it way better than I can:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jQT7_rVxAE

On Feb 5, 11:00*pm, Brent > wrote:
> On 2011-02-05, Larry G > wrote:
>
> > so the question is - is "education" - "socialism" ? * *
>
> government run education in the USA is an experiment in social
> engineering by the ruling class. If you don't believe me that's ok, but
> that is where it came from. The prussian system, the high ideals of
> shaping society that gave us forced sterlization, the drug war, and the
> prohibition of alcohol.
>
> Anyway, George Carlin says it way better than I can:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jQT7_rVxAE

schools are social engineering.. agreed

Did we have a middle class prior to the advent of public schools? How
come we were the first country with public schools and now virtually
all countries in the world have them and continue to have them?

In article >,
Larry G > wrote:
>
>Did we have a middle class prior to the advent of public schools?
Yes.

--
The problem with socialism is there's always
someone with less ability and more need.

On 2011-02-06, Larry G > wrote:
> On Feb 5, 11:00*pm, Brent > wrote:
>> On 2011-02-05, Larry G > wrote:
>>
>> > so the question is - is "education" - "socialism" ? * *
>>
>> government run education in the USA is an experiment in social
>> engineering by the ruling class. If you don't believe me that's ok, but
>> that is where it came from. The prussian system, the high ideals of
>> shaping society that gave us forced sterlization, the drug war, and the
>> prohibition of alcohol.
>>
>> Anyway, George Carlin says it way better than I can:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jQT7_rVxAE
>
> schools are social engineering.. agreed

> Did we have a middle class prior to the advent of public schools? How
> come we were the first country with public schools and now virtually
> all countries in the world have them and continue to have them?

The modern compulsory public schools were invented long after the US had
a middle class. If you study who brought about their creation copying
the prussian system it becomes apparent they are really part of a war of
the ruling class on their primary threat, the middle class. The first
thing to note is the vast difference in method of schooling between the
elite private schools and the public schools. The methods these private
schools use cost less than those of the public schools.

John Talyor Gatto applied them to poor kids in NYC who were considered
unteachable. They worked. They worked too well for the system to accept.

If you have the time read gatto's writings or listen to him on youtube.
Also note the goals of the prussian edcational system. It isn't to make
independent creative thinkers. It's to make corporate and military
drones who follow instructions.

On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 16:54:24 GMT, (Matthew
Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road:

>In article >,
>Larry G > wrote:
>>
>>Did we have a middle class prior to the advent of public schools?
>Yes.

but the merchant class was far smaller than the modern middle class and
the peasants were the vast majority.

On 2011-02-06 10:52, Free Lunch wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 16:54:24 GMT, (Matthew
> Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road:
>
>> In article >,
>> Larry G > wrote:
>>>
>>> Did we have a middle class prior to the advent of public schools?
>> Yes.
>
> but the merchant class was far smaller than the modern middle class and
> the peasants were the vast majority.

You're off by about 500 years. Public schools didn't appear until about
the 18th century, and weren't compulsory until after 1870.