Can you tell me how Torq Sticks Work?

Today I bought a =10= piece Torque Extension Set
It is identical to the one he
http://tinyurl.com/6qt5h
except that it has 10 torq sticks
65
75
80
90
100
110
120
130
140
150 ft lbs

Now, I have some questions, which of course, the vendor was -unable-
to answer for me.

First, anybody here ever use these things?
How do they work ( principle )
How do they work ( actual operation when connected to impact wrench )?

This is sold under the name of Pittsburgh Item 42478
This is the actual *kit* right he
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42478

There isn't *much* in the way of instructions, as to when to know when
the correct torque has been reached.

Thanks for any input.

Lg

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 00:22:28 -0800, "Billy Bad Assr©"
> wrote:

>LOL >> you got ripped off!!

I don't know that -yet-. They claim to be +/- 4% accurate.

>We had one of those things floating around -- worthless POS >> 2 parts, an
>extension and a socket! I looked at it -- I saw a plastic/steel socket!

There is no plastic on anything here. Don't know what you had, but
these are designed to plug directly into impact sockets. Metal to
metal, no plastic involved.

> Inner
>part of socket is supposed to break loose at a given torque >> problem is
>sockets plastic housing wears out rather quickly

see above

>> IMHO not worth the $$$!! <<
>Warning - may cause a major headaches!!!

>you are aware that the sticks are for your wheel lug nuts!

Yes.
I've been searching the Internet for the "theory of operation" of
these torq sticks, and haven't been able to find anything yet,
although I have come across a lot of other valuable information
relating to torque extensions and how to calculate what you should set
your torque for when using extensions, with mathematical formulas (
simple algebra ).

I am still baffled at the theory of operation of these things.
You can't explain it to me because you said you had plastic break-away
parts in yours. These things involve no plastic whatsoever, and are
popular with many DEALERSHIPS around here. The techs tell me they use
them extensively, and have no complaints.

But they didn't have time to take me through the *theory*.

Thanks anyhow.

Lg

LOL >> you got ripped off!!



We had one of those things floating around -- worthless POS >> 2 parts, an
extension and a socket! I looked at it -- I saw a plastic/steel socket! Inner
part of socket is supposed to break loose at a given torque >> problem is
sockets plastic housing wears out rather quickly >> IMHO not worth the $$$!! <<
Warning - may cause a major headaches!!!



you are aware that the sticks are for your wheel lug nuts!



--
BBA
°?°
BBA's RC Site - http://www.billybadassrc.com
When Privacy Matters -- http://www.epic.org
"Lawrence Glickman" > wrote in message
...
>
> Today I bought a =10= piece Torque Extension Set
> It is identical to the one he
> http://tinyurl.com/6qt5h
> except that it has 10 torq sticks
> 65
> 75
> 80
> 90
> 100
> 110
> 120
> 130
> 140
> 150 ft lbs
>
> Now, I have some questions, which of course, the vendor was -unable-
> to answer for me.
>
> First, anybody here ever use these things?
> How do they work ( principle )
> How do they work ( actual operation when connected to impact wrench )?
>
> This is sold under the name of Pittsburgh Item 42478
> This is the actual *kit* right he
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42478
>
> There isn't *much* in the way of instructions, as to when to know when
> the correct torque has been reached.
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
> Lg
>

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 00:22:28 -0800, "Billy Bad Assr©"
> wrote:

>LOL >> you got ripped off!!

I don't know that -yet-. They claim to be +/- 4% accurate.

>We had one of those things floating around -- worthless POS >> 2 parts, an
>extension and a socket! I looked at it -- I saw a plastic/steel socket!

There is no plastic on anything here. Don't know what you had, but
these are designed to plug directly into impact sockets. Metal to
metal, no plastic involved.

> Inner
>part of socket is supposed to break loose at a given torque >> problem is
>sockets plastic housing wears out rather quickly

see above

>> IMHO not worth the $$$!! <<
>Warning - may cause a major headaches!!!

>you are aware that the sticks are for your wheel lug nuts!

Yes.
I've been searching the Internet for the "theory of operation" of
these torq sticks, and haven't been able to find anything yet,
although I have come across a lot of other valuable information
relating to torque extensions and how to calculate what you should set
your torque for when using extensions, with mathematical formulas (
simple algebra ).

I am still baffled at the theory of operation of these things.
You can't explain it to me because you said you had plastic break-away
parts in yours. These things involve no plastic whatsoever, and are
popular with many DEALERSHIPS around here. The techs tell me they use
them extensively, and have no complaints.

But they didn't have time to take me through the *theory*.

Thanks anyhow.

Lg
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Nevermind. I just figured it out by myself.
Interested? give me a phone call someday when I'm not busy.

Best Regards,

Lg

"Lawrence Glickman"

> I've been searching the Internet for the "theory of operation" of
> these torq sticks, and haven't been able to find anything yet,
> although I have come across a lot of other valuable information
>
> I am still baffled at the theory of operation of these things.
>
> Nevermind. I just figured it out by myself.

Ah, so you found a site that explained how they ONLY work with impact
wrenches, and basically transmit the torque up to their calibrated values,
then absorb any further torque by twisting and springing back between
impacts. Kinda-sorta the same idea as a torque-to-yield bolt, but they're
springy, so they don't permanently deform.

Lawrence Glickman > writes:

> Today I bought a =10= piece Torque Extension Set
> It is identical to the one he
> http://tinyurl.com/6qt5h
> except that it has 10 torq sticks
> 65
> 75
> 80
> 90
> 100
> 110
> 120
> 130
> 140
> 150 ft lbs
>
> Now, I have some questions, which of course, the vendor was -unable-
> to answer for me.
>
> First, anybody here ever use these things?

My tire shop use them on my cars.

> How do they work ( principle )

The shanks acts as torsion springs, absorbing some of the hammering
action from the impact wrench. Notice on the web page that it says
they are accurate to within ±3% when used with a 375-400 ft/lb impact
wrench. They can not be used as a torque limiter with manual breaker
bars.

You'll also see that the higher the torque, the thicker the shank,
which will flex less and thus more of the wrench's energy is applied
to the nut/bolt.

> How do they work ( actual operation when connected to impact wrench )?
>
> This is sold under the name of Pittsburgh Item 42478
> This is the actual *kit* right he
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42478
>
> There isn't *much* in the way of instructions, as to when to know when
> the correct torque has been reached.

The nut/bolt stops moving when the correct torque has been reached. At
that time all the wrench's energy is absorbed by the shank.

>
> Thanks for any input.
>
> Lg
>

Thomas

They work very poorly and are one of the biggest causes of failed brake
rotors going.

Some techs are just plain lazy so they use these torque sticks on their
impact guns instead of finishing putting a wheel on with a proper torque
wrench like they are supposed to.

The torque sticks bend and get springy in the twist when they reach
their supposed torque level so the impact driver just bounces.

The problem is even new ones have a 5% or so tolerance and once used,
that changes for the worst. You can only flex metal so much before it
gives some. Even 'real' torque wrenches need calibration now and then.

So if they have gone to say 10% tolerance 'for easy numbers' on a wheel
lug nut that is supposed to be at 100 ft lb, you could have one lug at
90 and one at 110 and still think it's working ok meanwhile you just
warped the rotor.

Even at 5% new specs, that means one can be at 105 ft lb and the rest
all at 95 ft lbs or any combination which still can/will warp a rotor,
especially the crappy Chrysler ones....

For all intents and purposes, I think they are garbage and I will always
use a proper torque wrench on tires (and other parts) like they taught
us back in the 70's when mag wheels came out. Impact wrenches were
warping them too....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>
> Today I bought a =10= piece Torque Extension Set
> It is identical to the one he
> http://tinyurl.com/6qt5h
> except that it has 10 torq sticks
> 65
> 75
> 80
> 90
> 100
> 110
> 120
> 130
> 140
> 150 ft lbs
>
> Now, I have some questions, which of course, the vendor was -unable-
> to answer for me.
>
> First, anybody here ever use these things?
> How do they work ( principle )
> How do they work ( actual operation when connected to impact wrench )?
>
> This is sold under the name of Pittsburgh Item 42478
> This is the actual *kit* right he
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42478
>
> There isn't *much* in the way of instructions, as to when to know when
> the correct torque has been reached.
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
> Lg

I'll agree on that! Had new tires put on my '93 Crown Vic w/alum wheels,
tech use 'torque' tube, he's been at this tire dealership for ever. I
questioned the use of this thing, he said no problem.
Shortly afterwards, noticed shuttering/pulsing when braking, obvious rotor
problem.
Got out my notebook and started taking off lug nuts with my 'real' torque
wrench. They ranged anywhere from 95ft/lbs to something way over
150ft/lbs.The last one I had to support one end of tire tool on a jack
stand, then I had to stand on the tire tool to break it loose!! Never again,
I always demand hand torqueing, if they don't have one, I'll go somewhere
else.
JR in NC

Mike Romain wrote:

> They work very poorly and are one of the biggest causes of failed brake
> rotors going.
>
> Some techs are just plain lazy so they use these torque sticks on their
> impact guns instead of finishing putting a wheel on with a proper torque
> wrench like they are supposed to.
>
> The torque sticks bend and get springy in the twist when they reach
> their supposed torque level so the impact driver just bounces.
>
> The problem is even new ones have a 5% or so tolerance and once used,
> that changes for the worst. You can only flex metal so much before it
> gives some. Even 'real' torque wrenches need calibration now and then.
>
> So if they have gone to say 10% tolerance 'for easy numbers' on a wheel
> lug nut that is supposed to be at 100 ft lb, you could have one lug at
> 90 and one at 110 and still think it's working ok meanwhile you just
> warped the rotor.
>
> Even at 5% new specs, that means one can be at 105 ft lb and the rest
> all at 95 ft lbs or any combination which still can/will warp a rotor,
> especially the crappy Chrysler ones....
>
> For all intents and purposes, I think they are garbage and I will always
> use a proper torque wrench on tires (and other parts) like they taught
> us back in the 70's when mag wheels came out. Impact wrenches were
> warping them too....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Lawrence Glickman wrote:
> >
> > Today I bought a =10= piece Torque Extension Set
> > It is identical to the one he
> > http://tinyurl.com/6qt5h
> > except that it has 10 torq sticks
> > 65
> > 75
> > 80
> > 90
> > 100
> > 110
> > 120
> > 130
> > 140
> > 150 ft lbs
> >
> > Now, I have some questions, which of course, the vendor was -unable-
> > to answer for me.
> >
> > First, anybody here ever use these things?
> > How do they work ( principle )
> > How do they work ( actual operation when connected to impact wrench )?
> >
> > This is sold under the name of Pittsburgh Item 42478
> > This is the actual *kit* right he
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42478
> >
> > There isn't *much* in the way of instructions, as to when to know when
> > the correct torque has been reached.
> >
> > Thanks for any input.
> >
> > Lg

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 13:03:11 GMT, Thomas Tornblom
-to-reply> wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman > writes:
>
>> Today I bought a =10= piece Torque Extension Set
>> It is identical to the one he
>> http://tinyurl.com/6qt5h
>> except that it has 10 torq sticks
>> 65
>> 75
>> 80
>> 90
>> 100
>> 110
>> 120
>> 130
>> 140
>> 150 ft lbs
>>
>> Now, I have some questions, which of course, the vendor was -unable-
>> to answer for me.
>>
>> First, anybody here ever use these things?
>
>My tire shop use them on my cars.
>
>> How do they work ( principle )
>
>The shanks acts as torsion springs, absorbing some of the hammering
>action from the impact wrench. Notice on the web page that it says
>they are accurate to within ±3% when used with a 375-400 ft/lb impact
>wrench. They can not be used as a torque limiter with manual breaker
>bars.
>
>You'll also see that the higher the torque, the thicker the shank,
>which will flex less and thus more of the wrench's energy is applied
>to the nut/bolt.
>
>> How do they work ( actual operation when connected to impact wrench )?
>>
>> This is sold under the name of Pittsburgh Item 42478
>> This is the actual *kit* right he
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42478
>>
>> There isn't *much* in the way of instructions, as to when to know when
>> the correct torque has been reached.
>
>The nut/bolt stops moving when the correct torque has been reached. At
>that time all the wrench's energy is absorbed by the shank.
>
>>
>> Thanks for any input.
>>
>> Lg
>>
>
>Thomas

Thank you, Thomas

Lg

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 11:39:14 GMT, "MasterBlaster"
> wrote:

>
>"Lawrence Glickman"
>
>> I've been searching the Internet for the "theory of operation" of
>> these torq sticks, and haven't been able to find anything yet,
>> although I have come across a lot of other valuable information
>>
>> I am still baffled at the theory of operation of these things.
>>
>> Nevermind. I just figured it out by myself.
>
>Ah, so you found a site that explained how they ONLY work with impact
>wrenches, and basically transmit the torque up to their calibrated values,
>then absorb any further torque by twisting and springing back between
>impacts. Kinda-sorta the same idea as a torque-to-yield bolt, but they're
>springy, so they don't permanently deform.

No, what came to mind was a watch spring actually. No matter how hard
you hit it, because of it's physical size, it will transfer no more
than a limited amount of energy to the watch due to it's physical
torsion capabilities; and then I had the idea these are calibrated
torsion bars, linear springs, and behave the same way in that respect
as a *wound* coil spring.

You can drop a 600 ton locomotive on a watch spring ( very carefully )
and the dimensions of the spring will still limit the amount of energy
transferred to the watch.

The thicker the spring, the more energy transferred.

Forgive my ignorance, but _no_ instructions came with this *kit.*
Usually some kind of cheap 2 penny instructions are included, but in
this case, it was a 1 penny instruction card.

Thanks Masterblaster,

Lg