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What brand of tools favored by pros?



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 15th 04, 04:50 PM
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This is G o o g l e's cache of
http://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/whotools.html as retrieved on 28
Sep 2004 03:27:15 GMT.
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page without highlighting.
This cached page may reference images which are no longer available.
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These search terms have been highlighted: snap on tools made



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who Makes What Tools

Last update: Feb. 10, 2003



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following excerpts were posted on one of the mailing list I
subscribe to. I though the information was worth sharing.

I've tried to contact the original authors to get their permission,
but did not get any replies to my emails. Since this information is
available via one of several archives, I feel that I can present it
here. However, the authors names have been removed from the
discussions. (If they would like credit - please contact me.)

(ED. I was informed on July 5, 2000 that Stanley has a complaint filed
against them via the Federal Trade Commission as of June 2, 1999.)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone wrote [in part]:

.... but I never could figure out who makes the [Craftsman] hand tools.
To which someone else replied:

I'm not the final word on tools by any means, but since I work in the
business, I've learned a little bit about it. Okay, here's more than
you ever wanted to know.

Lowes now (as of earlier this year) is selling a line of Mechanics
Tools called Kobalt which is made by Snap-On. They are good tools.

(ED: I've received 3 follow up emails; updating the information about
who is making Kobalt tools:
The first is from Bob Payne of Cornwell Tool Distributor - He
indicates that Kobalt is not made by Snap-On.
The second is from Heidi Schuck of Husky Tools with more information
on Kobalt tools not being made by Snap-On.)
The third from Dave Johnson about the new vendor for the Kobalt line
of tools.)

Home Depot's Husky brand is made by Stanley Mechanics Tools, a
division of the Stanley Works. Husky are also good tools and have a
good lifetime warranty (they'll even replace your broken Craftsman
with an equivalent Husky).

Until 1994 or so, Stanley also made Sears Craftsman tools. Sears
Craftsman is now made by Danaher Tools. They beat out Stanley on the
contract over price. Danaher also manufactures MatCo Tools, the third
largest player in the Mobile Automotive industry (behind MAC and
Snap-On). Odds are, if you own any Craftsman tools that are older than
about five years ago, they were made by Stanley in plants in Dallas,
Texas, Witchita Falls, Texas, and Sabina, Ohio.

Stanley also owns MAC Tools and manufactures MAC tools in the same
plants. Now here's the kicker: MAC Tools, Proto Tools (a very
expensive industrial brand), Husky Tools, and, (prior to five or so
years ago) Craftsman Tools are all made from the same forgings in the
same plants. Proto is unique because it goes through addtional testing
and certification because it is used by NASA, the military, and
industrial customers (including General Motors).

There are three MAJOR players in the USA mechanics tool business:
Stanley, Danaher, and Snap-On. Stanley and Danaher (almost identical
in sales revenue at about $28 billion each) are the biggest followed
by Snap-On. Each of these three manufacture and sell tools under a
variety of brands (there are many other brands that Stanley makes that
I haven't even named). The quality between these three manufacturers
is roughly the same. I know its a bit of a let-down to hear that, but
its a simple fact.

There are a hand full of other minor players (Vermont American, etc)
and an endless list of Taiwanese import tool companies (some of which
Stanley own as well as Danaher to serve the lower end consumer import
brands at WalMart, etc). How do I know all of this? I work for Stanley
Mechanics Tools, specifically with the Proto Industrial brand. I
personally do not think that MAC, MatCo, or Snap-On branded tools are
worth the extra markup since they use the same forgings and
manufacturing processes that make Husky and Kobalt and pre-1994
Craftsman. Where you need to pay attention are things like ratchets
and torque wrenches. There are different specifications of ratchets
and you do pay for the difference. Some mechanics require a finer,
more precise ratcheting mechanism than guys like me who just bang
around in the garage on the weekends.

By the way, Metwrench is basically considered a "gimick" infomercial
tool brand that is not considered as a serious competitor to Danaher,
Snap-On, or Stanley. Then again, IBM once didn't see Microsoft as a
serious force in the personal computer business. Hmmmm....

(Two more brands that I don't know much about is Black & Decker and
DeWalt. About Sept. 2002 I received an email stating that B&D owns
DeWalt. Though I haven't confirmed this yet.)

----------------

Then there was this discourse on FACOM brand tools:

> FACOM has been around forever. French company, says "American" in the name
> though I forget the whole acronym.


FACOM is Franco-Americaine de Construction d'Outillage Mecanique.
French for "French-American Mechanical Tool Manufacturing". Got points
in my french class for that.

> It's now one of the largest tool conglomerates in Europe.
>
> SK, I think, is an American company that recently has had a large part of
> its stock purchased by FACOM.


FACOM owns S-K outright. You'll notice (if you look through the
catalogs from preceeding years) that the tools are becoming more and
more alike. The S-K "pro" screwdrivers are now FACOM ergotwist
screwdrivers. The "tuff1" ratchets are S-K pro ratchet handles avec
FACOM innards. FACOM's ratcheting flare wrench now has S-K stamped on
the side of it. I don't like it because we could get FACOM tools from
S-K dealers for over 10 years, but now they're getting more and more
reluctant to give us FACOM stuff, they'd rather sell S-K stuff. Which
is why you get S-K catalogs instead of FACOM. If you specifically
request (demand) a FACOM catalog, you get their _american_ catalog,
which is abbreviated, along with a note to contact Griot's Garage.
I've asked a French friend to get me a French market FACOM catalog, as
they have all the good stuff that hasn't yet been absorbed into the
S-K line. Ultimate Garage is a FACOM dealer as well as Griots, and
I've been told (by richard?) they've got a catalog, dunno if it's
FACOM's, but I'll order something and find out.

I was also wondering what the deal was with the S-K foundry?
Presumably they still make some stuff stateside? No? I know there are
others not mentioned, Cornwell has a foundry in Ohio, I think?

I'd kinda doubt that Williams uses the _exact_ same dies for Koalt and
Snap-On. I compared the Kobalt combo wrench to one of my Snap-Ons, and
they aren't the same. The Kobalt handle is pretty much rectangular in
cross-section, and really does hurt your hand when you pull hard. The
Snap-On is more rounded. As well, the Kobalt is visibly looser on the
fastener. Maybe these are Snap-On rejects? Can't explain the handle
differences, though. The breaker bars seem to share the same grip,
though, it just seems the kobalt doesn't have those nifty machined
indentations at the base.

I know Stanley owns Mac and Blackhawk (didn't know about Husky), but
the Blackhawk stuff doesn't seem similar to the Mac stuff. These look
awfully different to be from the same dies, shape wise. So the price
difference is different steel in the better tools? Surely they can't
be charging Mac prices for better plated Blackhawk stuff?

> FACOM also owns (large parts of) USAG (Italian?) and Beissbarth...




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Addendum

I received the following info from Dan Peronto a Tool Designer for
Snap-on Tools at the Kenosha Mfg Plant:

From: "Peronto, Daniel J."
To: "John T. Blair"
Subject: Hand tools
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:44:50 -0500


I just wanted to add my 2 cents. Well a nickle really, considering
that I work for Snap-on and we over charge for everything

I was reading on your site about 'who makes what tools'
http://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/whotools.html. One part explians
that the various manufactures use 'the exact same forgings' for all
the various brands they sell. This is NOT true for Snap-on tools. Our
retail brand Kobalt sold through Lowe's stores, shares very little if
any traits with our traditional Snap-on line. They are made in the
same plants, but most of the manufacturing tooling is different. They
are made by the same UNION skilled machinists useing the same tried
and true processes. The designs for these tools are completly
different. They use different material and are heat treated
differently.

I hope this clears things up slightly
Dan Peronto
Tool Designer
Snap-on Tools
Kenosha Mfg Plant




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Return to the Index of Tech. articles

To email the webmaster with comments or questions.
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  #12  
Old November 15th 04, 04:50 PM
G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This is G o o g l e's cache of
http://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/whotools.html as retrieved on 28
Sep 2004 03:27:15 GMT.
G o o g l e's cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we
crawled the web.
The page may have changed since that time. Click here for the current
page without highlighting.
This cached page may reference images which are no longer available.
Click here for the cached text only.
To link to or bookmark this page, use the following url:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache...en%20target=nw


Google is not affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible
for its content.
These search terms have been highlighted: snap on tools made



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who Makes What Tools

Last update: Feb. 10, 2003



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following excerpts were posted on one of the mailing list I
subscribe to. I though the information was worth sharing.

I've tried to contact the original authors to get their permission,
but did not get any replies to my emails. Since this information is
available via one of several archives, I feel that I can present it
here. However, the authors names have been removed from the
discussions. (If they would like credit - please contact me.)

(ED. I was informed on July 5, 2000 that Stanley has a complaint filed
against them via the Federal Trade Commission as of June 2, 1999.)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone wrote [in part]:

.... but I never could figure out who makes the [Craftsman] hand tools.
To which someone else replied:

I'm not the final word on tools by any means, but since I work in the
business, I've learned a little bit about it. Okay, here's more than
you ever wanted to know.

Lowes now (as of earlier this year) is selling a line of Mechanics
Tools called Kobalt which is made by Snap-On. They are good tools.

(ED: I've received 3 follow up emails; updating the information about
who is making Kobalt tools:
The first is from Bob Payne of Cornwell Tool Distributor - He
indicates that Kobalt is not made by Snap-On.
The second is from Heidi Schuck of Husky Tools with more information
on Kobalt tools not being made by Snap-On.)
The third from Dave Johnson about the new vendor for the Kobalt line
of tools.)

Home Depot's Husky brand is made by Stanley Mechanics Tools, a
division of the Stanley Works. Husky are also good tools and have a
good lifetime warranty (they'll even replace your broken Craftsman
with an equivalent Husky).

Until 1994 or so, Stanley also made Sears Craftsman tools. Sears
Craftsman is now made by Danaher Tools. They beat out Stanley on the
contract over price. Danaher also manufactures MatCo Tools, the third
largest player in the Mobile Automotive industry (behind MAC and
Snap-On). Odds are, if you own any Craftsman tools that are older than
about five years ago, they were made by Stanley in plants in Dallas,
Texas, Witchita Falls, Texas, and Sabina, Ohio.

Stanley also owns MAC Tools and manufactures MAC tools in the same
plants. Now here's the kicker: MAC Tools, Proto Tools (a very
expensive industrial brand), Husky Tools, and, (prior to five or so
years ago) Craftsman Tools are all made from the same forgings in the
same plants. Proto is unique because it goes through addtional testing
and certification because it is used by NASA, the military, and
industrial customers (including General Motors).

There are three MAJOR players in the USA mechanics tool business:
Stanley, Danaher, and Snap-On. Stanley and Danaher (almost identical
in sales revenue at about $28 billion each) are the biggest followed
by Snap-On. Each of these three manufacture and sell tools under a
variety of brands (there are many other brands that Stanley makes that
I haven't even named). The quality between these three manufacturers
is roughly the same. I know its a bit of a let-down to hear that, but
its a simple fact.

There are a hand full of other minor players (Vermont American, etc)
and an endless list of Taiwanese import tool companies (some of which
Stanley own as well as Danaher to serve the lower end consumer import
brands at WalMart, etc). How do I know all of this? I work for Stanley
Mechanics Tools, specifically with the Proto Industrial brand. I
personally do not think that MAC, MatCo, or Snap-On branded tools are
worth the extra markup since they use the same forgings and
manufacturing processes that make Husky and Kobalt and pre-1994
Craftsman. Where you need to pay attention are things like ratchets
and torque wrenches. There are different specifications of ratchets
and you do pay for the difference. Some mechanics require a finer,
more precise ratcheting mechanism than guys like me who just bang
around in the garage on the weekends.

By the way, Metwrench is basically considered a "gimick" infomercial
tool brand that is not considered as a serious competitor to Danaher,
Snap-On, or Stanley. Then again, IBM once didn't see Microsoft as a
serious force in the personal computer business. Hmmmm....

(Two more brands that I don't know much about is Black & Decker and
DeWalt. About Sept. 2002 I received an email stating that B&D owns
DeWalt. Though I haven't confirmed this yet.)

----------------

Then there was this discourse on FACOM brand tools:

> FACOM has been around forever. French company, says "American" in the name
> though I forget the whole acronym.


FACOM is Franco-Americaine de Construction d'Outillage Mecanique.
French for "French-American Mechanical Tool Manufacturing". Got points
in my french class for that.

> It's now one of the largest tool conglomerates in Europe.
>
> SK, I think, is an American company that recently has had a large part of
> its stock purchased by FACOM.


FACOM owns S-K outright. You'll notice (if you look through the
catalogs from preceeding years) that the tools are becoming more and
more alike. The S-K "pro" screwdrivers are now FACOM ergotwist
screwdrivers. The "tuff1" ratchets are S-K pro ratchet handles avec
FACOM innards. FACOM's ratcheting flare wrench now has S-K stamped on
the side of it. I don't like it because we could get FACOM tools from
S-K dealers for over 10 years, but now they're getting more and more
reluctant to give us FACOM stuff, they'd rather sell S-K stuff. Which
is why you get S-K catalogs instead of FACOM. If you specifically
request (demand) a FACOM catalog, you get their _american_ catalog,
which is abbreviated, along with a note to contact Griot's Garage.
I've asked a French friend to get me a French market FACOM catalog, as
they have all the good stuff that hasn't yet been absorbed into the
S-K line. Ultimate Garage is a FACOM dealer as well as Griots, and
I've been told (by richard?) they've got a catalog, dunno if it's
FACOM's, but I'll order something and find out.

I was also wondering what the deal was with the S-K foundry?
Presumably they still make some stuff stateside? No? I know there are
others not mentioned, Cornwell has a foundry in Ohio, I think?

I'd kinda doubt that Williams uses the _exact_ same dies for Koalt and
Snap-On. I compared the Kobalt combo wrench to one of my Snap-Ons, and
they aren't the same. The Kobalt handle is pretty much rectangular in
cross-section, and really does hurt your hand when you pull hard. The
Snap-On is more rounded. As well, the Kobalt is visibly looser on the
fastener. Maybe these are Snap-On rejects? Can't explain the handle
differences, though. The breaker bars seem to share the same grip,
though, it just seems the kobalt doesn't have those nifty machined
indentations at the base.

I know Stanley owns Mac and Blackhawk (didn't know about Husky), but
the Blackhawk stuff doesn't seem similar to the Mac stuff. These look
awfully different to be from the same dies, shape wise. So the price
difference is different steel in the better tools? Surely they can't
be charging Mac prices for better plated Blackhawk stuff?

> FACOM also owns (large parts of) USAG (Italian?) and Beissbarth...




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Addendum

I received the following info from Dan Peronto a Tool Designer for
Snap-on Tools at the Kenosha Mfg Plant:

From: "Peronto, Daniel J."
To: "John T. Blair"
Subject: Hand tools
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:44:50 -0500


I just wanted to add my 2 cents. Well a nickle really, considering
that I work for Snap-on and we over charge for everything

I was reading on your site about 'who makes what tools'
http://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/whotools.html. One part explians
that the various manufactures use 'the exact same forgings' for all
the various brands they sell. This is NOT true for Snap-on tools. Our
retail brand Kobalt sold through Lowe's stores, shares very little if
any traits with our traditional Snap-on line. They are made in the
same plants, but most of the manufacturing tooling is different. They
are made by the same UNION skilled machinists useing the same tried
and true processes. The designs for these tools are completly
different. They use different material and are heat treated
differently.

I hope this clears things up slightly
Dan Peronto
Tool Designer
Snap-on Tools
Kenosha Mfg Plant




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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To email the webmaster with comments or questions.
 




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