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Bring back the Brat or modernize the Wrangler



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 13th 05, 07:46 PM
Lon
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Bonehenge proclaimed:

> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:18:04 -0800, Matt Mead
> > wrote:
>
>
>>How about the Jeep Liberty with the new diesel engine option?

>
>
> The Liberty has independent front suspension, and is not intended for
> actual off-roading beyond dirt roads. It is, however, quite popular
> with the soccer mom who is too politically correct for a Suburban, in
> my area.


Feh. You can drive a Volvo on dirt roads, troll.

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  #12  
Old February 13th 05, 08:01 PM
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The Baja definitely flopped. Subaru only sold it at first with leather
at a 26000+ cost. They tried to appeal to young active people but
proced it too high. By the time they figured this out it was too late.
I actually kind of liked it and had a deposit on one but bought the
OBW. For a bit more I got five seats and lockable cargo storage and a
locking gas cap which the Baja failed to include!!! I LOVE the Outback
wagon. My only complaint is the stock tires bridgestone potenzas have
lost most of their grip at 39,000 miles even though the treadwear shows
they should last 50k. I will have to get new ones in the spring or
summer or sooner if snow keeps up but we've been lucky in NJ so far.
No mechanical issues in 13 months/ 39k miles. I am however saddened a
bit since I just found out Jeep is selling the unlimited whick is a
modern Scrambler.
It wasnt out in 1/04 when I had to buy a car due to my Trooper getting
totalled. Jeep finally gave the Wrangler a 4spped trans but mileage
still sux. There is just no reason for that.

  #13  
Old February 13th 05, 08:03 PM
dundee
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isn't the hummer independent front.?
"Lon" > wrote in message
...
> Bonehenge proclaimed:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:18:04 -0800, Matt Mead
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>How about the Jeep Liberty with the new diesel engine option?

>>
>>
>> The Liberty has independent front suspension, and is not intended for
>> actual off-roading beyond dirt roads. It is, however, quite popular
>> with the soccer mom who is too politically correct for a Suburban, in
>> my area.

>
> Feh. You can drive a Volvo on dirt roads, troll.
>



  #14  
Old February 13th 05, 09:24 PM
Peter D. Hipson
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Yes, but let's not go there (I have both a Hummer, and a TJ (and a
Dodge 2500...)

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:03:07 +1300, "dundee" >
wrote:

>isn't the hummer independent front.?


  #15  
Old February 14th 05, 05:44 AM
Eric
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I kinda like it.. but haven't driven one. I wonder if the turbo made any
difference in sales...

Eric
"SoK66" > wrote in message
...
> Yeah, and it's a flop.
>
> "Eric" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Uhh.. didn't Subaru just come out with a new 'Brat'-type vehicle??
>> http://www.subaru.com/servlet/showro...TrimName=TURBO
>>
>> Eric
>> "Carl Taylor" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> This is a request for Subaru, Jeep, Toyota, etc. to produce something
>>> like the old Subaru Brat, which was essentially a 4WD car with low
>>> range gearing. With today's engine technology it could get gas mileage
>>> in the low to mid 30s on the highway, while having true off-road
>>> capability.
>>>
>>> Today's options are limited to "cute utes" or "soft utes" which lack
>>> low range and are designated AWD rather than 4WD (Honda CR-V, Toyota
>>> RAV-4, Ford Escape, and so on). To get offroad-capable 4WD, you're
>>> forced to buy a truck or SUV that can only get MPG in the teens to low
>>> 20s. There are plenty of conservationists who want to go off-road and
>>> they shouldn't have to buy a bloated rig.
>>>
>>> The 2005 Toyota Tacomas and Nissan Frontiers show the trend toward size
>>> over efficiency. Engineers managed to maintain mediocre fuel mileage
>>> while making them as big as possible (using vvt, etc.) , but they could
>>> have made them smaller, more agile and more efficient. A truck that
>>> went from compact to midsize and became 5" wider with a 10" longer
>>> wheelbase is not "better" off-road just because of a fancy new
>>> drivetrain.
>>>
>>> Jeeps, including the Liberty, are still gas guzzlers and the ancient
>>> Wrangler styling could be made a lot more aerodynamic. I see a lot of
>>> potential for redesigning the Wrangler into something that could manage
>>> mid to upper 20s MPG and wouldn't even have to be a hybrid.
>>>
>>> A powerplant with "only" 150 HP and similar torque could get the job
>>> done in the right chassis. We need to stop building bigger engines just
>>> to move bigger trucks or satisfy high school egos. People did fine with
>>> less before they were hyped into "needing" 200+ HP to keep up with the
>>> pack. For nitwits, tailgating someone on a 7% grade at 80 MPH may be
>>> perceived as vital, but when you're off-road, excessive power is rarely
>>> needed. Low-end torque (relative to body weight) is more important, and
>>> lighter vehicles need less of it. Smaller engines reduce weight also.
>>>
>>> My perfect vehicle would have AWD aspects (auto torque split based on
>>> wheel spin) but would also be a tough off-roader with at least 9" of
>>> usable ground clearance; not just at the high points. The current
>>> Subaru Outback is rated at over 8" of clearance but the frame sits too
>>> low to make that very useful. I also see a practical use for ghetto
>>> car-hopping technology. They could use hydraulics to lift the frame on
>>> dirt roads and drop it back down for aerodynamics on pavement.
>>>
>>> C.T.
>>>

>>
>>

>
>



  #16  
Old February 14th 05, 05:02 PM
Matt Mead
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:12:40 GMT, Bonehenge
> wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:18:04 -0800, Matt Mead
> wrote:
>
>>How about the Jeep Liberty with the new diesel engine option?

>
>The Liberty has independent front suspension, and is not intended for
>actual off-roading beyond dirt roads. It is, however, quite popular
>with the soccer mom who is too politically correct for a Suburban, in
>my area.



Uh, yeah, but since the the discussion was started about looking for
something comparable to a Subie Brat (good fuel economy but with a
2-spd case), I'd say the diesel Liberty fits the bill nicely. I'd say
the Liberty has more off-road credentials then the Brat ever did.

Matt
99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4
  #17  
Old February 14th 05, 06:36 PM
Hallraker
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"Matt Mead" > wrote in message
...

> Uh, yeah, but since the the discussion was started about looking for
> something comparable to a Subie Brat (good fuel economy but with a
> 2-spd case), I'd say the diesel Liberty fits the bill nicely. I'd say
> the Liberty has more off-road credentials then the Brat ever did.
>


That's probably true. At least off the lot, anyway. There are/were a lot
of aftermarket parts and accessories designed to increase the off-road
capabilities of the Brat, which were pretty good for a tiny truck that was
actually a car anyway. And do not forget that the Brat had jumpseats. <g>

-Matt


  #19  
Old February 15th 05, 01:08 AM
Matt Mead
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:36:43 GMT, "Hallraker"
> wrote:

>That's probably true. At least off the lot, anyway. There are/were a lot
>of aftermarket parts and accessories designed to increase the off-road
>capabilities of the Brat, which were pretty good for a tiny truck that was
>actually a car anyway. And do not forget that the Brat had jumpseats. <g>
>
>-Matt



I've actually looked at a few websites that had info on off-roading
Subarus. Kinda interesting and they would make a unique off-roader.
Gearing has to be a big issue though as the tires get bigger.....

The Brat was definately cool in its day!

Matt
99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4
  #20  
Old February 15th 05, 04:07 AM
Hallraker
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"Matt Mead" > wrote in message
news
> On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:36:43 GMT, "Hallraker"
> > wrote:
>
> >That's probably true. At least off the lot, anyway. There are/were a

lot
> >of aftermarket parts and accessories designed to increase the off-road
> >capabilities of the Brat, which were pretty good for a tiny truck that

was
> >actually a car anyway. And do not forget that the Brat had jumpseats.

<g>
> >
> >-Matt

>
>
> I've actually looked at a few websites that had info on off-roading
> Subarus. Kinda interesting and they would make a unique off-roader.
> Gearing has to be a big issue though as the tires get bigger.....
>
> The Brat was definately cool in its day!
>

They are surprisingly capable, and the older 4x4 models were arguably better
off-road than the newer AWD models. Mine is AWD, and in 5 years I've been
stuck twice: got high centered on an ice shelf with all four wheels about 2"
off the ground, and another time I couldn't make it up a hill. Of course,
it's worth noting that the hill was about 45 degrees, there was 15" of snow,
and a 1/2 inch ice sheet underneath that. Oh yeah, and I had summer tires.
<g>

When I got high centered, that night was so awful that my friend's snowplow
truck got stuck after he pulled me out. Since the tow strap was still
attached, I gave it a mighty pull with the Subaru and freed a GMC 3500
snowplow truck from the snowbank.


 




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