FORZA Motorsport -- What's the Scoop?

Anyone been following Forza Motorsport? I havent found a whole lot of
good information about it yet, but my first questions are

1. will it be a sim or arcade or hybrid?
2. how many real race tracks will there be?

> Anyone been following Forza Motorsport? I havent found a whole lot of
> good information about it yet, but my first questions are
>
> 1. will it be a sim or arcade or hybrid?
> 2. how many real race tracks will there be?

1. It's definitely a sim judging by the demo I've played, however, there's
not really much bump modelling so the tracks are pretty flat - possibly even
flatter than papy games. It looks like a lot of work has gone into it but I
can't see it setting any benchmarks in terms of physics modelling i.e. some
PC sims have a more realistic behaving tyre model etc. Reminds me a bit of
F355 Challenge as far as console sims go but the cars' weight transfer,
suspension etc are more advanced.

2. Quite a few. The demo features a nicely modelled Laguna Seca (albeit
without many bumps) I'm not sure if the full track list has been publicised
yet.

1.) Based on the demo, I'd call it a hybrid which more heavily emphasizes
simulation physics. The demo is obviously an incomplete and unpolished
version of what the final produce will be. What bothers me the most at this
point is that it will not offer a true cockpit view. It's just like PGR 2
or GT3 in this department. You see nothing of the instrument panel,
steering wheel, windshield, or even the hood. That takes a lot of the
immersion out of a racing simulation in my opinion.

2.) Here's a link to the Forza website, which recently went live. The
short answer is 31, if you count the dragstrip. But the link will tell you
a lot of what you want to know about the cars and tracks in detail,
http://www.xbox.com/assets/en-us/fla...te/default.htm.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Anyone been following Forza Motorsport? I havent found a whole lot of
> good information about it yet, but my first questions are
>
> 1. will it be a sim or arcade or hybrid?
> 2. how many real race tracks will there be?
>

John Cauthen wrote:
> What bothers me the most at this point is that it will not offer a
> true cockpit view. [...] That takes a lot of the immersion out of a
> racing simulation in my opinion.

Not to mention you'll be playing it with a controller. Microsoft needs
to (a) update the XDK to support force feedback controllers, (b)
release
a USB adapter, (c) support my Driving Force Pro in Forza. Short of
that, I have no interest.

"Eric Tetz" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> John Cauthen wrote:
>> What bothers me the most at this point is that it will not offer a
>> true cockpit view. [...] That takes a lot of the immersion out of a
>> racing simulation in my opinion.
>
> Not to mention you'll be playing it with a controller. Microsoft needs
> to (a) update the XDK to support force feedback controllers, (b)
> release
> a USB adapter, (c) support my Driving Force Pro in Forza. Short of
> that, I have no interest.
>

Excellent point Eric! A driving simulation that aims to be as realistic as
this one needs to support a true force feedback steering wheel. The wheels
I've tried with the Xbox thus far have been horrible, and that's before you
even get to the issue of no force feedback support. I have to admit getting
enjoyment out of TOCA 2 using the S Controller, but I would get a lot more
out of it with a decent steering wheel and force feedback

The Forza demo already tells me that I'm not going to be able get what I
want out of it without a steering wheel - it demands more control precision
than I can deliver with my gamepad skills. I hope someone steps up to the
plate to meet this need. If you read the technical discussion of the XBox's
interface, it's not going to be easy.

John Cauthen wrote:
> If you read the
> technical discussion of the XBox's interface, it's not going to be
> easy.

The controller interface is USB with a different connector. What is it that
makes it difficult?

--
Jone Tytlandsvik
http://tytlandsvik.no

Jone Tytlandsvik wrote:
| John Cauthen wrote:
|| If you read the
|| technical discussion of the XBox's interface, it's not going to be
|| easy.
|
| The controller interface is USB with a different connector. What is
| it that makes it difficult?

Support in games. Built-in deadzone in games to make it behave nicely with
gamepads.

It's not a matter of "can-do" but "be willing to do", and not on the behalf
of game/sim developers necessarily.

According to Logitech (http://cars.ign.com/articles/526/526806p2.html)
the Xbox simply does not support force-feedback. They are ready and
willing to make a FF wheel for the Xbox, but something about the
hardware/OS/SDK (I can't imagine what) prevents it. It's a real
travesty, because there have been so many great racing games on the
Xbox. PGR2 and RSC2 both would have been a blast with a good FF wheel.
Neither are simulators, but both have very fun driving models and
fantastic rumble feedback.

Speaking of... why hasn't somebody made a force feedback wheel with a
'rumblers' built-in? It's amazing how much feedback you get from
vibration alone -- combined with force feedback it would be awesome.

Eric Tetz wrote:
| According to Logitech
| (http://cars.ign.com/articles/526/526806p2.html) the Xbox simply
| does not support force-feedback.

Thanks for that link. Quite interesting (and a bit disappointing, really).

| They are ready and willing to make
|| a FF wheel for the Xbox, but something about the hardware/OS/SDK (I
| can't imagine what) prevents it. It's a real travesty, because there
| have been so many great racing games on the Xbox. PGR2 and RSC2 both
| would have been a blast with a good FF wheel. Neither are
| simulators, but both have very fun driving models and fantastic
| rumble feedback.

Yeah, a little forces can add a lot; even on arcadey stuff like Burnout 3,
for example, which is a blast on the PS2 with an FF wheel (and I can't play
it with a gampad, as arcadey as it is, the feeling of loss of traction is
just not there with a pad but it is with a wheel).

| Speaking of... why hasn't somebody made a force feedback wheel with a
| 'rumblers' built-in? It's amazing how much feedback you get from
| vibration alone -- combined with force feedback it would be awesome.

I guess the problem is that "rumble" carries no information about direction
at all. How would you know whether it's supposed to push left or right? It
just rumbles.

> Anyone been following Forza Motorsport? I havent found a whole lot of
> good information about it yet, but my first questions are
>
> 1. will it be a sim or arcade or hybrid?
> 2. how many real race tracks will there be?

1. It's definitely a sim judging by the demo I've played, however, there's
not really much bump modelling so the tracks are pretty flat - possibly even
flatter than papy games. It looks like a lot of work has gone into it but I
can't see it setting any benchmarks in terms of physics modelling i.e. some
PC sims have a more realistic behaving tyre model etc. Reminds me a bit of
F355 Challenge as far as console sims go but the cars' weight transfer,
suspension etc are more advanced.

2. Quite a few. The demo features a nicely modelled Laguna Seca (albeit
without many bumps) I'm not sure if the full track list has been publicised
yet.