Bad engine mounts, but who cares?

Along the lines of this thread.... I forget the make and model, but last
semester one of my students brought in a car that needed a motor mount
replaced ( we never got around to it). I don't recall the exact price, but
it was several hundred dollars. The really unusual thing about this motor
mount is that it was computer controlled (there was even a DTC set that
indicated a motor mount problem). It had a solenoid on it that controlled
some sort of hydraulic valve. I had meant to do some research on it at the
time, but I was too busy and later when I thought about it again the car was
gone. I wish I knew the year make and model so I could find out more about
how it worked and why it was computer controlled.
--
Kevin Mouton
Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green


"Don" > wrote in message
...
> On 29 Jul 2006 08:33:49 -0700, wrote:
>
>>
>>Just got a '96 toyota Camry
>
> V6 or 4 cyl? If I knew that I could advise you as to the legitimacy
> of $700 and which mounts are probably needed as we service these car
> on a near daily basis.
>
> This applies to ALL posters who have questions -- PLEASE help us help
> you by providing FULL INFORMATION as to what the vehicle is.
>
> Don
> www.donsautomotive.com
>
>> from my father in law, 150K miles.
>>Great shape otherwise, but it shakes like ten epileptics when idling
>>in drive. Mechanic recommends replacing motor mounts, about $700
>>to replace two of the three.
>>
>>My father in law recommends just ignoring the shaking, or putting it
>>in N at stoplights. How long can I get away with this? Will the
>>engine
>>really get into trouble soon if I ignore the bad mounts, or can I go
>>on indefinitely like this?
>

According to what I'm reading, some V6 hondas use active motor
mounts..

"Running a six-cylinder engine on only three cylinders represented a
challenge to Honda engineers. VCM required several advanced
technologies to mask the vibration inherent in three cylinder engines
with their more widely-spaced power pulses. To deal with this, the
"drive-by-wire" electronic throttle computer assures that power neither
increases or decreases during the switchover. Also, an Active Noise
Control system cancels out excessive engine noise using a microphone to
detect the noise, and then generating a signal 180 degrees out of phase
to cancel out the noise. These canceling sound waves are emitted from
the front and rear speakers during three-cylinder operation, idling,
and at-start running. The ANC system is not needed when running on all
six cylinders. Finally, two active control engine mounts, one in front
of the engine and another behind, are controlled by the engine
computer, which uses solenoids to damp fluid movement in the mounts.
During three-cylinder operation, the computer monitors changes in
crankshaft rotation rpms and sends this information to the mounts,
which then compress or extend an actuator to dampen the engine
vibration."

http://www.greencar.com/index.cfm?content=features46

* wrote:
> lolo > wrote in article
> .com>...
>
>>well, if all the mounts break, your engine could end up on the ground
>>instead of in the car.
>
>
>
> Naw !
>
> The friction of the fan blades as they grind against the radiator SHOULD
> stop the engine before it moves all the way through the radiator........
>
> And, when the driveshaft drops out of the back of the transmission, THAT
> should bring the car to a halt.
>
> Besides, you've also got things like wiring harnesses and throttle cables
> that will s-t-r-e-t-c-h out as they rein in the forward progress pf the
> engine......
>

well, it's funny, but the original poster was a Toyota Camry or
Corolla... neither of which has a mechanical fan, or a driveshaft.

That said, just change the engine mounts.

Ray

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> According to what I'm reading, some V6 hondas use active motor
> mounts..
>
> "Running a six-cylinder engine on only three cylinders represented a
> challenge to Honda engineers. VCM required several advanced
> technologies to mask the vibration inherent in three cylinder engines
> with their more widely-spaced power pulses. To deal with this, the
> "drive-by-wire" electronic throttle computer assures that power neither
> increases or decreases during the switchover. Also, an Active Noise
> Control system cancels out excessive engine noise using a microphone to
> detect the noise, and then generating a signal 180 degrees out of phase
> to cancel out the noise. These canceling sound waves are emitted from
> the front and rear speakers during three-cylinder operation, idling,
> and at-start running. The ANC system is not needed when running on all
> six cylinders. Finally, two active control engine mounts, one in front
> of the engine and another behind, are controlled by the engine
> computer, which uses solenoids to damp fluid movement in the mounts.
> During three-cylinder operation, the computer monitors changes in
> crankshaft rotation rpms and sends this information to the mounts,
> which then compress or extend an actuator to dampen the engine
> vibration."
>
> http://www.greencar.com/index.cfm?content=features46
>

Thanks. That is a great article and is pretty much what I was looking for. I
figured it would probably have to do with controlling engine vibrations, but
I wasn't aware of the reasons and the technology behind it. There is just
too much stuff out there to keep abreast of it all.
--
Kevin Mouton
Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green

On 29 Jul 2006 08:33:49 -0700, wrote:

>
>Just got a '96 toyota Camry from my father in law, 150K miles.
>Great shape otherwise, but it shakes like ten epileptics when idling
>in drive. Mechanic recommends replacing motor mounts, about $700
>to replace two of the three.
>
>My father in law recommends just ignoring the shaking, or putting it
>in N at stoplights. How long can I get away with this? Will the
>engine
>really get into trouble soon if I ignore the bad mounts, or can I go
>on indefinitely like this?

My shop has replaced motor mounts on Camry over and over again. I was
fixing to log into the shop computer and pull out some of the jobs we
have done and give you part numbers and prices of the mounts that
normally fail because I think $700 is too much. However, I receive no
compensation for this except the satisfaction of helping some with a
car problem. If it means so little to you that you can't be bothered
to tell us what engine is in the car then there is no satisfaction in
it for me. I would be glad to research it and give you a report but I
see no reason to do it TWICE!

WHAT ENGINE DOES THE CAR HAVE? THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A FOUR
CYLINDER AND A V6!! CAMRY'S CAME WITH BOTH OPTIONS! THEY USE
DIFFERENT MOUNTS!!

Don
www.donsautomotive.com

* wrote:
> lolo > wrote in article
> .com>...
> > well, if all the mounts break, your engine could end up on the ground
> > instead of in the car.
>
>
> Naw !
>
> The friction of the fan blades as they grind against the radiator SHOULD
> stop the engine before it moves all the way through the radiator........
>
> And, when the driveshaft drops out of the back of the transmission, THAT
> should bring the car to a halt.
>
As usual, Mr. * is putting out information that ranges from
questionable to downright wrong. Both scenarios you describe would
happen if the car were a conventional RWD. The Camry however, is FWD
and as such has no fan driven off the engine. Ditto for the driveshaft
falling out. The Camry has halfshafts and they'll stay in no matter how
much back and forth oscillation happens. Happy wrenching. Let's see if
he calls me a name again.............
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > My father in law recommends just ignoring the shaking, or putting it
> > > in N at stoplights. How long can I get away with this? Will the
> > > engine
> > > really get into trouble soon if I ignore the bad mounts, or can I go
> > > on indefinitely like this?
> >
> >
>
> Just remember, your kids will be carrying HIS genes........be gentle with
> them !

"Kevin" > wrote in
news:jC4zg.67260$9c6.19575@dukeread11:

> Along the lines of this thread.... I forget the make and model, but
> last semester one of my students brought in a car that needed a motor
> mount replaced ( we never got around to it). I don't recall the exact
> price, but it was several hundred dollars. The really unusual thing
> about this motor mount is that it was computer controlled (there was
> even a DTC set that indicated a motor mount problem). It had a
> solenoid on it that controlled some sort of hydraulic valve. I had
> meant to do some research on it at the time, but I was too busy and
> later when I thought about it again the car was gone. I wish I knew
> the year make and model so I could find out more about how it worked
> and why it was computer controlled.



Gotta be a Honda Accord by that description!




--
TeGGeR®

Lhead > wrote in article
.com>...
>
> As usual, Mr. * is putting out information that ranges from
> questionable to downright wrong. Both scenarios you describe would
> happen if the car were a conventional RWD. The Camry however, is FWD
> and as such has no fan driven off the engine. Ditto for the driveshaft
> falling out. The Camry has halfshafts and they'll stay in no matter how
> much back and forth oscillation happens. Happy wrenching. Let's see if
> he calls me a name again.............
> >


Yeah, I had an older RWD Toyota in mind when I answered the original
post.......That is what I last worked on .... An early-80s Toyota
oval-track car.

I don't work on FWD junk......

I made a mistake.......SO WHAT ?

Somebody else has already pointed that fact out - which makes you the
SECOND person to do so.

In motorsports competition, SECOND place is the FIRST LOSER...........

I'll put my 40-+ year automotive and motorsports resume and references up
against yours - ANY DAY OF THE WEEK !

However, as long as we have perfect people such as you here on the board, I
can feel comfortable remaining human with all the imperfections that go
along with the human condition.

I cannot remember exactly WHAT I called you, but I'm sure you are
confirming my original assessment, and living up to that name with your
post.

* wrote:
> Lhead > wrote in article
> .com>...
> >
> > As usual, Mr. * is putting out information that ranges from
> > questionable to downright wrong. Both scenarios you describe would
> > happen if the car were a conventional RWD. The Camry however, is FWD
> > and as such has no fan driven off the engine. Ditto for the driveshaft
> > falling out. The Camry has halfshafts and they'll stay in no matter how
> > much back and forth oscillation happens. Happy wrenching. Let's see if
> > he calls me a name again.............
> > >
>
>
> Yeah, I had an older RWD Toyota in mind when I answered the original
> post.......That is what I last worked on .... An early-80s Toyota
> oval-track car.
>
> I don't work on FWD junk......
>
> I made a mistake.......SO WHAT ?
>
> Somebody else has already pointed that fact out - which makes you the
> SECOND person to do so.
>
> In motorsports competition, SECOND place is the FIRST LOSER...........
>
> I'll put my 40-+ year automotive and motorsports resume and references up
> against yours - ANY DAY OF THE WEEK !
>
> However, as long as we have perfect people such as you here on the board, I
> can feel comfortable remaining human with all the imperfections that go
> along with the human condition.
>
> I cannot remember exactly WHAT I called you, but I'm sure you are
> confirming my original assessment, and living up to that name with your
> post.

One of the most common human imperfections is oversensitivity.
Especially when you're proven wrong. I've made many mistakes in my
life. Many working on cars too.

Don't worry about it. I'm sure you're an excellent
mechanic/technician/driver/person. Circle any that make you feel good.

FWD 'junk' BTW accounts for a high percentage of vehicles on the road
today. I realize that FWD has some inherent issues, but if I didn't
work on it, my compensation would be a lot lighter.

Lhead > wrote in article
. com>...
>
>
> FWD 'junk' BTW accounts for a high percentage of vehicles on the road
> today. I realize that FWD has some inherent issues, but if I didn't
> work on it, my compensation would be a lot lighter.
>
>


Which is why I opened my own specialty shop.

I don't have to work on ANYTHING I choose not to - especially FWD
econoboxes.

I don't work on anything post-1990......

I work only on specialty street and racing stuff - including purpose-built,
and stock chassis-based oval-track chassis.

My compensation is "comfortable" as are the hours I choose to work.