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Why no rear lights with DRLs?



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 23rd 05, 01:46 PM
Frank
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I leave the lights on all the time on my car. They go off when I kill
the ignition and open the door; they go back on when I start the car.
I feel it increases my conspicuity, and it hurts nothing. I'm happy.
I do about 30,000 miles a year in that car.

My wife's car, which I drive rarely, does not handle the lights like
that, so I've been known to drive in the rain without lights. I
usually remember, but not every single time. Steve will say that my
brain is separated from reality at the time, and that might be true,
but habit is a powerful force.

Yet, some people run around with this brain-reality separation a large
percentage of the time. I also agree with HLS -- many people just
don't give a damn. Would switching the lights on with the wipers make
people stupid? I don't think they would any more than automatic
tranmissions, anti-lock brakes, safety glass, air bags, seat belts, or
any of the other built-in safety or convenience devices already in use.
What they would do is ensure that the lights go on with the wipers
whether the A-hole behind the wheel wants them on or not.

Ads
  #22  
Old April 23rd 05, 02:20 PM
Dan
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I also leave my lights on all the time. Following shutting off the
engine, the lights turn off automatically when I open the door (2003
Mitsu). Even if I left them in the high beam position, when the car
re-starts they turn on in low beam, probably the case with most newer
cars. If the automatics are re-illuminating in high beam, it's bad
design. Automatic dimming is also a possibility. Would it be great if
the human moron quotient weren't so high, and people just took such
things seriously? Of course, but such is not the case.

The idiots who tick me off even more than the high-beam-in-your-face
pinheads are the ones who drive at what they consider "dusk" and other
low-light conditions with their parking lights on. PARKING lights.
PARKING. Get it???

Dan

HLS wrote:
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Frank wrote:
>>
>>>A simple switch that would turn the lights on with the wipers would
>>>help. It wouldn't be perfect, but at least most people in those
>>>vehicles wouldn't keep driving around in heavy rainstorms without
>>>lights.
>>>

>>
>>No, a simple connection between the driver's brain and reality is what
>>would help.
>>
>>Turning on headlamps with wipers would cause the same stupidity I see
>>already with ambient-light based automatic headlamps: the idiot driver
>>doesn't pay ANY attention to his headlamps, so when they come on at dusk
>>they often are on high-beam (last used the night before) and the idiot
>>keeps driving around blinding everyone while not even aware that his
>>lights are on.

>
>
> AMEN!!
>
>

  #23  
Old April 23rd 05, 02:30 PM
frank-in-toronto
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On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:20:08 -0400, Dan
> wrote:

>I also leave my lights on all the time. Following shutting off the
>engine, the lights turn off automatically when I open the door (2003
>Mitsu). Even if I left them in the high beam position, when the car
>re-starts they turn on in low beam, probably the case with most newer
>cars. If the automatics are re-illuminating in high beam, it's bad
>design. Automatic dimming is also a possibility. Would it be great if
>the human moron quotient weren't so high, and people just took such
>things seriously? Of course, but such is not the case.
>
>The idiots who tick me off even more than the high-beam-in-your-face
>pinheads are the ones who drive at what they consider "dusk" and other
>low-light conditions with their parking lights on. PARKING lights.
>PARKING. Get it???

in france, in the city, that's what they do. actually, i found it
better. no bright lights in your face. as with bicycles, there
is a difference betwen "seeing" and "being seen". here
in North America we have dumbed down this point
so far that we now have DRL.
....thehick
  #24  
Old April 23rd 05, 03:09 PM
HLS
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"HLS" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
> n.umich.edu...
> > On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, HLS wrote:
> >
> > > DRL's are, IMHO, better than nothing at all, even if the tail lights

do
> > > not activate, but if would be better if the systems were fully
> > > automatic.

> >
> > No, it would be better if the systems were designed to optimize the DRL
> > function and encourage proper, rather than improper, driver operation of
> > vehicle lighting systems.
> >
> > DS

>
> And what, in your opinion, would the ideal system consist of?


Maybe you missed this, Daniel... I respect your opinions and knowledge on
lighting. What should the ideal system be, considering the driver as part
of the equation?





  #25  
Old April 24th 05, 04:23 PM
Steve W.
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Actually Dodge had an automatic headlight system on the Caravans that I
really liked. It turned on ALL the lights when you started the engine,
just like you turned on the switch. No need to touch the switch unless
you needed lights on with ignition off. You could also switch the
headlights off by twisting the switch back momentarily.

--
Steve Williams

"James C. Reeves" > wrote in message
...
>
> "HLS" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I more or less agree, Daniel.
> >
> > I dont know if you are speaking to Canadian law, or whether those

points
> > apply in the USA as well.
> >
> > DRL's are, IMHO, better than nothing at all,

>
> According to insurance loss data over several years, they appear to

have no
> benefit.
>
> > even if the tail lights do not
> > activate,
> > but if would be better if the systems were fully automatic.

>
> And how would one make them *fully* automatic? In daytime snow/fog
> conditions when *all* lights are required in most states, there has

not been
> a "auto" system made yet that works reliably. Even those that use

BOTH a
> ambient light level sensor AND wiper use as the light "activation

triggers".
> Often when the snow is dry or it's foggy, wipers aren't always

required. So
> they can't trigger the lights to come on. Also, if it's daylight, it
> *might* be dark enough to trigger then lights, but often it isn't. So

what
> other mechanism could "activate" the real lights *reliably* in those
> situations (except a manual switch controlled by the driver)? If you

have a
> idea, let the car companies know. So far thay haven't found a "auto"

system
> that actually works properly yet.
>
> >
> > So many idiots ignore the law here in Texas which says that you

should
> > activate your headlights in rain, after legal dark, etc. Many never

do it
> > except in darkest night..

>
> That's because many actually think that they're "auto" headlight

system
> really works (because the salesman told them so...gee wiz!) and they

don't
> turn their light on themselves (probably never do)...yet it only works
> reliably in the "darkness of night". There you have it.
>
> >
> > There are kits available which reduce the current to the headlights

and
> > turn
> > on lights whenever the key is on, BUT I don't think these activate
> > taillights.
> >
> > I was thinking about homebrewing a system, but will continue to just

turn
> > on
> > my headlights manually for the time being.
> >
> >

>
>




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  #26  
Old April 25th 05, 05:26 PM
Steve
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Frank wrote:

> I leave the lights on all the time on my car. They go off when I kill
> the ignition and open the door; they go back on when I start the car.
> I feel it increases my conspicuity, and it hurts nothing. I'm happy.
> I do about 30,000 miles a year in that car.
>
> My wife's car, which I drive rarely, does not handle the lights like
> that, so I've been known to drive in the rain without lights. I
> usually remember, but not every single time. Steve will say that my
> brain is separated from reality at the time, and that might be true,
> but habit is a powerful force.
>
> Yet, some people run around with this brain-reality separation a large
> percentage of the time. I also agree with HLS -- many people just
> don't give a damn. Would switching the lights on with the wipers make
> people stupid? I don't think they would any more than automatic
> tranmissions, anti-lock brakes, safety glass, air bags, seat belts, or
> any of the other built-in safety or convenience devices already in use.
> What they would do is ensure that the lights go on with the wipers
> whether the A-hole behind the wheel wants them on or not.
>


So if the A-hole behind the wheel uses Rain-X and never turns on his
wipers, then what? What about when a driver turns his wipers on to clean
the windshield, but (oops!) had his high-beams on last night and so now
he blinds everyone driving toward him in total blissful ignorance?

Increasing automation only aggravates the problem, and no I don't see it
as the same as autmoatic transmissions or (for heaven's sake!) safety
glass at all. None of the things you mentioned relieve the driver of the
basic requirements of operating the vehicle properly.
  #27  
Old April 26th 05, 04:16 AM
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
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Default

HLS wrote:
>
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Frank wrote:
> > > A simple switch that would turn the lights on with the wipers would
> > > help. It wouldn't be perfect, but at least most people in those
> > > vehicles wouldn't keep driving around in heavy rainstorms without
> > > lights.
> > >

> >
> > No, a simple connection between the driver's brain and reality is what
> > would help.
> >
> > Turning on headlamps with wipers would cause the same stupidity I see
> > already with ambient-light based automatic headlamps: the idiot driver
> > doesn't pay ANY attention to his headlamps, so when they come on at dusk
> > they often are on high-beam (last used the night before) and the idiot
> > keeps driving around blinding everyone while not even aware that his
> > lights are on.

>


I seem to recall a dimmer switch design that operated as follows: The
dimmer switch, a stalk to the right of the steering wheel was a
momentary contact device. Push it forward and it engaged a latching
relay to select high beams. Pull it back and it released the latch. When
the headlights were turned off, the latching relay (powered from the
same source) dropped into the low beam position.

This was many years ago on some European car and I've never seen this
setup since. Too bad.

If one needs tactile feedback from the position of the dimmer switch, it
shouldn't be too much trouble to incorporate an electromagnetic latch to
hold the dimmer switch position.

--
Paul Hovnanian
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